Tavares vs Karlsson (San Jose)

[IPS]

You just said you add McDavid because hes better than Doughty.

But you don't add Karlsson even though hes better than Tavares?

your logic is all over the place. are you a leafs fan?

You actually think the gap between McDavid and Doughty is even remotely comparable to the gap between Karlsson and Tavares? Oh boy...

And besides, you refuse to address my argument. San Jose would have benefited more from Tavares than Karlsson due to them needing a C more. Are you denying this?

 

[Agent Zub]

You actually think the gap between McDavid and Doughty is even remotely comparable to the gap between Karlsson and Tavares? Oh boy...

And besides, you refuse to address my argument. San Jose would have benefited more from Tavares than Karlsson due to them needing a C more. Are you denying this?

yea lol the gap between Karlsson and Tavares might be even bigger

are you a leafs fan? genuinely curious

 

[Falco Lombardi]

I mean Karlsson is a better player but Tavares would have made the Sharks a better team due to being a bigger upgrade at a position of need.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

If Karlsson resigns with the sharks than him. Otherwise Tavares IMO

 

[Juxtaposer]

Chances are if Tavares agreed to go to San Jose they never end up trading for Karlsson. So at the time the Sharks wanted Tavares instead of him.

At the time, those of us who preferred Tavares did so because we assumed that to get Karlsson, we’d have to part with Hertl++ or Meier+++ to get him. Knowing how little we actually gave up to get Karlsson now, you’d be hard-pressed to find many Sharks fans who still would prefer Tavares.

Kane-Tavares-Pavelski
Hertl-Couture-Donskoi
Meier-Thornton-Labanc
Karlsson-Tierney-Sorensen

Vlasic-Braun
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-DeMelo

vs.

Kane-Thornton-Pavelski
Hertl-Couture-Donskoi
Meier-Suomela-Labanc
Goodrow-Chartier-Sorensen

Vlasic-Karlsson
Ryan-Burns
Dillon-Braun


Take your pick. Bottom one looks better to me.

 

[LeafsNation75]

That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing about simple team composition just like the OP is asking. Sharks already had a great blueline before Karlsson, a center is what they need. Karlsson was obviously plan B and Tavares was plan A seeing as they put 13 million per year on the table to sign him. None of this is even up for debate.

Even if the Sharks fans thought they would have needed to give up Hertl or Meier and some other pieces to get Karlsson, they can not deny that Tavares was still their plan A and Karlsson became their plan B once Tavares choose Toronto.

 

[Tkachuky]

yea lol the gap between Karlsson and Tavares might be even bigger

are you a leafs fan? genuinely curious

Big leafs homer lol.... one of the biggest on here.

 

[Tkachuky]

The way I see it both teams are completely opposite. 1 stacked up front. 1 stacked at D.

I think SJ won’t have issues scoring goals. I can see both Burns and Karlsson around 80P each.

 

[lawrence]

I mean Karlsson is a better player but Tavares would have made the Sharks a better team due to being a bigger upgrade at a position of need.

disagreed. Sharks did not lose Thornton. with the Sharks offence, I would easily taken the option to add the best dman in the world over maybe the 15th best forward in the world.

 

[CrypTic]

Even if the Sharks fans thought they would have needed to give up Hertl or Meier and some other pieces to get Karlsson, they can not deny that Tavares was still their plan A and Karlsson became their plan B once Tavares choose Toronto.

Or, if you look at it from the TDL instead of July 1, Karlsson was our Plan A and Tavares was our Plan B. The Sharks went after Karlsson at the TDL. If that trade had materialized it would have been difficult to afford Tavares.

I think DW went all in to get the best player he could. When he had the chance to get Karlsson, both at the TDL and now, he did his best to trade for him. When he had the chance to sign Tavares, he did his best to sign Tavares. I wouldn't read much into the timing bc when the Sharks had the chance to get either one, they did their best to get that player. It just so happened that EK was potentially available at the TDL, Tavares was potentially available on July 1st, and EK was again available later this summer.

 

[X66]

I disagree.

Except Karlsson is on another tier than John Tavares, who isn’t even remotely close to the top 3 of his given position.

If arguably the best defenseman of this generation isn't on a different tier than a guy who has zero individual awards and has finished top 5 in scoring once in his entire career, I don't know why we even bother with tiers.

I'm not saying Tavares is a better player, but since they've both come into the league, they're way more marquee forwards than there are marquee Dmen, Tavares is competing against guys like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid, the dmen this generation can't stack up to that competition.

How many superstars have had less to work with than Tavares since entering into the league? Yet he still finished 1 point away from winning a scoring title, and was a hart finalist twice.

Since Tavares has come into the league, he's 9th in scoring, 5th in goal scoring, 12th in points per-game(6th amongst full time centers). And that's all playing with garbage compared to the guys ahead of him on those lists...

Tavares is so under appreciated it's pretty crazy, the Islanders robbed him of his true potential.

I still think Karlsson is a better player than Tavares, but his impact to a game isn't on another level, Tavares is an animal.

 

[alg363636]

Karlsson is a better player by a LOT

So him

Plus defense is the more important position

There would be a lot of mental gymnastics to pick Tavares here

 

[LeafGrief]

Karlsson is the better player.

If we want to include contracts and acquisition price, Tavares is the hands-down better add until Karlsson re-signs long term with SJ on a competitive deal. Karlsson is better, but he's not 1 year versus 7 years better.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

lol no contest EK.

top 3 player vs top 15-20.

But obviously in value its Tavares cause he comes with more years but that's not what's in question here.

