Subban Contract Talk VI

[Genesis76]

Why?

GM job = building a winning team.

Failing to secure the best skater ur franchise has had in 20+ years would be an unforgivable and well worth being fired. Gm's routinely get fired for less than that.

yeah but if the team reaches the ecf again, he will definitly not get fired

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Seven is a lucky number, we are quickly approach the seventh Subban thread. It's a sign!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is so dumb.

Keep in mind the context in which this is being said. nobody is saying that if Subban isn't signed for longterm tomorrow that MB should be fired.

The 'what if' scenario being discussed is if we lost Subban (or wound up having to deal him) then MB should be fired. And there's absolutely nothing dumb about that.

It is the GM's responsibility to build winning teams. You can't build winning teams by ****ing around with your best players. He screwed up the first time and that can be forgiven. But to lose Subban now or going forward? Hell no. That is most definitely a fireable offense and to be honest with you, I wouldn't want my team run by a GM who can't get that done.

The whole false choice that I've read on here from some posters (team vs player) is absolutely laughable. The team is made up of these players. Not all are created equal and not all are going to be paid equally. You pay your key guys. You work to keep those key players. And you do this because those are the players you're going to build your team around.

In this thread I'm reading that Chicago won't win cups anymore because they've paid their two big stars a ton of cash... that's what those same posters said the last time around. Chicago's been smart with those guys. Keep them happy, pay them well and then work to fill in the rest of the lineup. You don't **** around with your best players.

As for MB... as I said, I think this will be moot and PK will be signed. If he doesn't get signed though and we lose him? It would be dumb not to fire the GM.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

yeah but if the team reaches the ecf again, he will definitly not get fired

Team won't be able to do it without Subban.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

When you say MB already screwed up once. What are you referring to? Just curious.

Unless you mean subban bridge deal?

Yes I mean the bridge.

 

[Genesis76]

Team won't be able to do it without Subban.

We totally agree, finally

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Keep in mind the context in which this is being said. nobody is saying that if Subban isn't signed for longterm tomorrow that MB should be fired.

The 'what if' scenario being discussed is if we lost Subban (or wound up having to deal him) then MB should be fired. And there's absolutely nothing dumb about that.

It is the GM's responsibility to build winning teams. You can't build winning teams by ****ing around with your best players. He screwed up the first time and that can be forgiven. But to lose Subban now or going forward? Hell no. That is most definitely a fireable offense and to be honest with you, I wouldn't want my team run by a GM who can't get that done.

The whole false choice that I've read on here from some posters (team vs player) is absolutely laughable. The team is made up of these players. Not all are created equal and not all are going to be paid equally. You pay your key guys. You work to keep those key players. And you do this because those are the players you're going to build your team around.

In this thread I'm reading that Chicago won't win cups anymore because they've paid their two big stars a ton of cash... that's what those same posters said the last time around. Chicago's been smart with those guys. Keep them happy, pay them well and then work to fill in the rest of the lineup. You don't **** around with your best players.

As for MB... as I said, I think this will be moot and PK will be signed. If he doesn't get signed though and we lose him? It would be dumb not to fire the GM.

What baffles me about the Chicago comparison is I look at roster and despite their lofty contracts, they are still a juggernaut of a team. The issue for some is a lack of foresight, especially regarding the cap. Chicago did not hand out twin 10.5M without assessing how it will influence further moves, but instead determined a way to balance the future with the present.

Anywho, I agree with your sentiment. Even if Subban does go to arbitration, I suspect there will be a long term deal coming eventually. Hard to say though what effects arbitration might have if it does happen though.

 

[MDN]

I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight

 

[Hoople]

Keep in mind the context in which this is being said. nobody is saying that if Subban isn't signed for longterm tomorrow that MB should be fired.

The 'what if' scenario being discussed is if we lost Subban (or wound up having to deal him) then MB should be fired. And there's absolutely nothing dumb about that.

It is the GM's responsibility to build winning teams. You can't build winning teams by ****ing around with your best players. He screwed up the first time and that can be forgiven. But to lose Subban now or going forward? Hell no. That is most definitely a fireable offense and to be honest with you, I wouldn't want my team run by a GM who can't get that done.

The whole false choice that I've read on here from some posters (team vs player) is absolutely laughable. The team is made up of these players. Not all are created equal and not all are going to be paid equally. You pay your key guys. You work to keep those key players. And you do this because those are the players you're going to build your team around.

In this thread I'm reading that Chicago won't win cups anymore because they've paid their two big stars a ton of cash... that's what those same posters said the last time around. Chicago's been smart with those guys. Keep them happy, pay them well and then work to fill in the rest of the lineup. You don't **** around with your best players.

As for MB... as I said, I think this will be moot and PK will be signed. If he doesn't get signed though and we lose him? It would be dumb not to fire the GM.

The Habs will not lose Subban. Not tomorrow, not a year from now.

I will bet you a Habs sweater that the Blackhawks do not win a Cup in the next three seasons.

Bookmark this page if you are willing to accept that bet.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

What baffles me about the Chicago comparison is I look at roster and despite their lofty contracts, they are still a juggernaut of a team. The issue for some is a lack of foresight, especially regarding the cap. Chicago did not hand out twin 10.5M without assessing how it will influence further moves, but instead determined a way to balance the future with the present.

Anywho, I agree with your sentiment. Even if Subban does go to arbitration, I suspect there will be a long term deal coming eventually. Hard to say though what effects arbitration might have if it does happen though.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Chicago has at least one cap circumventing contract, not unlike LA.

What they pay in cap in Kane and toews they've already saved in hossa and Keith. We don't have that luxury anymore.

