Value of: Subban and Turris for a top line center.

[triggrman]

I know I popcorn gif'd my comment but I would hundo P send Subban + Turris to TB for Stamkos + Stralman.

man

Forsberg-Stamkos-Fiala
Tolvanen-Johansen-Arvidsson
Jarkrok-Bonino-Smith
Hartman-Sissons-Watson

Josi-Ellis
Ekholm-Stralman
Hamhuis-Weber

Rinne/Saros.


I'd take that.....

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

No idea why Nashville would do this.

The logic goes:
-Preds have not won yet with their D
-Cup winners generally don't have such strong D groups and have better centers
-Ergo, the Preds can't win with this D group intact

It generally ignores that winning the Cup is just f***ing hard to do, the type of center we need is rarely available and that the loss of relative defensive strength against our competition is probably greater than relative increase in forward strength.

 

[DFC]

man

Forsberg-Stamkos-Fiala
Tolvanen-Johansen-Arvidsson
Jarkrok-Bonino-Smith
Hartman-Sissons-Watson

Josi-Ellis
Ekholm-Stralman
Hamhuis-Weber

Rinne/Saros.


I'd take that.....

You'd probably need Stralman under contract to make it work. But from TB's perspective:

Palat-Johnson-Kucherov
Miller-Point-Gourde
Erne-Turris-Joseph
Killorn-Cirelli-Paquette

Hedman - Sergachev
McDonagh-Subban
Coburn-Girardi/Cernak

I'd be pretty ecstatic with that. In my mind, Point is a #1C, and both Johnson and Turris qualify as #2s, so we're still deep at C, while improving the defense.

 

[Neutrinos]

Subban + Turris for Tavares + Zaitsev

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

That's not how it works. Someone will take Subban's ice time, we're not just going to roll with 5 defenders because we traded one. Ellis and Ekholm will get more icetime and likely put up much better numbers, and whoever plays in the 4 spot will also put up numbers. In the end, you'll still get close to 60 points, it's just more spread out. Also, how are you figuring Turris' pace?

HAHAH that is how it works. Just because you put a body on a line doesnt mean they will generate points. Just ask the habs.

[MOD]

 

[Predigree]

What ?

You won't ever Get a #1 center like Draisi for Subban alone. wtf are you smoking

Draisaitl is a#1 Center? [MOD]

 

[Danny1237]

This is one of those trades that just doesn't ever happen. A deal around Subban + Turris should net you at the very least an under 25 bonafide #1 center in terms of value. However, in the salary cap era no team is perfect, or even all that close, so even if the value is fine, big trades like this don't happen because no team can really spare the pieces required to make this sort of deal.

Say Toronto decides "hey we can do this deal and fix our D". So let's just for fun say they do Matthews for Subban + Turris. Well now their 3 C's are Tavares, Turris and Kadri. Still strong, but now there are a lot more teams that match up well down the middle against them and it's not longer as big a strength they can exploit. Adding Subban to the D will drastically improve them, but it doesn't vault them to the top and teams like San Jose, Anaheim, Probably still Nashville, Tampa Bay, the Hurricanes, all still have a stronger D core, and other teams aren't far off. So now they are in a position where they. So now you have a decently balanced team but still not perfect, and now you need a coaching strategy that is adaptable so that you try to exploit your strength on D against teams like Pittsburgh, Washington, and Florida, but then try a strategy that exploits your depth at C against teams like Boston, or Tampa, and even in those cases your advantage is marginal. Personally I would rather run on a strategy where you just try and exploit your advantage at C against the vast majority of the league, and the couple of teams who you don't have a big edge there, you will likely still gain the upper hand by having more talented wingers than Pittsburgh. It doesn't guarantee a win, but if you can figure out how to consistently exploit your advantage, you will have an easier time that constantly switching your strategy.

For Nashville they are in the same boat but reversed. Matthews, Johannsen, and Bonino would be no where near the deepest C pool in the league, and now Nashville would not have the deepest group of D either. The team would be more balanced, but they would have to continue to tweak strategies depending on how they matched up against opponents, as there are a good number of good teams that either have better Centers (overall), or better D. Again, it makes the strategy more difficult to be consistent since the edge you have changes depending on who you face.

