GDT: Tampa @ Anaheim

[Quack Shot]

Didn't even realize Stoner only played 10 minutes. Fowler 26. Manson 16. Vatanen, Bieksa, and Lindholm 22. That's kind of weird.

Fowler should play 60 minutes on both sides of the ice

 

[SmokeyDuck]

Cam Fowler looks like Peter Pan.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

The "if we play like this we'll win a lot of games" narrative bothers me because they're not creating high quality scoring chances, not even close compared to last season.

 

[Mr Rogers]

The "if we play like this we'll win a lot of games" narrative bothers me because they're not creating high quality scoring chances, not even close compared to last season.

Yup. Tired of hearing it. It's been being said for some time and they have yet to get a streak going.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

2 more years of stoner and bieksa could cost us vatanen, fowler or lindholm this summer...hate to beat the dead horse but this team is completely mismanaged..you have an offensive coach, with a non offensive roster. it's not going to work

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Yup. Tired of hearing it. It's been being said for some time and they have yet to get a streak going.

Both things are kind of true, though. They've played very well the last few games, it's encouraging. If they do that consistently they WILL win a lot of games.

The problem is that they have to. They need to play about .650 hockey the rest of the way to make the playoffs, no more slumps. Every loss essentially requires two wins in order to keep pace. Even playing well, that's hard, especially when you can't finish against the better teams. This is why the "no time to panic" ******** was exactly that.

 

[Duck Off]

I think Kesler's problem is term not dollar figure so i don't think that hurts us this year or in our supposed Cup window.

Now Silfverberg's deal looked solid at the time too and I would argue you can get away with Cogliano too but Hagelin is a bad contract and Palmieri would be much better. That's blame Murray deserves.

I agree about Kesler. $$ is fine, but I was disagreeing with the notion that all GMs would have given him that contract.

I was fine with Silfverberg and Cogliano's contract, and I'm still fine with both. However, if Murray wanted Hagelin, then one of those guys needed to be traded for an actual scorer. Hagelin is a less effective, more expensive Cogliano, and he's never shown he's more than that. I thought/think Hagelin is a solid player, but he was a pathetically bad replacement for one of the only finishers we had on the team. I'm not sure what type of **** Murray was using this offseason but it messed him up bad, because he downgraded this team severely.

Just look at these stupidly bad moves.

Bieksa replaces Beauchemin
Hagelin replaces Beleskey
Stewart replaces Palmieri

Horcoff was a solid addition, and I don't think Stewart is that bad, but I do think we could use Palmieri more than him right now.

 

[Duck Off]

You are dead wrong that any GM would have given Kesler that contract. That was a disaster waiting to happen from the second he signed it, even I called it when it happened (not trying to brag - I'm usually wrong). It is ridiculous to say signing a 31 year old player to a 6 year extension a year before he was set to become a UFA is something "any GM would have done". Kesler wasn't even an elite offensive gamebreaker in the first place. He has now declined into probably a 40 point player at his peak for the rest of his time here. Brilliant

The Perry and Getzlaf contracts are whatever. They're two of the best players in franchise history and had to be re-signed. No complaints about that.

Our idiot Gm should have surrounded them with better talent when they were in their primes. Instead we saved all our prospects until their values declined to a 2nd round pick, and here we are. They're now both past their prime and the support around them has also gotten worse

I won't even get into the crazy amount of $$ he's spending on 10 goal scorers and bottom pairing defensemen

I've been saying this for the last 3 or 4 years. Funny how silent the guys who were quick to back Murray then are now.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

You are dead wrong that any GM would have given Kesler that contract. That was a disaster waiting to happen from the second he signed it, even I called it when it happened (not trying to brag - I'm usually wrong). It is ridiculous to say signing a 31 year old player to a 6 year extension a year before he was set to become a UFA is something "any GM would have done". Kesler wasn't even an elite offensive gamebreaker in the first place. He has now declined into probably a 40 point player at his peak for the rest of his time here. Brilliant

The Perry and Getzlaf contracts are whatever. They're two of the best players in franchise history and had to be re-signed. No complaints about that.

Our idiot Gm should have surrounded them with better talent when they were in their primes. Instead we saved all our prospects until their values declined to a 2nd round pick, and here we are. They're now both past their prime and the support around them has also gotten worse

I won't even get into the crazy amount of $$ he's spending on 10 goal scorers and bottom pairing defensemen

this point cannot be hammered home enough, there was a 5 year period where they were on absolute bargain deals and there was a total failure to surround them with talent, murray chose to "rebuild on the fly" which probably took as long as a normal rebuild would have

 

[OCSportsfan]

I agree about Kesler. $$ is fine, but I was disagreeing with the notion that all GMs would have given him that contract.

