Tallon’s time is up? (2020 edition)

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

I've become to be numb to this argument. There's several teams on a playoff spot that had to overcome numerous injuries to key personnel. Good teams just find a way to win.

I agree, I think you misunderstood my point. You look at the Panthers roster on paper, especially vs NYR or CBJ for example, and the Panthers look a hell of a lot better. But they're worse. So why are they worse? Players haven't delivered imo. It's mostly team structure and defense. Ya Bob is playing like Varlamov here at double the salary but it's still not what's killing the team like last year.

 

[Dread Clawz]

He’s not a pretty good GM. Results say otherwise. He should be fired the day after the season. He was not the guy to get Chicago over the hump. He may be the person to assemble the foundation but he’s not the guy to finish the job.

He's made a lot of good trades. Most of his trades are wins. His drafting has been average. His fa signings have been about average, maybe slightly below, depending on who you ask. He took a team that was the joke of the nhl and made it into at least a respectable team that has a shot at the playoffs every year. The team went from bare cupboards to a pretty good prospect pool. Florida was ranked in the top half of the league last summer on hf. We've made the playoffs 2 times in 10 years, but couldve potentially made it 3 more times. Once, if ownership doesnt interfere and "promote" him in 16-17, and a couple rolls of the dice go differently....maybe one less injury in 17-18 where we missed by a point, and if Lu doesn't age terribly last season, we would have certainly made it. We are only 4 pts out this season, although it looks unlikely. Yeah he has his faults, but overall he's done a pretty decent job given what he's had to work with and where he started from. Yeah, he may not be the gm to put the finishing touches on, but if not, his successor is going to be starting in a much better spot than where Tallon started from.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I agree, I think you misunderstood my point. You look at the Panthers roster on paper, especially vs NYR or CBJ for example, and the Panthers look a hell of a lot better. But they're worse. So why are they worse? Players haven't delivered imo

Just had to elaborate a bit there... Yup, even tho there's a lot of blame going towards Dale, he can't be blamed for (key) players mailing it in. Just a pathetic display of "effort". In a vacuum the lack of high level effort and attention to details would indicate a need for a rebuild. lol rebuild the rebuild.

Maybe the underlying lesson to be learned here might be that a successful team doesn't need every roster spot to be occupied by talented but overtly prideful players at the expense of blue collar, meat 'n potatoes players who mostly go unheralded in this league due to pitiful fancy stats.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

He's made a lot of good trades. Most of his trades are wins. His drafting has been average. His fa signings have been about average, maybe slightly below, depending on who you ask. He took a team that was the joke of the nhl and made it into at least a respectable team that has a shot at the playoffs every year. The team went from bare cupboards to a pretty good prospect pool. Florida was ranked in the top half of the league last summer on hf. We've made the playoffs 2 times in 10 years, but couldve potentially made it 3 more times. Once, if ownership doesnt interfere and "promote" him in 16-17, and a couple rolls of the dice go differently....maybe one less injury in 17-18 where we missed by a point, and if Lu doesn't age terribly last season, we would have certainly made it. We are only 4 pts out this season, although it looks unlikely. Yeah he has his faults, but overall he's done a pretty decent job given what he's had to work with and where he started from. Yeah, he may not be the gm to put the finishing touches on, but if not, his successor is going to be starting in a much better spot than where Tallon started from.

The ownership had the right idea of getting rid off Dale but it just turned out to be a knee jerk reaction due to lack of succession planning, no competent GM candidate ready behind the curtains, another knee jerk reaction in trying to imitate the Pens' championship team, etc. It's like they i.e. Dale and the ownership always overcompensate, it's like "balance" is an unknown concept to them.

One could point their finger at the prospect pool as an evidence of perfectly balanced players but I still see the same unbalanced attitude towards building a team. If they draft speed and (e.g. shooting or passing) skill then that comes at a serious deficiencies at some other category that disqualifies that particular player from ever getting a hold of an NHL roster spot. For instance, Malgin is "skilled" and fast player but he's diminutive player by stature so he's rather easy to brush off from the puck in close quarter battles. Ofc, this is an exaggeration of the issue but maybe Borgstrom can be an indication of new approach to developing players by trying to improve several different skills than focusing just on one or two.

 

[pantherbot]

I don't buy the "it was a tough situation" argument. Tallon is a professional general manager, he makes the big bucks to deal with difficult situations. The fact that Tallon failed is on him.

I do and don't understand this argument at the same time. I understand it because we're all frustrated with this team and Tallon has been the main guy for most of the last 10 years, I get it. But I don't understand how you can ignore that he has had the most difficult GM job around for the past 10 years without exception.

Let's take a look at the other sad sacks in this league.

Ottawa. Definitely a tough place, but back in 2010 they still had Alfredsson, Heatley, Spezza, Karlsson. And say what you want about Melnyk, but at least they've had the same owners.

Edmonton. Tire fire franchise, but they've had way more luck with the draft lottery. And again, Katz may not be ideal, but it's been the same owners.

Buffalo. Again, tire fire, but they also have stable ownership with real money in Pegula.

