Proposal: Tanev for Drouin

[Shady Machine]

This is weird. Tanev is good, but Drouin is on the cusp of breaking out as a top offensive star. No way Tampa does this.

 

[Rschmitz]

If Tampa finishes with a pick around 4/5 and Vancouver around 9-11, what about Killorn + 1st + 2nd/3rd for Tanev + 1st?

Good deal, we are going to lose Killorn to LV so there's incentive

 

[tjs*]

Good deal, we are going to lose Killorn to LV so there's incentive

I'm still not sure this will happen. If we buy out Callahan and move Filppula and Garrison we can afford to keep Killorn.

 

[HowSweeeedeItIs]

If Tampa finishes with a pick around 4/5 and Vancouver around 9-11, what about Killorn + 1st + 2nd/3rd for Tanev + 1st?

This looks fair to me

 

[Rschmitz]

I'm still not sure this will happen. If we buy out Callahan and move Filppula and Garrison we can afford to keep Killorn.

Those are big IFs. I can't see Yzerman buying out Callahan. Would like to keep Killorn, but also keep in mind he has a full NMC that kicks in after this season so if he's going to make a move it's before July 1st

 

[tjs*]

Those are big IFs. I can't see Yzerman buying out Callahan. Would like to keep Killorn, but also keep in mind he has a full NMC that kicks in after this season so if he's going to make a move it's before July 1st

Right now it looks like Callahan is in that awful middle ground where he's too injured to be effective but not so much as to end his career; at almost $6M per season that is the very definition of an albatross contract. Buying him out saves both real dollars and, for the next three years, a significant amount of cap space; the cap cost the subsequent three years is less than we're paying now for Carle and he will by off the books by then. Unless we can find someone else willing to take him off our hands it's simply the best play we have available to us.

 

[GoodbyeLuongo]

I'm not sure why Canuck fans seem to think we're getting Patrick. We're in a playoff spot right now for godssakes.
I also am not sure why Horvat gets brought up in any discussion. He's a 21 year old all-star who will be our captain when Hank retires. He has more points than Drouin, is a far better defensive player and hasn't had attitude issues.

 

[Rschmitz]

Right now it looks like Callahan is in that awful middle ground where he's too injured to be effective but not so much as to end his career; at almost $6M per season that is the very definition of an albatross contract. Buying him out saves both real dollars and, for the next three years, a significant amount of cap space; the cap cost the subsequent three years is less than we're paying now for Carle and he will by off the books by then. Unless we can find someone else willing to take him off our hands it's simply the best play we have available to us.

If we only plan on remaining competitive for the next three years than sure. The following three seasons that dead cap space is going to be terrible to deal around.

Our best hope is that he rebounds big time. He can then be dealt, his NMC clause becomes a limited NTC in the last two years of his contract.

I hope Yzerman has learned his lesson on handing out big contracts to guys with the style of game Callahan has.

 

[c_robio]

Right now it looks like Callahan is in that awful middle ground where he's too injured to be effective but not so much as to end his career; at almost $6M per season that is the very definition of an albatross contract. Buying him out saves both real dollars and, for the next three years, a significant amount of cap space; the cap cost the subsequent three years is less than we're paying now for Carle and he will by off the books by then. Unless we can find someone else willing to take him off our hands it's simply the best play we have available to us.

Would you buy him out this coming offseason to protect killorn in the expansion draft ? I'm starting to lean that way even though normally he'd probably be given more time to prove himself healthy.

 

[Leonardo87]

Right now it looks like Callahan is in that awful middle ground where he's too injured to be effective but not so much as to end his career; at almost $6M per season that is the very definition of an albatross contract. Buying him out saves both real dollars and, for the next three years, a significant amount of cap space; the cap cost the subsequent three years is less than we're paying now for Carle and he will by off the books by then. Unless we can find someone else willing to take him off our hands it's simply the best play we have available to us.

Honestly, I hope Callahan will be eligible to be a buy out candidate, it would mean he is healthy and can possibly play for another team if he does get bought out. But if he is in that middle ground like you said, he can't be traded or bought out. Right now more concerned about the players career than Tampa's cap. Sorry. Saw the guy get drafted. More realistic to happen is he comes back healthy next two seasons, and gets bought out the final year, or he goes on the LTIR ending his career. Buy out or trade does not seem to be in the cards right now.

As per expansion draft, I see him waiving his NMC in good faith to protect someone like Killorn.

 

[kanucks25]

Good deal, we are going to lose Killorn to LV so there's incentive

Good for Tampa, maybe.

Doubt we'd be interested in Killorn, just based on his age.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I love when people spout off and are quickly hit with the facts to disprove there statements

Witch statement do you mean? I two hate when people don't back up they're statements, there just not two smart when it comes too making arguments. They're grammar is bad to....

 

[tjs*]

If we only plan on remaining competitive for the next three years than sure. The following three seasons that dead cap space is going to be terrible to deal around.

Not nearly as bad as his contract (which if he can't play is dead cap) will be to work around the next few years. Again his buyout saves us $4.73M next season and $2.93M the following two - that will have a far greater impact on our ability to retain key players and stay competitive than a $1.77M cost 4-6 years from now, by which time Carle will be off the books (which again is currently costing us more than Cally's eventual negative cap will) and the cap will have risen. Not only is the cap savings of the next three years far greater than the detriment will be the following three years in real dollars, but assuming even a minimal increase in the cap over those years the difference between the savings and detriment as a percentage of the cap becomes even more skewed in our favor.

Another way to think of it is that we're saving a Palat or a Killorn now for the cost of a Namestnikov in the future. That sounds like a no-brainer to me.

Our best hope is that he rebounds big time. He can then be dealt, his NMC clause becomes a limited NTC in the last two years of his contract.