I was fine with Silfverberg and Cogliano's contract, and I'm still fine with both. However, if Murray wanted Hagelin, then one of those guys needed to be traded for an actual scorer. Hagelin is a less effective, more expensive Cogliano, and he's never shown he's more than that. I thought/think Hagelin is a solid player, but he was a pathetically bad replacement for one of the only finishers we had on the team. I'm not sure what type of **** Murray was using this offseason but it messed him up bad, because he downgraded this team severely.

Just look at these stupidly bad moves.

Bieksa replaces Beauchemin
Hagelin replaces Beleskey
Stewart replaces Palmieri

Horcoff was a solid addition, and I don't think Stewart is that bad, but I do think we could use Palmieri more than him right now.

I liked most of his moves until this year, but it is not like he has destroyed the team. I thought they played a better game than Tampa, just did not win the game.

As far as your "bad" moves
He had to decide between Palmieri and Silf because they were both 2nd line RW. I was in the Palmieri camp until the playoffs then Silf outplayed him. He did not bring in Stewart to replace him, Silf is supposed to be him. Stewart was brought in to be a depth scorer with upside to replace Etem (who we traded for the next guy)

Hagelin for Beleskey was where he fell short. Our offer for Beleskey was as good as Boston, he just did not accept it. That is not BM fault. Although I like the Cogs - Horcoff -Hagelin line, I am not sure Hagelin could play 2nd line, so that was a miss.

Bieksa for Beauch - There are two parts for this IMO. I was okay with letting Beauch go if he wanted a 3 year deal. I think his play started to decline. I just would not have traded for Bieksa. Either let the young players play (make a trade at deadline), or trade for a better player. Just not sure Bieksa plays a smart enough game.

He rolled the dice with Hagelin, but you forget that he also traded DSP for Sekac. There was hope that he would be the 2nd line LW.

At some point, the players have to take advantage of the opportunities and the coach has to guide them. The Ducks have enough good players who still have upside.

IMO since we moved Bieksa with Fowler and Manson with LIndholm, the D has looked much better. Additionally with the move to LW by Rakell and Horcoff with Cogs and Hagelin, the offense has looked much better.

Ducks are still 2nd or 3rd to win the Stanley cup in Vegas, so lets not start planning the rebuild yet.

 

[OCSportsfan]

this point cannot be hammered home enough, there was a 5 year period where they were on absolute bargain deals and there was a total failure to surround them with talent, murray chose to "rebuild on the fly" which probably took as long as a normal rebuild would have

The Ducks may have had a 5 year window with those guys in their prime, but in no way was that team going to compete during that time with what Burke did to the prospects. You cant just buy FA and expect them to work to win a cup otherwise everyone would do it. You have to fill the team with younger players (who contribute) on cheap contracts and the Ducks did not have anyone. Last year was the first legitimate chance to win the cup in the last 5 years and it was because BM had the younger players on good contracts and make the key trade for Kesler. I wont even bring up RC as a problem that was also fixed by BM.

You may think it was a rebuild on the fly, but in reality it was a full rebuild other than Getz/Perry. How many players were on the team five years ago and now.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Goalie's no longer in the League, facing shots want equipment made smaller? Color me surprised! Roy doesn't have any records he doesn't want broken does he? Right. Another "Appeal to Authority".

And as for Hazy? He was a meatpuppet as a goalie, and his Jennings were "earned" riding the bench behind Roy. Lol. No ax to grind by him whatsoever...

Edit: and goalie coaches, systems, and Defense first coaching might have far more to do with lower gga's than you are giving them credit for.

And yet in all this goalie equipment talk, other teams seem to be able to score enough to win. Do their goalie's wear bigger equipment than ours?

I don't recall saying that I was only saying this because we can't score. I also don't recall saying it was the only thing that needed to change. I also don't recall saying Hazy was the guy I was parroting. It's interesting to note that said "meat puppet" still has faced a hell of a lot harder shots than you have, with worse padding, and seems to have emerged from it with the opinion that the injury risk argument isn't a real one.

Stop with the "appeal to authority" nonsense. You're trying to use yourself as an authority when you don't actually play at anywhere near that level, and discount the opinions of everyone who actually has. You're seriously arguing that Roy just wants his records safe? That's an interesting take on it. Because unless you're saying he just wants to get goalies injured, you're admitting that shrinking the pads will help more goals be scored. Make your mind up.

