Confirmed with Link: Sully extended through 22-23 season

[Beauner]

I'm merely stating the fact that the same day Tocchet was named head coach he wrote and article about the Penguins trading Kessel, the same day Madden and others started to beat that drum. That's not a coincidence.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Because he sucked.

30+ point pace when he got to Anaheim. Sure, just awful.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

I've presented actual evidence to how this isn't a coincidence and support my argument. You ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative, refuse to acknowledge it could be true. It's very different than this and to even try to do this is disingenuous.

 

[Ogrezilla]

30+ point pace when he got to Anaheim. Sure, just awful.

And back to being scratched and demoted despite that.

He was our 4th best rw at best. Not sure what you can expect sully to do with him. Spoon feed him opportunities I guess?

 

[Beauner]

I've presented actual evidence to how this isn't a coincidence. You ignore it because it doesn't fit your narrative. It's very different than this.

No you haven't. you've presented 2 events and correlated them using your own narrative and jumping to conclusions. I'm ignoring it because it has no basis in reality

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm not positive I agree with everything you are dishing out, but I love this graphic.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

No you haven't. you've presented 2 events and correlated them using your own narrative and jumping to conclusions. I'm ignoring it because it has no basis in reality

There's a history of the Penguins feeding media talking points. It's an obvious trend through the years. The media has become their mouth pieces, doing their dirty work. The literal day Tocchet leaves the rumors of Phil Kessel trades begin swirling and statements of his lackluster issues in the locker room begin from multiple media sources. Yes, sure. It's all a coincidence and not yet another smear campaign orchestrated by a front office that has a long history of doing this very thing that continued for two years until he was traded.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

I'm not positive I agree with everything you are dishing out, but I love this graphic.

Butter is better for you anyway.

 

[Beauner]

I'm not positive I agree with everything you are dishing out, but I love this graphic.

That's totally ok. There's always gray area. Presenting theories and opinion as fact is when I take issue

There's a history of the Penguins feeding media talking points. It's an obvious trend through the years. The media has become their mouth pieces, doing their dirty work. The literal day Tocchet leaves the rumors of Phil Kessel trades begin swirling and statements of his lackluster issues in the locker room begin from multiple media sources. Yes, sure. It's all a coincidence and not yet another smear campaign orchestrated by a front office that has a long history of doing this very thing that continued for two years until he was traded.

Then why did it take a whole 2 more years until he actually was traded? And you're seriously aguing Ron Cook was acting as a mouthpiece for the organization? On the list of Pittsburgh media the organization would use as a mouthpice he'd be somewhere between Mikey and Big Bob from KISS and myself. Madden I'll grant you, but even if it was being leaked to him, why are you placing the reasoning solely on Sullivan+the loss of Tocchet? Maybe Rutherford just wanted to re-tool using his most valuable, tradeable asset. Maybe he saw hints of deteriorating play (like what we witnessed this year) and wanted to capitalize while his value was sky high?

Why do you immediately point to Sullivan? Because it fits your narrative? You're presenting all of this as fact when literally none of us know the what the whole story is.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

During the 2nd playoff run when Phil went off on the bench (Ott series) DK did a piece about the Tochhet and Kessel relationship. Basically saying Tochett knows how to manage him, talk to him, relates well, etc.

As much as I hated on Sully in this thread the Phil thing wasn't all on the head coach. I will however give him tremendous grief for the way he dealt with Cole and Sprong, essentially running THEM out of town

He could have dealt with Sprong & Cole better.

I'm sure Sully reached his breaking point w/ Phil; some justified (not giving 100% during the reg season) , some not (gambling?)

 

[Shady Machine]

After listening to the Spittin Chiclets podcast, it's pretty clear Tocchet and Kessel have a unique relationship vs other coaches. The concern though is whether that can last with Tocchet as head coach where he can't spend as much time with individual relationships.

Anyway, I think it's fair to blame Kessel for being a tough player to manage, but it's also an indictment on Recchi IMO that he doesn't seem to know how to intervene with players the way Tocchet did. Not sure what that dude is still doing around.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

Then why did it take a whole 2 more years until he actually was traded?

Because Phil has control.

Why do you immediately point to Sullivan?

Because coaches have a problem with Phil. Because Tocchet said Sullivan didn’t know how to talk to Phil. Because Dupuis said Sullivan’s message wasn’t getting through to Phil. Because literally the DAY the guy that could control Phil was gone the media en masse started hit pieces.

 

[froods]

Because Phil has control.



Because coaches have a problem with Phil. Because Tocchet said Sullivan didn’t know how to talk to Phil. Because Dupuis said Sullivan’s message wasn’t getting through to Phil. Because literally the DAY the guy that could control Phil was gone the media en masse started hit pieces.

But isn’t that a negative on Phil? Kudos to Tocchet For being able to manage it. But I don’t think that makes the other coaches the scapegoats for Phils issues.

 

[ImporterExporter]

30+ point pace when he got to Anaheim. Sure, just awful.

Um, I hate to be THAT guy, but 30+ points while being a major liability defensively (IE, your line bleeds more goals than you score) is awful.

Sprong is a one trick pony who wishes he could emulate Phil Kessel.