To me this is one of those NHL 19 trades. The value isn't the problem, it's just that it's a massive shake up that doesn't necessarily make you any better overall since the give and take is equal. In a league with a salary cap, it's nearly impossible to create a team that has elite players at every position and is deep, so teams try and create a competitive advantage somewhere, and then work to create a strategy that allows them to exploit their advantage more than their opponent can exploit their disadvantage. A team that doesn't' have that will have a very hard time competing against the other top teams in the league.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

Draisaitl is a#1 Center? [MOD]

He would be for almost any teams except the big ones like Pitt,Edm, Tampa,Toronto, etc etc

 

[Critical13]

man

Forsberg-Stamkos-Fiala
Tolvanen-Johansen-Arvidsson
Jarkrok-Bonino-Smith
Hartman-Sissons-Watson

Josi-Ellis
Ekholm-Stralman
Hamhuis-Weber

Rinne/Saros.


I'd take that.....

If I am Nashville, I wouldn't do it if the peice you were getting on D was Stralman.

I prefer Subban to Stamkos. So Tampa would need something worth more than Turris, and to me, that's a guy like Sergachev.

 

[Predigree]

He would be for almost any teams except the big ones like Pitt,Edm, Tampa,Toronto, etc etc

I have to say, i havent seen soo much Games from him, but i dont think he is a massive upgrade to Johansen. Maybe im wrong.

Just my opinion.

 

[GoJetsGo55]

I could really See Edmonton Trading for something like this.

draisaitl+small add for Subban + Turris

That was my first thought.

 

[bobholly39]

Lets just ignore the fact that zero first line centers are on the market.

Subban put up 60 pts and Turris was on pace for 65 pts. So you would need 1 player to roughly replace 125 pts. McDavid isn't even putting that much up.

Also their is roughly 15 centers that put up a noticeable difference in points at center then what Turris did.

Agreed. Btw do you work for edmonton by chance? If so tell them to expect a call from habs this afternoon. Were gonna offer you 4 40 points player for McDavid. 160 points > whatever mcdavid puts up after all.

 

[DFC]

If I am Nashville, I wouldn't do it if the peice you were getting on D was Stralman.

I prefer Subban to Stamkos. So Tampa would need something worth more than Turris, and to me, that's a guy like Sergachev.

Nah, we wouldn't do that.

I would add to Stamkos to get Subban though. Not a huge add, but an add. Maybe Cernak? Looks poised to make our roster. Or, if you're looking for a forward, which is our strength, something like Adam Erne. Or maybe Raddysh, but then I'd ask Nashville to throw in a mid-rounder.

 

[yababy]

What top center could we get for that package? We don't need wingers, or quantity trades, we need a high quality center that can push Johansen down to the 2nd line.

15m worth in Subban, Turris. Who you after, McDavid?

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

I guess it depends on which Subban you mean.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Are people in Nashville that unhappy with Turris? Seems a bit early even if essentially no one talk about how ice cold he went last year (but everybody sure loved harping on Duchene when he was!).

He's a good one, last year was a bit of funk, I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

 

[Critical13]

The rare but tantalizing 10 team trade....


Toronto gives: Nylander + Kadri
Toronto gets: Spurgeon + Stone

Nashville gives: Subban + Turris
Nashville gets: Stamkos + Foote

Tampa Bay gives: Stamkos + Foote + Gourde
Tampa Bay gets: Trouba + Turris

Carolina gives: Pesce
Carolina gets: Borgstrom + FLO 1st

Minnesota gives: Spurgeon + Kaprizov
Minnesota gets: Draisaitl

Winnipeg gives: Trouba + Vesalainen
Winnipeg gets: Subban

Florida gives: Borgstrom + FLO 1st
Florida gets: Kadri + Vesalainen

Edmonton gives: Draisaitl + EDM 1st
Edmonton gets: Pesce + Nylander

Ottawa gives: Stone
Ottawa gets: EDM 1st + Kaprizov

Anaheim gives: Ritchie
Anaheim gets: Gourde

READ EM AND WEEP, BOYS!