 

[Vipers31]

The last time the league reduced the size of pads, goalies became no less effective. Don't know if there's significant amount of hope to be put into that to increase scoring. The league absolutely could put tougher restrictions on the thigh-rise on pads, but for some reason, they outlawed the flaps on the inside of the pad which protected the knee, so that the extended thigh-rise suddenly did become a factual safety concern. I would like to know if Hayward is taking that into consideration, because it tends to be overlooked. I'd be all for reducing the thigh-rise and giving the protective flap back, which isn't doing nearly as much to prevent scoring. In terms of width, I don't think there's too much left to reduce on pads.

The next best target for reduction would be chest protector, and particularly the ones designed to rise way above the collarbone. It is a safety concern, and you will see a few more goalies sidelined with injuries from touching anything up there especially, but that risk is relatively small.

 

[Duck Off]

I liked most of his moves until this year, but it is not like he has destroyed the team. I thought they played a better game than Tampa, just did not win the game.

The problem is that he had a team that was extremely close, and decided to screw with key pieces. I could live with him wanting to improve key pieces, but anyone that knows ANYTHING about hockey should have known that Bieksa was nowhere near Beauchemin's level. It was also painfully obvious that we lacked finishers on this team, and he let's one walk and brings in another speedy small grinder to replace him. That's just asinine on so many levels.

As far as your "bad" moves
He had to decide between Palmieri and Silf because they were both 2nd line RW. I was in the Palmieri camp until the playoffs then Silf outplayed him. He did not bring in Stewart to replace him, Silf is supposed to be him. Stewart was brought in to be a depth scorer with upside to replace Etem (who we traded for the next guy).

I think it was pretty clear based on early lines that he was brought in to fill the 3rd line RW spot that Palmieri once had. I guess that's debatable though.

Hagelin for Beleskey was where he fell short. Our offer for Beleskey was as good as Boston, he just did not accept it. That is not BM fault. Although I like the Cogs - Horcoff -Hagelin line, I am not sure Hagelin could play 2nd line, so that was a miss.

First, we didn't offer something as good as Boston did. Beleskey said the NMC and 5 years were the kicker. We offered him a 4 year, 4 million deal according to a few sources to the Ducks. The NMC was the key because of the expansion draft that's almost certain to happen. Second, I'm fine if Murray didn't think Beleskey was worth that. However, replacing him with another Cogliano was a complete **** up. No other way to say it.

Bieksa for Beauch - There are two parts for this IMO. I was okay with letting Beauch go if he wanted a 3 year deal. I think his play started to decline. I just would not have traded for Bieksa. Either let the young players play (make a trade at deadline), or trade for a better player. Just not sure Bieksa plays a smart enough game.

Like the Beleskey situation, I too was fine if he didn't want Beauchemin, as long as we upgraded. When you're so close, you make small upgrades, not giant downgrades. Anyone who watched Bieksa the past few years SHOULD know that he was nowhere near Beauchemin's level, even the Beauchemin who struggled in the playoffs. The difference in salary does not justify making the move from Bieksa to Beauchemin. It's actually sickening to even think Murray thought they were close.

He rolled the dice with Hagelin, but you forget that he also traded DSP for Sekac. There was hope that he would be the 2nd line LW.

Sekac for DSP has been nothing more than a lateral move. No reason Murray should be banking on "maybe" players when we're that close.

At some point, the players have to take advantage of the opportunities and the coach has to guide them. The Ducks have enough good players who still have upside.

At some point, Murray needs to wasting the primes of Getzlaf, Perry, and Kesler, and address his roster correctly. At some point, he needs to stop spending millions on bottom pairing defenseman like Stoner, Bieksa, Allen, etc... and spend money on the positions that we need it most. It took what? 5 years to address the 2nd line center spot? At some point, Murray needs to realize our time is now, and spend the assets required to get us over the hump. We needed a top 6 winger the offseason before this past one, and the need for one this last offseason was even more evident. Oh well, let's add another speedy 3rd liner shall we?

IMO since we moved Bieksa with Fowler and Manson with LIndholm, the D has looked much better. Additionally with the move to LW by Rakell and Horcoff with Cogs and Hagelin, the offense has looked much better.

Fowler is playing the best hockey of his career so he's been able to help with some of the absolute **** that is known as Kevin Bieksa. The defense has been better (although not against Tampa) lately because Fowler and Vatanen have taken a step. If we had Beauchemin instead of Bieksa, it'd be far better than it is now. Hell at least maybe Lindholm would be playing somewhat similar to last year (although I thought he played decent after the first 5 minutes of the Tampa game).

Ducks are still 2nd or 3rd to win the Stanley cup in Vegas, so lets not start planning the rebuild yet.

