Confirmed with Link: Sutter out as Flames Coach

[super6646]

Please post the post the direct quotes from Flames personnel/players that say his tenure was toxic and abusive. No Valji/Francis/Seravalli spitballing speculation permitted.

And why do you think those quotes would exist? Weegar and Zadorov and huberdeau themselves have said it was time for a coaching change, and a 15 yr veteran of the team was ready to walk away from the team, but why would any of them air dirty laundry about sutter directly when they are with the team? That itself is more than enough to have an inference…

You are right, there are no quotes and there probably won’t be for years. There are ex-Sutter players that have called to him being a toxic coach too. But hey, you are right, I can’t. So if you wanna take your plausible deniability with you go ahead. But he’s a toxic and abusive coach in this day and age, and there’s more than enough info been put out there to form that opinion.

 

[Kranix]

And why do you think those quotes would exist? Weegar and Zadorov and huberdeau themselves have said it was time for a coaching change, and a 15 yr veteran of the team was ready to walk away from the team, but why would any of them air dirty laundry about sutter directly when they are with the team? That itself is more than enough to have an inference…

You are right, there are no quotes and there probably won’t be for years. There are ex-Sutter players that have called to him being a toxic coach too. But hey, you are right, I can’t. So if you wanna take your plausible deniability with you go ahead. But he’s a toxic and abusive coach in this day and age, and there’s more than enough info been put out there to form that opinion.

Why wouldn't they? Sutter is gone. Weegar didn't hold back, saying Sutter lost the room, finishing off that the altercations with Darryl are fun to look back on. Zadorov and Huberdeau saying it was time for a change = toxicity to you? Huberdeau aired his grievances in his French interview with Hartley. It amounted to him questioning Sutter's handling of Pelletier's first game in the media, acknowledging Sutter told Pelletier he played well and was happy for him. Backlund was ready to walk because they've done nothing in his career. Weegar himself said Backlund and Sutter's relationship was fine. You are projecting. You are selectively ignoring anything that doesn't fit your conclusion because you didn't like his gruffness with the media and Pelletier. Darryl is an old school asshole, that pushes buttons, and doesn't collaborate or let players have any say, certain players spoke to this, so Maloney fired him. You have extrapolated toxicity from Darryl's handling of media members. The atmosphere was surely tense, sad, not fun, because they had a terrible season, and Darryl isn't a guy who could cheer people up in that scenario.

 

[super6646]

Why wouldn't they? Sutter is gone. Weegar didn't hold back, saying Sutter lost the room, finishing off that the altercations with Darryl are fun to look back on. Zadorov and Huberdeau saying it was time for a change = toxicity to you? Huberdeau aired his grievances in his French interview with Hartley. It amounted to him questioning Sutter's handling of Pelletier's first game in the media, acknowledging Sutter told Pelletier he played well and was happy for him. Backlund was ready to walk because they've done nothing in his career. Weegar himself said Backlund and Sutter's relationship was fine. You are projecting. You are selectively ignoring anything that doesn't fit your conclusion because you didn't like his gruffness with the media and Pelletier. Darryl is an old school asshole, that pushes buttons, and doesn't collaborate or let players have any say, certain players spoke to this, so Maloney fired him. You have extrapolated toxicity from Darryl's handling of media members. The atmosphere was surely tense, sad, not fun, because they had a terrible season, and Darryl isn't a guy who could cheer people up in that scenario.

I mean, there is this.

"He made derisive comments, both publicly and privately, seemingly to single out players and in some cases, to embarrass them. In November, the franchise launched an internal investigation to probe an incident after Sutter allegedly made physical contact with a player on the bench during a game"

This isn't the first time an allegation was made of inappropriate physical contact, and its certainly harder to dismiss when the claim is made twice with two different teams.

Flames' Sutter denies abuse allegations from '19

New Flames coach Darryl Sutter addressed allegations made in 2019 that he physically and mentally abused two players while coaching the Kings for the first time, denying that either incident happened.

www.espn.com

I also find it interesting you keep coding his attitude under the phrase "old school." As if that isn't toxic behaviour? What you just described as being an old school asshole who makes life miserable is very much toxic/abusive behaviour in 2023. And if you are going to point out that there are still coaches in the league like that, I would say there is a time our sport should move on.

I don't frankly care about his poor relationship with the media, but I do care about the product on the ice and building a franchise that will retain talent. You say this team had a terrible season, but they only missed the playoffs by 2 pts. I don't remember hearing rumours that none of our pending FAs would re-sign when GGs team missed the playoffs by 11 pts.

You talk about confirmation bias (which yes I very much do have, I do not deny it), but you seem to not acknowledge it the other way. Playing on semantical technicalities doesn't change things. What you are describing is a toxic/abusive coach in all but saying it.

 

[Mobiandi]

Calgary Flames hire a coach that doesn’t lose the room after season #1 challenge - impossible

 

[Volica]

The physical thing is brutal. Hated seeing that. You just can’t have that in any walk of life.