 

[Soundgarden]

Are people in Nashville that unhappy with Turris? Seems a bit early even if essentially no one talk about how ice cold he went last year (but everybody sure loved harping on Duchene when he was!).

He's a good one, last year was a bit of funk, I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

No, we aren't. He really helped Fiala break out last year, but hit an unfortunately timed cold streak. He's a perfectly fine no.2 and he hasn't even played a full season with us yet.

 

[BAM]

Subban is 29 and has 4 years left on his deal
Draisaitl is 22 with 7 years remaining

Subban might be the better player, but that doesn't mean he has more trade value

Subban is a top 5 D in the world, Draisaitl isn't even a 1C over a full season and this preseason has struggled away from McDavid centering his own line.

 

[BAM]

What ?

You won't ever Get a #1 center like Draisi for Subban alone. wtf are you smoking

LMFAO Subban > Draisaitl, go make a poll if you want more proof

Draisaitl is a 20-30 range center, Subban is a top 5-10 D in the NHL, just because you guys stupidly traded him doesn't change that. Subban's value > LD's value

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

I highly doubt Buffalo or Toronto would trade Eichel or Matthews for that package. I'm sure there's a number of young players that would fall into that category.

Yea i agree, i'm just saying value wise the package should net you any player other than McDavid. Clearly some teams can't fit this trade into their plans.

 

[Buf fan in Nash]

The rare but tantalizing 10 team trade....


Toronto gives: Nylander + Kadri
Toronto gets: Spurgeon + Stone

Nashville gives: Subban + Turris
Nashville gets: Stamkos + Foote

Tampa Bay gives: Stamkos + Foote + Gourde
Tampa Bay gets: Trouba + Turris

Carolina gives: Pesce
Carolina gets: Borgstrom + FLO 1st

Minnesota gives: Spurgeon + Kaprizov
Minnesota gets: Draisaitl

Winnipeg gives: Trouba + Vesalainen
Winnipeg gets: Subban

Florida gives: Borgstrom + FLO 1st
Florida gets: Kadri + Vesalainen

Edmonton gives: Draisaitl + EDM 1st
Edmonton gets: Pesce + Nylander

Ottawa gives: Stone
Ottawa gets: EDM 1st + Kaprizov

Anaheim gives: Ritchie
Anaheim gets: Gourde

READ EM AND WEEP, BOYS!

Why not simplify it and just make it:

Nashville gives: Subban + Turris
Tampa Bay gives: Stamkos + Foote + Gourde

I think Tampa would rather have that than Trouba + Turris

 

[CapnZin]

Subban is 29 and has 4 years left on his deal
Draisaitl is 22 with 7 years remaining

Subban might be the better player, but that doesn't mean he has more trade value

Those contracts don’t have a whole lot of traction in this. If anything... the 22 year old with term and price of 8.5 for a Norris candidate RHD that produces an average of ~20-25 points less than Draisaitl... PK has a lot more trade value.

The only argument is the age and maybe the 500K in salary going Draisaitls way. Elite C aren’t the hardest thing to find. A Norris candidate RHD is.

 

[triggrman]

Lets just ignore the fact that zero first line centers are on the market.

Subban put up 60 pts and Turris was on pace for 65 pts. So you would need 1 player to roughly replace 125 pts. McDavid isn't even putting that much up.

Also their is roughly 15 centers that put up a noticeable difference in points at center then what Turris did.

HAHAH that is how it works. Just because you put a body on a line doesnt mean they will generate points. Just ask the habs.

[MOD]

Turris 76 games, 51 points.

[MOD}

 

[Mick Jagr]

You do realize that Ryan Johansen is on the Preds roster, right? That's 26 year old 30 goal scorer with limitless potential to be a consistent 70 point player in the right situation. That's a top line center if I've ever seen one. Turris in the #2 slot means you don't always have to rely on Johansen to be "the guy" either. Turris is a luxury that most teams don't have. The Preds likely have the best center depth that they have ever had in the history of the franchise.