No one is planning the rebuild. This team has the talent to make the playoffs. Even with the ****ups that Murray created. However, there's not a chance in hell this team goes as far last year with the way it's constructed now.

 

[McDonald19]

Shouldn't the home team be able to dictate the style of game? Why were we playing run and gun pond hockey with the Lightning? Have to blame that on Boudreau.

Athletic 6'7 goalies aren't good for the game of hockey.

 

[Vinegar Strokes]

#MoralVictories. I didn't know hiring Eakins meant we'd be adopting their baby steps mantra.

 

[McDonald19]

As far as your "bad" moves
He had to decide between Palmieri and Silf because they were both 2nd line RW. I was in the Palmieri camp until the playoffs then Silf outplayed him. He did not bring in Stewart to replace him, Silf is supposed to be him. Stewart was brought in to be a depth scorer with upside to replace Etem (who we traded for the next guy)

Hagelin for Beleskey was where he fell short. Our offer for Beleskey was as good as Boston, he just did not accept it. That is not BM fault. Although I like the Cogs - Horcoff -Hagelin line, I am not sure Hagelin could play 2nd line, so that was a miss.

He rolled the dice with Hagelin, but you forget that he also traded DSP for Sekac. There was hope that he would be the 2nd line LW.

The thing is Palmieri could also fill in nicely on 1st line left wing. He also was given away for a weak return.

Beleskey's agent was greedy and wanted $5mil per for his client. Once the Ducks said goodbye the agent was forced to take the best offer available. Beleskey burned his bridge back to Anaheim. The situation was bad for both sides.

I don't like either DSP or Sekac. DSP is slightly more useful as a 3rd/4th liner. Sekac is boom or bust. Maybe his dangling will turn into goals someday.

 

[Vinegar Strokes]

I think letting go of Belesky was the right idea. To me, he's clearly a player that capitalized on a career year. I don't think he'll come close to those type of numbers again.

Palmieri though, that one stings. Not only was the return weak, but we lost one the few players who could create offense and finish the chances he creates, though he was incredibly inconsistent.

I think Sekac is underrated by some and overrated by others. As I said quite some time ago, it's nice that he can create offense on his own, that's a valuable skill, but I was never convinced that he'd ever be able to finish, and I'm even more skeptical now.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

The thing is Palmieri could also fill in nicely on 1st line left wing. He also was given away for a weak return.

Beleskey's agent was greedy and wanted $5mil per for his client. Once the Ducks said goodbye the agent was forced to take the best offer available. Beleskey burned his bridge back to Anaheim. The situation was bad for both sides.

I don't like either DSP or Sekac. DSP is slightly more useful as a 3rd/4th liner. Sekac is boom or bust. Maybe his dangling will turn into goals someday.

Last year Sekac played exactly like Rakell did last year. It was his first full season on NHL ice as well, people need to relax I remember everyone saying Rakell wasn't going to amount to anything more than a 3C because he was stick handling too much and trying to be too fancy. People always brought up how he wasn't a goal scorer at any level and how he couldn't finish as well.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I didn't think Bishop was stellar TBH. Ducks just didn't create enough high quality scoring chances, they did carry the play (especially in 3rd), but the high quality scoring chances are sorely missing.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

That Perry post at the end of the game was a heartbreaker.

 

[McDonald19]

Last year Sekac played exactly like Rakell did last year. It was his first full season on NHL ice as well, people need to relax I remember everyone saying Rakell wasn't going to amount to anything more than a 3C because he was stick handling too much and trying to be too fancy. People always brought up how he wasn't a goal scorer at any level and how he couldn't finish as well.

Rakell just needed to get stronger. Unfortunately it's a bit different with Sekac. I hope he proves me wrong. We need goal scoring badly.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

That Perry post at the end of the game was a heartbreaker.

I thought Horcoff having a fourth of the net open and throwing the puck just at the end of the goalie's foot was more heart breaking. That Hag-Hor-Cog is actually a good line that generates chances as well as good offensive puck possession.

 

[AngelDuck]

Last year Sekac played exactly like Rakell did last year. It was his first full season on NHL ice as well, people need to relax I remember everyone saying Rakell wasn't going to amount to anything more than a 3C because he was stick handling too much and trying to be too fancy. People always brought up how he wasn't a goal scorer at any level and how he couldn't finish as well.

Lol you were one of the main people pushing that agenda. Can't remember if it was under this account or your last one

 

[Ducks Nation*]

Lol you were one of the main people pushing that agenda. Can't remember if it was under this account or your last one

No, everyone wished we traded Rakell instead of Bonino and couldn't believe it.