But EK gives SJ a better one shot at a cup than Tavares does 3-4 chances.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Something else to consider is this. Let's say the Sharks don't win the Cup in 2019 and Karlsson does not sign an 8 year extension, because as of today that has not happened. Won't that make trading for him look like a bad move?

Nope. It would justify the package they gave up and make Wilson look smart. If EK re-signs it will make Wilson look like a mad genius.

 

[CanadienShark]

That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing about simple team composition just like the OP is asking. Sharks already had a great blueline before Karlsson, a center is what they need. Karlsson was obviously plan B and Tavares was plan A seeing as they put 13 million per year on the table to sign him. None of this is even up for debate.

That's not true. Karlsson was not plan B. We went after him at the trade deadline. We were after both Karlsson and Tavares. We have no idea which one the Sharks preferred. Get out of here with your silly assertions.

 

[IPS]

lol no contest EK.

top 3 player vs top 15-20.

But obviously in value its Tavares cause he comes with more years but that's not what's in question here.

But EK gives SJ a better one shot at a cup than Tavares does 3-4 chances.

Not according to how professionals rank them.

 

[GreatGonzo]

People don’t realize that, although getting EK was the much better move and in the long run can be beneficial, it would have been more ideal to have Tavares to fill that top center spot. Thornton, although still good, is only getting older...while Pavelski isn’t the type of player to carry a line. We still need to fill that space still, so the moves still need to be made.

But what is a good point is how EK is a rarity in terms of talent. He’s been one of the best playmakers in the game so he can provide that offense. And the way I see it, maybe his defensive game will get a nice boost and he will further improve by playing on a good team with solid defense to begin with.

In the end, getting EK made us a much more dangerous team because he does fill both of what we need, but going for Tavares was the right move.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

I mean its clearly Tavares, guaranteed 7 years vs. a potential rental. Or are we not factoring this? Not to mention its a position of greater need going forward. Even still, if EK signs he's the better add but factoring in the current circumstances its Tavares AINEC.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I mean its clearly Tavares, guaranteed 7 years vs. a potential rental. Or are we not factoring this? Not to mention its a position of greater need going forward. Even still, if EK signs he's the better add but factoring in the current circumstances its Tavares AINEC.

Its an arguably top 5 player in world, top 3 dmen in the world(arguably top)…. and a 2 x Norris winner

vs

Tavares is a good 1c, elite player... but hes not anywhere near the player karlsson is

Both are roughly same age... its easily karlsson… the sharks didn't make the trade with the idea of not signing Karlsson… he def will be resigned, so that's irrelevant

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Both are roughly same age... its easily karlsson… the sharks didn't make the trade with the idea of not signing Karlsson… he def will be resigned, so that's irrelevant

There is nothing remotely definite about that. I don't know where that's coming from. I hope he does sign and if he does he'll be the answer here. I would be very surprised if he doesn't test the market.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

There is nothing remotely definite about that. I don't know where that's coming from. I hope he does sign and if he does he'll be the answer here. I would be very surprised if he doesn't test the market.

Im willing to bet san jose makes him an offer that makes him not even need to test the open market.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm not saying Tavares is a better player, but since they've both come into the league, they're way more marquee forwards than there are marquee Dmen, Tavares is competing against guys like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid, the dmen this generation can't stack up to that competition.

Using this logic, that there's more superstar forwards than defensemen, thus easier for defensemen to dominate their peers, then I guess Matt Duchene is on the same level as Drew Doughty? After all, Duchene's had to compete with guys like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, McDavid, etc.

Sounds like a cop out to me. Henrik Sedin won a scoring title against those guys. Patrick Kane won a scoring title against those guys. Taylor Hall just won a Hart against those guys. Why couldn't Tavares if he's so good?

How many superstars have had less to work with than Tavares since entering into the league? Yet he still finished 1 point away from winning a scoring title, and was a hart finalist twice.

Since Tavares has come into the league, he's 9th in scoring, 5th in goal scoring, 12th in points per-game(6th amongst full time centers). And that's all playing with garbage compared to the guys ahead of him on those lists...

Tavares is so under appreciated it's pretty crazy, the Islanders robbed him of his true potential.

I still think Karlsson is a better player than Tavares, but his impact to a game isn't on another level, Tavares is an animal.

And how many great players has Karlsson had to play with in Ottawa? It's not like he's had a whole lot surrounding him, either. Their offense has been so bad that Karlsson, as a defenseman, has lead their team in scoring something like 4 or 5 seasons in a row.

And yet playing on bad teams hasn't prevented Karlsson from winning individual awards. But it's an excuse for Tavares' empty trophy case.

 

[LeafsNation75]

lol no contest EK.

top 3 player vs top 15-20.

But obviously in value its Tavares cause he comes with more years but that's not what's in question here.

But EK gives SJ a better one shot at a cup than Tavares does 3-4 chances.

Among players who's position is centre the NHL Network recently ranked Tavares #10 out of 20 centres currently playing in the NHL.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Sounds like a cop out to me. Henrik Sedin won a scoring title against those guys. Patrick Kane won a scoring title against those guys. Taylor Hall just won a Hart against those guys. Why couldn't Tavares if he's so good?

The year Tavares finished 2nd for the Art Ross Trophy to Jamie Benn only happened because Benn scored more points than him on the final night of the regular season. During the Islanders 82nd game Tavares managed 1 goal and 1 assist, so it's not like he didn't win it because he couldn't handle to pressure of needing to put up the points when he had to.