 

[Church]

they have until what time tomorrow to make a deal?

 

[HBDay]

The Habs will not lose Subban. Not tomorrow, not a year from now.

I will bet you a Habs sweater that the Blackhawks do not win a Cup in the next three seasons.

Bookmark this page if you are willing to accept that bet.

I already lost my bet for the day... Bet my boss I could cut 90 striploin steaks within 0.3 of 8 ounces up or down. He doesn't drink... So chose Corona for his wife as the beer I would have to pay up... I was hoping he picked PBR.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Chicago has at least one cap circumventing contract, not unlike LA.

What they pay in cap in Kane and toews they've already saved in hossa and Keith. We don't have that luxury anymore.

Even without that luxury, they are still going to ice a rather formidable team, provided some of their prospects turn out. Even if a few don't, they have never had much difficult attracting free agents. The increased cap coupled with many of their albatross contracts coming off the books put them in excellent shape going forward. They may not win a cup again any time so, however that will only be due to the strength of the west. LA and Anaheim in particular are fearsome.

 

[rockjngo]

Is PK Subban the best defenseman in the NHL? NO
Should PK Subban be paid more than Shea Weber? NO
Would you trade PK Subban for Shea Weber? YES

Weber is an all around defenseman. PK is NOT.

 

[Miller Time]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Chicago has at least one cap circumventing contract, not unlike LA.

What they pay in cap in Kane and toews they've already saved in hossa and Keith. We don't have that luxury anymore.

yup.
and if you go back to the Hossa signing, many argued at the time that the habs were right not to be handing out cap circumventing type long term deals…too bad for us and the rest of the league that the people running the hawks and kings didn't share that opinion.


we missed out on a chance to use his RFA status to our advantage 2 years ago (when he was good enough to be worth investing in long term, but not yet accomplished enough to break the bank)… we passed.

we have a chance now to get him long-term at a cap number that is likely to be below "elite player" level in 1-2 years, once the new tv deals kick in and league revenue jumps up.


would be nice for the habs to be making the schrewd/beneficial contract deciisons for once.

 

[Roke]

What baffles me about the Chicago comparison is I look at roster and despite their lofty contracts, they are still a juggernaut of a team. The issue for some is a lack of foresight, especially regarding the cap. Chicago did not hand out twin 10.5M without assessing how it will influence further moves, but instead determined a way to balance the future with the present.

Anywho, I agree with your sentiment. Even if Subban does go to arbitration, I suspect there will be a long term deal coming eventually. Hard to say though what effects arbitration might have if it does happen though.

One of Chicago's big advantages is they've underpaid (at least in terms of cap-hit) their Norris-calibre defenseman for basically his entire career. Montreal had an opportunity to do that with Subban before the new CBA prohibited the long-term but decided to use their point of maximum leverage on a short-term bridge deal.

It would have been risky mind you - Mike Richards is the only guy I can think of who got a super long-term deal coming off an ELC and even that didn't have the bogus late 30s years.

I'm of the mind you take risks to secure star talents as Chicago did, in particularly with the Hossa circumventing contract - that could get ugly later on but it will have been worth it. Meanwhile you play it safe with the bottom of your lineup (go with short-term contracts for your 4th-liners rather than premium dollar 4-year deals)

 

[Habsoil]

yup.
and if you go back to the Hossa signing, many argued at the time that the habs were right not to be handing out cap circumventing type long term deals…too bad for us and the rest of the league that the people running the hawks and kings didn't share that opinion.


we missed out on a chance to use his RFA status to our advantage 2 years ago (when he was good enough to be worth investing in long term, but not yet accomplished enough to break the bank)… we passed.

we have a chance now to get him long-term at a cap number that is likely to be below "elite player" level in 1-2 years, once the new tv deals kick in and league revenue jumps up.


would be nice for the habs to be making the schrewd/beneficial contract deciisons for once.

Tv deals could easily be wiped out by a declining canadian dollar. After all, substantial portions of revenues come from our teams.

 

[CreamOfTheCrop]

they have until what time tomorrow to make a deal?

9am.

 

[lou4gehrig]

Is PK Subban the best defenseman in the NHL? NO
Should PK Subban be paid more than Shea Weber? NO
Would you trade PK Subban for Shea Weber? YES

Weber is an all around defenseman. PK is NOT.

Weber signed his contract his offseason? NO

Your argument is now moot.

 

[CaptainBenn]

A couple of people here worry WAY too much on a millionaire signing a multi-years deal on a July 31th. Seriously. He's going to be signed shortly. There's nothing to worry about.

Im worried

 

[groovejuice]

Is PK Subban the best defenseman in the NHL? NO
Should PK Subban be paid more than Shea Weber? NO
Would you trade PK Subban for Shea Weber? YES

Weber is an all around defenseman. PK is NOT.

Shea Weber is making $14M. Any other wisdom you'd like to pass on?

 

[David Suzuki]

Is PK Subban the best defenseman in the NHL? NO
Should PK Subban be paid more than Shea Weber? NO
Would you trade PK Subban for Shea Weber? YES

Weber is an all around defenseman. PK is NOT.

IF you traded Subban for Weber you'd be a moron

 

[highstick14*]

PK is equivalent to Letang. 7.5Mx8years. Take it or leave it, PK.

 

[highstick14*]

IF you traded Subban for Weber you'd be a moron

If you DIDN'T trade Subban for Weber, you'd be a moron.

Weber + Price, instantly make us a contender.

As good as PK is, Weber is just THAT much better.

 

[groovejuice]

PK is equivalent to Letang. 7.5Mx8years. Take it or leave it, PK.

Letang is not in the same time zone as Subban.

And your negotiation tactics are unique.