Arizona. The whole bankruptcy and NHL ownership thing sucked, but they've had great owners since 2013/14 and Chayka's been given free reign.

I dunno what other teams you could compare against, but I will guarantee there is no team that would have been easier to manage than the Panthers.

 

[pantherbot]

The ownership had the right idea of getting rid off Dale but it just turned out to be a knee jerk reaction due to lack of succession planning, no competent GM candidate ready behind the curtains, another knee jerk reaction in trying to imitate the Pens' championship team, etc. It's like they i.e. Dale and the ownership always overcompensate, it's like "balance" is an unknown concept to them.

One could point their finger at the prospect pool as an evidence of perfectly balanced players but I still see the same unbalanced attitude towards building a team. If they draft speed and (e.g. shooting or passing) skill then that comes at a serious deficiencies at some other category that disqualifies that particular player from ever getting a hold of an NHL roster spot. For instance, Malgin is "skilled" and fast player but he's diminutive player by stature so he's rather easy to brush off from the puck in close quarter battles. Ofc, this is an exaggeration of the issue but maybe Borgstrom can be an indication of new approach to developing players by trying to improve several different skills than focusing just on one or two.

I think you've touched on the main problem which is ownership and lack of direction. I don't really care who is in charge as GM here, but there needs to be a real plan and willingness to stick to something for more than 2-3 years. These owners aren't much better than the last ones, or the ones prior, just with more money to waste.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

I think you've touched on the main problem which is ownership and lack of direction. I don't really care who is in charge as GM here, but there needs to be a real plan and willingness to stick to something for more than 2-3 years. These owners aren't much better than the last ones, or the ones prior, just with more money to waste.

The ownership can/should direct the ship at the grassroots level via closing/opening the money valve and by hiring the correct GM with the correct plan rather than expressing their view(s) by applying pressure to the GM whenever they please. Viola and Cifu really shouldn't care how the Cats win the SC as long as they win it. When Dale says in front of the mic that all hockey decisions will be made through him so my assumption is that there's no veto rights for the ownership outside of budgeting decisions.

 

[RogerRoger]

But I don't understand how you can ignore that he has had the most difficult GM job around for the past 10 years without exception.
Ottawa. Definitely a tough place, but back in 2010 they still had Alfredsson, Heatley, Spezza, Karlsson. And say what you want about Melnyk, but at least they've had the same owners.
Edmonton. Tire fire franchise, but they've had way more luck with the draft lottery. And again, Katz may not be ideal, but it's been the same owners.
Buffalo. Again, tire fire, but they also have stable ownership with real money in Pegula.
Arizona. The whole bankruptcy and NHL ownership thing sucked, but they've had great owners since 2013/14 and Chayka's been given free reign.
I dunno what other teams you could compare against, but I will guarantee there is no team that would have been easier to manage than the Panthers.

This might be the hottest and most navelgazing take I've read this year. Take a minute and go ask Ottawa fans.

I'm pretty sure ownership told him to dump Smith. There was more going on there than meets the eye.

Yeah, we need conspiracy theories because we can't believe that a man who gave Bolland 5.5x5 and other shitty contracts could make a mistake in talent evaluation.

 

[pantherbot]

This might be the hottest and most navelgazing take I've read this year. Take a minute and go ask Ottawa fans.

I know what's been happening in Ottawa. My point is they started at a much better place in 2010. How can you even argue otherwise?

Melnyk is a cheap shitty owner, but at least he's the same cheap shitty owner. Whoever the GM is will know what he's dealing with. Here? You have no idea what's going to happen in 2 years.

 

[pantherbot]

The ownership can/should direct the ship at the grassroots level via closing/opening the money valve and by hiring the correct GM with the correct plan rather than expressing their view(s) by applying pressure to the GM whenever they please. Viola and Cifu really shouldn't care how the Cats win the SC as long as they win it. When Dale says in front of the mic that all hockey decisions will be made through him so my assumption is that there's no veto rights for the ownership outside of budgeting decisions.

What else is he supposed to say? I don't believe for a second that Viola and co don't have a big say. Why are we constantly asking about how Tallon could have such a soft ass team? That is not his MO. There are other influences in the background.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

What else is he supposed to say? I don't believe for a second that Viola and co don't have a big say. Why are we constantly asking about how Tallon could have such a soft ass team? That is not his MO. There are other influences in the background.

Ofc Dale can tell whatever spin story he wants to sell to the media and fans but fundamentally an owner breathing down your neck as a GM defeats the purpose of having a GM if the owner thinks he can do a better job regardless. Until that whole dynamic is revealed to the public, I'll consider this team as a Tallon product.

 

[pantherbot]

Ofc Dale can tell whatever spin story he wants to sell to the media and fans but fundamentally an owner breathing down your neck as a GM defeats the purpose of having a GM if the owner thinks he can do a better job regardless. Until that whole dynamic is revealed to the public, I'll consider this team as a Tallon product.