 

[ImporterExporter]

After listening to the Spittin Chiclets podcast, it's pretty clear Tocchet and Kessel have a unique relationship vs other coaches. The concern though is whether that can last with Tocchet as head coach where he can't spend as much time with individual relationships.

Anyway, I think it's fair to blame Kessel for being a tough player to manage, but it's also an indictment on Recchi IMO that he doesn't seem to know how to intervene with players the way Tocchet did. Not sure what that dude is still doing around.

If only Rick Tocchet had a coaching career and resume the way Recchi had a playing career.

One is not like the other.

I'll let you figure it out.

 

[froods]

Let's not overreact here. There's like 5 posters, tops, in this thread being super critical of the extension. I don't think that qualifies as a large % of this board, let alone enough to make a broad statement about Pittsburgher's.

Sully is an imperfect coach (who isn't?), but given his accomplishments with the team, you have to extend him. He has earned it. Now, this season is a big test for him as presumably he had a hand in reshaping this roster to his liking. If they fall flat on their face again, the pressure on him should rightfully mount.

Look at the poll man. It is ugly.

 

[KIRK]

Look at the poll man. It is ugly.

Holy crap . . .

BTW, I'm not pulling out the party balloons or anything like that, but how in the hell can anyone compare extending Sullivan to Jack Johnson feelings?

 

[froods]

Holy crap . . .

BTW, I'm not pulling out the party balloons or anything like that, but how in the hell can anyone compare extending Sullivan to Jack Johnson feelings?

That’s my thing. He isn’t infallible, but the expectations are just insane.

 

[froods]

During the 2nd playoff run when Phil went off on the bench (Ott series) DK did a piece about the Tochhet and Kessel relationship. Basically saying Tochett knows how to manage him, talk to him, relates well, etc.

As much as I hated on Sully in this thread the Phil thing wasn't all on the head coach. I will however give him tremendous grief for the way he dealt with Cole and Sprong, essentially running THEM out of town

He could have dealt with Sprong & Cole better.

I'm sure Sully reached his breaking point w/ Phil; some justified (not giving 100% during the reg season) , some not (gambling?)

Sprong? Yuck. Sprong could have dealt with himself better.

Cole I agree 100%. I think we pissed away a chance at a 3rd cup with the Brassard deal.

 

[KIRK]

Sprong? Yuck. Sprong could have dealt with himself better.

Cole I agree 100%. I think we pissed away a chance at a 3rd cup with the Brassard deal.

It's the quintessential hindsight comment, but IF the Brassard deal hadn't happened AND IF Malkin and Hagelin hadn't gotten hurt in the Philly series, it's not unreasonable to think the Caps series would've turned out differently. Whether we then beat Tampa and Vegas is another matter.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Holy crap . . .

BTW, I'm not pulling out the party balloons or anything like that, but how in the hell can anyone compare extending Sullivan to Jack Johnson feelings?

Some people thought it was a favourite player poll

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Weird to see the Avs coach get a 2yr extension and then the Pens go full Pejorative Slur earlier with this one.

 

[edog37]

If you would have said that Mike Sullivan was going to lead us to back to back cups the day he was hired, then you're a liar
If you would have said Dan Bylsma is going to beat the mighty Detroit Red Wings 4 months later, you're also a liar
Point is, Sully was a retread coach at that moment. Dan Bylsma's claim to fame was writing a few books

Successful coaches can come from anywhere. The only true miss you can say under Mario's tenure was Johnston, so it's not like this franchise doesn't know how to pick the right horse
But this franchise fails to know when the horse needs to be put out to pasture. They should have canned Bylsma after the Philly debacle, he lasted 1 more year
Johnston should've been fired in the offseason, again the signs were brutally obvious

Now we have people finally figuring out Sully has lost the room. Would not surprise me if 1 year from today we have a new coach

I never made any of those predictions so that’s a moot point. This franchise has had a ton of bad head coaches....Lou Angotti, Gene Ubriaco, Bob Berry, EJ, Mike Johnston to name a few.

That said, I’m curious to know who these “people” are who have figured things out. Are they in the room? Are they in the organization? Or (most likely), some drama queens on a message board who’ve never laced up a pair of skates....

 

[edog37]

All of these examples are over 30 years old. Things aren't what they were 30+ years ago. I've already told you this. Scotty Bowman coached a capless Red Wings for eight years and didn't have a dynasty. Now the cap means they won't exist. Things aren't what they were. You need to adapt.

I’m talking player psychology not cap economics. The latter has changed drastically, the former hasn’t changed one bit.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I never made any of those predictions so that’s a moot point. This franchise has had a ton of bad head coaches....Lou Angotti, Gene Ubriaco, Bob Berry, EJ, Mike Johnston to name a few.

That said, I’m curious to know who these “people” are who have figured things out. Are they in the room? Are they in the organization? Or (most likely), some drama queens on a message board who’ve never laced up a pair of skates....

It's a highly relevant point that you've overlooked: coaches can be successful for this and any other team (Craig Berube was interim coach)

And those coaches you named weren't tabbed under Mario's regime, so I'm unsure why you've even listed them. Mario and Morehouse have for whatever reason been pretty successful in terms of their appointments. They got Therrien correct in that he provided them structure. They got Bylsma right too and of course Sully. The only notable failure was Johnston