 

[Backlund]

Honestly this Sutter stuff seems like the media and small group of fans angry about some stuff that isn't that big of a deal. I know everyone wants to pin last season's failures on Sutter, but anyone with a bit of sense knows there is more than enough blame to go around. I understand why its all been placed on him but the players shouldn't be let off the hook so easily because of a coach that wasn't nice.

 

[Kranix]

I mean, there is this.

"He made derisive comments, both publicly and privately, seemingly to single out players and in some cases, to embarrass them. In November, the franchise launched an internal investigation to probe an incident after Sutter allegedly made physical contact with a player on the bench during a game"

This isn't the first time an allegation was made of inappropriate physical contact, and its certainly harder to dismiss when the claim is made twice with two different teams.

Flames' Sutter denies abuse allegations from '19

New Flames coach Darryl Sutter addressed allegations made in 2019 that he physically and mentally abused two players while coaching the Kings for the first time, denying that either incident happened.

www.espn.com

I also find it interesting you keep coding his attitude under the phrase "old school." As if that isn't toxic behaviour? What you just described as being an old school asshole who makes life miserable is very much toxic/abusive behaviour in 2023. And if you are going to point out that there are still coaches in the league like that, I would say there is a time our sport should move on.

I don't frankly care about his poor relationship with the media, but I do care about the product on the ice and building a franchise that will retain talent. You say this team had a terrible season, but they only missed the playoffs by 2 pts. I don't remember hearing rumours that none of our pending FAs would re-sign when GGs team missed the playoffs by 11 pts.

You talk about confirmation bias (which yes I very much do have, I do not deny it), but you seem to not acknowledge it the other way. Playing on semantical technicalities doesn't change things. What you are describing is a toxic/abusive coach in all but saying it.

I outlined what i meant by old-school. You're just taking it and running to your conclusion, which as you admitted is your m.o.
Thanks for reminding me, the other reason you're biased. Your opinion that the on-ice product was boring. And here you're using that to illustrate a toxic environment. Yet another big leap on your part. This time it doesn't even make sense. All 7 ufas threatening to leave specifically because of suttee was never confirmed. It was speculated by one guy, and mentioned in an athletic article that no one reporter put their name on.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Honestly this Sutter stuff seems like the media and small group of fans angry about some stuff that isn't that big of a deal. I know everyone wants to pin last season's failures on Sutter, but anyone with a bit of sense knows there is more than enough blame to go around. I understand why it’s all been placed on him but the players shouldn't be let off the hook so easily because of a coach that wasn't nice.

I don’t think the players are being let off the hook. It’s just we almost had a mass exodus of players, including a guy like Backlund who’s been here his whole career, because of the coach. These players got their wish and whoever suits up next year are all out of excuses now as far as I’m concerned.

 

[MM917]

Honestly this Sutter stuff seems like the media and small group of fans angry about some stuff that isn't that big of a deal. I know everyone wants to pin last season's failures on Sutter, but anyone with a bit of sense knows there is more than enough blame to go around. I understand why its all been placed on him but the players shouldn't be let off the hook so easily because of a coach that wasn't nice.

Its always easier to blame the coach as replacing one guy is easy than admitting the team isn't good enough, because you aren't going to have any major changes to the team especially with our owners/management.

 

[Kranix]

The physical thing is brutal. Hated seeing that. You just can’t have that in any walk of life.

What was it?

 

[super6646]

I outlined what i meant by old-school. You're just taking it and running to your conclusion, which as you admitted is your m.o.
Thanks for reminding me, the other reason you're biased. Your opinion that the on-ice product was boring. And here you're using that to illustrate a toxic environment. Yet another big leap on your part. This time it doesn't even make sense. All 7 ufas threatening to leave specifically because of suttee was never confirmed. It was speculated by one guy, and mentioned in an athletic article that no one reporter put their name on.

No, I didn’t. I’m giving one of my reasons why I didn’t like sutter’s tenure here. Check yourself a bit pal, I don’t appreciate the words in my mouth garbage from you.

What was it?

Now you are just being intentionally obtuse.

 

[Kranix]

No, I didn’t. I’m giving one of my reasons why I didn’t like sutter’s tenure here. Check yourself a bit pal, I don’t appreciate the words in my mouth garbage from you.


Now you are just being intentionally obtuse.

Hey, you typed it. Product on the ice. I don't appreciate you accusing me of coding abuse as "old school."
I want to know what the alleged incident actually was. What was the action that the player felt didn't cross the line. It's an honest question.

 

[Rubi]

Hey, you typed it. Product on the ice. I don't appreciate you accusing me of coding abuse as "old school."
I want to know what the alleged incident actually was. What was the action that the player felt didn't cross the line. It's an honest question.

Everybody's line is different, particularly if you're an established veteran or a young rookie or an ageing AHL'er fighting for a job in the NHL. By asking for actual proof of the "alleged incident" you are inferring that perhaps it never happened. We may not have actual proof because we don't know the whole story and nobody so far isn't willing to come out and say exactly what happened and to who and that certainly isn't unusual in hockey's macho culture. However I have no doubt that it did happen as its been reported that there are three separate corroborating witnesses. And, if they witnessed it and remembered it, it must have been a serious event that was out of the norm.