And the best hope that many people have of becoming multi-millionaires is to win the lottery but that still doesn't make it a smart move. There's a saying that you don't throw good money after bad; continuing to pay Callahan in the hopes that he will a) be able to stay on the ice, and b) be able to rebound to a level where his contract becomes attractive when everybody knew it was an overpayment from the day it was signed is a great example of doing just that. The smart play is to cut our losses while we can still retain somebody who is actually important to our chances of winning a championship.

Basically the only situation in which retaining Callahan makes sense is if we're committing to a 2-year rebuild and are assuming that Killorn will be at the end of his prime and starting to decline by that point. In that case since we're giving up on the present anyway we might as well hang onto Cally another year or so in order to minimize his eventual buyout. If we hang onto him another year the cap savings the following two years would be $3.13M (a $200k increase compared with buying him out this summer) and the detriment to the cap would be $1.57M (a $200k decrease) for two years instead of three.

 

[Rschmitz]

And the best hope that many people have of becoming multi-millionaires is to win the lottery but that still doesn't make it a smart move. There's a saying that you don't throw good money after bad; continuing to pay Callahan in the hopes that he will a) be able to stay on the ice, and b) be able to rebound to a level where his contract becomes attractive when everybody knew it was an overpayment from the day it was signed is a great example of doing just that. The smart play is to cut our losses while we can still retain somebody who is actually important to our chances of winning a championship.

I couldn't think of a worse way to try and become a multi-millionaire than to play the lotto.

If you believe Callahan has those kind of odds of ever contributing, I'll happily take that bet.

 

[CHaracter79]

I love when people spout off and are quickly hit with the facts to disprove there statements

so drouin producing at nearly a ppg more is not a big difference? not to mention that horvat has averaged almost a minute more icetime per game throughout his career.

 

[tjs*]

I couldn't think of a worse way to try and become a multi-millionaire than to play the lotto.

If you believe Callahan has those kind of odds of ever contributing, I'll happily take that bet.

This is precisely my point: hanging onto Callahan in the hopes that his contract will ever become attractive to another team is like playing the lottery to become a multi-millionaire. Yeah, it could happen, but you're far more likely to just be throwing money away.

 

[Rschmitz]

This is precisely my point: hanging onto Callahan in the hopes that his contract will ever become attractive to another team is like playing the lottery to become a multi-millionaire. Yeah, it could happen, but you're far more likely to just be throwing money away.

Odds of winning the lottery are under 1 in 5 million

Sorry, but I can't agree with your hyperbole. I'll take the bet that Callahan recovers from injury, contributes, and isn't bought out.

 

[PG Canuck]

I'm not sure why Canuck fans seem to think we're getting Patrick. We're in a playoff spot right now for godssakes.
I also am not sure why Horvat gets brought up in any discussion. He's a 21 year old all-star who will be our captain when Hank retires. He has more points than Drouin, is a far better defensive player and hasn't had attitude issues.

We're also 4 points out of 28th in the NHL. Playoff spot or not, it means nothing. This team has a hard couple months ahead for them with no cushion for error.

 

[Rschmitz]

...on second thought, I'll bet you a dollar that Callahan plays well enough to warrant a trade if you want to use the lottery odds.

 

[Leonardo87]

Odds of winning the lottery are under 1 in 5 million

Sorry, but I can't agree with your hyperbole. I'll take the bet that Callahan recovers from injury, contributes, and isn't bought out.

Knowing Callahan he will fight this and will try and get back healthy, and hope he does. The buy out number is too large especially with Carle already on the books, it is just a bad business decision. I respect tjs opinion but just because players are strugging you don't keep buying them out and give out buy outs like candy. You work with the player and make the best. Plus it's not struggle or a slump he is legitimately injured.

 

[tjs*]

Odds of winning the lottery are under 1 in 5 million

Sorry, but I can't agree with your hyperbole. I'll take the bet that Callahan recovers from injury, contributes, and isn't bought out.

Fair enough. I just think with this hip injury that he can't seem to shake combined with his playing style that he will never again reach the point where somebody wants to give him anywhere near $5.8M; you are obviously more optimistic. Guess we'll see - hopefully you'll be right.

 

[tjs*]

Knowing Callahan he will fight this and will try and get back healthy, and hope he does. The buy out number is too large especially with Carle already on the books, it is just a bad business decision. I respect tjs opinion but just because players are strugging you don't keep buying them out and give out buy outs like candy. You work with the player and make the best. Plus it's not struggle or a slump he is legitimately injured.

I respect your opinion as well. I do want to point out that Callahan's buyout actually saves us money while Carle's buyout is on the books - it doesn't actually start costing us until Carle comes off the books, and even then it would be less than Carle is costing us now.

And your last sentence says it all for me: I simply don't think he's ever going to recover from this injury and become a remotely productive player again. If he were merely struggling I wouldn't be suggesting this course of action. Again, I would love for you guys to be right and for him to come back and be worth losing a guy like Killorn over; I just don't see any chance of that happening.

Anyway I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Rschmitz]

Fair enough. I just think with this hip injury that he can't seem to shake combined with his playing style that he will never again reach the point where somebody wants to give him anywhere near $5.8M; you are obviously more optimistic. Guess we'll see - hopefully you'll be right.

I was a terrible deal the day of the signing and looks worse now, I hope no one would argue otherwise. I just think he'll play well enough to not warrant the huge negative impact of a buy out.

 

[Breakers]

Tanev does not have the value to bring in a player like Drouin. Tampa laughs at this.

Ahh yeah he does

 

[NickLidstrom]

Tanev is a good player.
Drouin has the potential to be a great player. No one makes a trade like this.