Fair enough and I understand that. I just have no trust in these owners based on what I've seen them do here. So many red flags with respect to team management and off-ice decisions. Add to that what we know about their business dealings and it looks worse.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Fair enough and I understand that. I just have no trust in these owners based on what I've seen them do here. So many red flags with respect to team management and off-ice decisions. Add to that what we know about their business dealings and it looks worse.

Sure, and I don't have evidence to prove otherwise either. If the next GM is a guy like Pronger and not some calculator pusher then that increases the probability that they've eased off on the amount of direct control from the ownership.

 

[Dread Clawz]

Yeah, we need conspiracy theories because we can't believe that a man who gave Bolland 5.5x5 and other shitty contracts could make a mistake in talent evaluation.

There's a difference between overpaying a former Cup winner and one of "his " guys, and trading two top 6 players for a 4th round pick. Not even Milbury would have made that move if there wasn't other strings being pulled behind the scenes. Plus, there were rumors on the internet that this was the case.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

John Cena for GM

 

[Jokerit 16]

Nooo.. really? Thank you for this eye opening comment. We didn't know that .. smh

Thanks for supporting comment. I wish good weekend and Happy spring!

 

[RainingRats]

One of the worst GMs in the league. If not the worst GM

 

[FinlandPanther]

One of the worst GMs in the league. If not the worst GM

Great at tanking. Horrible at building a core. Get this loser out of here.

 

[Boothinator]

Get him out of here. Along with Tallas

 

[Panteras]

He really needs to be fired. Specially because this off-season was taunted as a historic and he made an epic gamble which everyone said was a terrible decision and so far it has... it’s been 10 years he’s passed his expiration date.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Get your fat, dumb nose, ass outta here.

Id rather have Big Poppa Pump as our GM.

 

[KW]

Tro was traded to send a message.

Tallon needs to be fired to send a message.

Consistency and character in action.

 

[Chessarmy]

At some point you have to question this “core.” They haven’t won shit. I get that it’s hard to continuously outscore your way out of trouble like they did before the break, but Barkov and Huberdeau fell off a f***ing cliff.

Im on the blow it all up and start over camp. I don’t want to see these guys and their loser faces anymore. It’s a pathetic group.

 

[Haj]

I'm also in the blow it up camp.

It is apparent that Dave Tallon's front office cant evaluate talent, or figure out how much of the cap should be devoted to which part of the roster.

- Bobrovsky was a product of Torterellas commitment to defense, and had a roster with more dependable D and better defensive forwards
- Accari was a good signing, but he won't score 20 goals next year
- Connolly was a decent signing, but he is useless without scoring goals
- Hoffman trade was good
- Matheson contract was bad
- Stralman contract was bad...he is cooked
- Trading McCann was a big mistake. His development was not management well, same with Malgin, Hawrlyuk, and Borgstrom. Prospect development is the biggest issue.

- 2010 draft was awful
- The expansion draft was one of the top 5 worst moves of all time.


We are competing with Boston, Tampa, and Toronto. They make better roster moves, faster. They get better faster. We lag behind planning for some future that will never happen.

Tallon should have traded Trocheck and threw in picks to get Brodin.

Yandle has to go. Stralman has to go.

I try and find Matheson a better partner and salvage him.

Need more forward depth.

Last year, the team thought they were a coach, a goaltender away from being a middle of the pack playoff team. Instead the wheels came off.

Someone's head has to roll.

 

[MintyFresh88]

I'm also in the blow it up camp.

It is apparent that Dave Tallon's front office cant evaluate talent, or figure out how much of the cap should be devoted to which part of the roster.

- Bobrovsky was a product of Torterellas commitment to defense, and had a roster with more dependable D and better defensive forwards
- Accari was a good signing, but he won't score 20 goals next year
- Connolly was a decent signing, but he is useless without scoring goals
- Hoffman trade was good
- Matheson contract was bad
- Stralman contract was bad...he is cooked
- Trading McCann was a big mistake. His development was not management well, same with Malgin, Hawrlyuk, and Borgstrom. Prospect development is the biggest issue.

- 2010 draft was awful
- The expansion draft was one of the top 5 worst moves of all time.


We are competing with Boston, Tampa, and Toronto. They make better roster moves, faster. They get better faster. We lag behind planning for some future that will never happen.

Tallon should have traded Trocheck and threw in picks to get Brodin.

Yandle has to go. Stralman has to go.

I try and find Matheson a better partner and salvage him.

Need more forward depth.

Last year, the team thought they were a coach, a goaltender away from being a middle of the pack playoff team. Instead the wheels came off.

Someone's head has to roll.

Not sure how this core recovers from this season. Huge disappointment. Tallon thinks he’s a genius signing Bob, then bringing in his buddy Q...well, huge miscalculation and it may set back this franchise even further than it already is. Inexcusable and completely unacceptable.

The problem now becomes whether or not you trust ownership to replace Tallon with the right person, or do they even replace him at all? They gave him free reign this past summer to do whatever the hell he wanted...Now they are fully committed, so my gut tells me they may feel like they are stuck with him and his coach and 10 million goalie. Whether they fire him or not, that’s the reality. They can’t get rid of Bob and they sure as heck aren’t going to fire Q and pay him all that money to sit at home.