 

[Kranix]

Everybody's line is different, particularly if you're an established veteran or a young rookie or an ageing AHL'er fighting for a job in the NHL. By asking for actual proof of the "alleged incident" you are inferring that perhaps it never happened. We may not have actual proof because we don't know the whole story and nobody so far isn't willing to come out and say exactly what happened and to who and that certainly isn't unusual in hockey's macho culture. However I have no doubt that it did happen as its been reported that there are three separate corroborating witnesses. And, if they witnessed it and remembered it, it must have been a serious event that was out of the norm.

I didn't ask for proof. I asked what happened.

 

[Nanuuk]

Everybody's line is different, particularly if you're an established veteran or a young rookie or an ageing AHL'er fighting for a job in the NHL. By asking for actual proof of the "alleged incident" you are inferring that perhaps it never happened. We may not have actual proof because we don't know the whole story and nobody so far isn't willing to come out and say exactly what happened and to who and that certainly isn't unusual in hockey's macho culture. However I have no doubt that it did happen as its been reported that there are three separate corroborating witnesses. And, if they witnessed it and remembered it, it must have been a serious event that was out of the norm.

Innocent until proven guilty. Innuendo without fact is what a lot of these so-called writers run with. Why? Because it is the raw materials they use to output 'truth' as they see it.

Most often these 'writers' pick up a tweet from someone else and run with it. If two of them repeat the same allegtion, why then it must be true.

 

[Kranix]

Everybody's line is different, particularly if you're an established veteran or a young rookie or an ageing AHL'er fighting for a job in the NHL. By asking for actual proof of the "alleged incident" you are inferring that perhaps it never happened. We may not have actual proof because we don't know the whole story and nobody so far isn't willing to come out and say exactly what happened and to who and that certainly isn't unusual in hockey's macho culture. However I have no doubt that it did happen as its been reported that there are three separate corroborating witnesses. And, if they witnessed it and remembered it, it must have been a serious event that was out of the norm.

What we are seeing here is a classic internet phenomenon. One media member speculating about toxicity, in this case Eric Francis, never considering the weight that word carries with people. Then every half-assed blog just requotes it into an echo chamber until the narrative is manifested. Readers use it as their baseline. Then we have the Katy Strang article. Which is re-blogged by the garbage amateur blogs with the invented tagline "serious allegations." That hockeyfeed headline is clickbait, and irresponsible. You took the bait, and posted it here, irresponsibly. You believed what you wanted to believe. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[Some Other Flame]

Ah yes, the classic anything against Dutter is fake news. What a novel and exciting concept.

And lol at everyone but the Sutter cultists being horribly biased

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Surprised that the organization did not learn from the Bill Peters incident (among others) and simply fired him in November. Not like the team was doing any good. Hell could have stated team performance as the official reason.

 

[Mobiandi]

Surprised that the organization did not learn from the Bill Peters incident (among others) and simply fired him in November. Not like the team was doing any good. Hell could have stated team performance as the official reason.

It’s more bizarre that he was extended around the time things were really going sour. Whether Treliving’s hands were tied or not by ownership, it’s kinda weird that he just let the clock run out on his contract and do nothing

 

[Rubi]

Surprised that the organization did not learn from the Bill Peters incident (among others) and simply fired him in November. Not like the team was doing any good. Hell could have stated team performance as the official reason.

Ownership refusing to allow Sutter to be fired at that time? I suspect that if it hadn't been for the players revolt once the season had ended, Sutter would still.be the HC. This truly is a perfect example of players getting a coach fired.

 

[Some Other Flame]

It's not surprising, it's prototypical Murray Edwards. Offer a premature extension, have dutter go on an ego driven power trip but because of money and optics, do nothing. Then ignore the cancer until it becomes a crisis and only then act.

 

[Kranix]

It’s more bizarre that he was extended around the time things were really going sour. Whether Treliving’s hands were tied or not by ownership, it’s kinda weird that he just let the clock run out on his contract and do nothing

It's always bizarre when the sequence of events and the evidence doesn't fit the invented conclusion. Could it be Treliving wanted to give the team and coach that won the division and jack adams the previous year a bit more rope? I don't think it's absurd to think, despite the media storm, that Tre didn't want to fire a two time cup winning hof coach after 2 seasons equivalent, and turn to his 6th coach in 9 years as GM. But that could just be my Dutter Bias taking over my brain.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

It’s more bizarre that he was extended around the time things were really going sour. Whether Treliving’s hands were tied or not by ownership, it’s kinda weird that he just let the clock run out on his contract and do nothing

Could be why he let the clock run out on his contract.

 

[Body Checker]

The Sutter and Treliving era ended up in such a dark cloud I am glad Conroy and Huska have emerged from that crap show. To tell the truth having some first timers that appear super positive and professional was the way to go rather than retreads like Bowman, Bergevin, Gallant, etc.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Surprised that the organization did not learn from the Bill Peters incident (among others) and simply fired him in November. Not like the team was doing any good. Hell could have stated team performance as the official reason.

Flames ownership will trying absolutely everything else before doing the right thing. At the time they were probably looking at the $8M they still owed Sutter and hoped this would all "blow over".