Stop labeling Vegas players as cast offs or misfits

[NYR713]

This is what I've been saying. Never mind Karlsson's outlier season but why the heck are you calling guys like Neal, Marchessault and Fleury outcasts? And name me one team that wouldn't like to have Haula and Tuch in their lineup. Real outcasts would be like players already quit NHL and gone to Europe.

Fleury was pushed out of Pitt and left open for the draft, Florida gave Smith so Vegas would draft JAM... outcast from their teams is what people mean, not the NHL in general.

One team that didn't want Haula and Tuch... easy. Minnesota. You know, the team that traded Tuch to Vegas so that they would take Haula in the draft?

I'm not sure you paid much attention to this whole thing that went on this season.

 

[The Macho King]

In 2000, here were the draft options for the TWO teams, Minnesota and Columbus:

"26 of the 28 teams existing in the league at the time of the draft were each allowed to protect either one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards or two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards. The Atlanta Thrashers and Nashville Predators had their entire rosters protected, as they were the two newest franchises in the league, only being in existence for one and two years respectively."

For Vegas "they allowed each team to either protect seven forwards, three defencemen, and one goaltender or, one goaltender and eight skaters regardless of position."

These players weren't cast offs, they were quality NHL players whom teams drafted and/or invested in. Vegas had it much easier than any previous expansion team.

They also paid a ton more than other expansion teams.

The cap is going up ~5million this season despite two/three "non-traditional markets" in the Conference Finals (depending on whether you count DC as a traditional market). Vegas' expansion is a total success - full stop. Instead of complaining about the rules - remember EVERYONE thought this team was going to be bad, the question was how bad - give credit to McPhee and his pro-scouting staff, and Gallant. Vegas identified some inefficiencies in how teams evaluated/used talent, made shrewd picks, and let's face it - got a little lucky with some players taking major steps forward. I don't think the best pro-scout in the universe thought Karlsson was going to score 43 goals.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Jealousy really does bring out the worst in people.

 

[3074326]

It's funny how the narrative has changed this season. After the draft, McPhee was a horrible GM and completely botched the whole process. This team was going to be last, or near the bottom. Their best forward was James Neal.

Now, they're a hand-picked super team that is unstoppable by no known natural force and it was a "shady" draft. Unreal.

 

[sharkhawk]

Did the prior drafts also automatically protect prospects. Is see a lot of people saying that they got the teams 9th or 12 th most valuable asset. A lot of players were protected by virtue of service. The leafs didn’t have to protect Matthews or marker, the oilers Mcdavid and Drai. Etc.

 

[MartyOwns]

the term 'worst thread in HF history' gets thrown a lot these days

 

[Newsworthy]

Answer this question please:

Were most people, fans/analysts/hockey guys predicting Vegas to be a bad team AFTER the expansion draft?

If that is the case then how was the expansion draft too in favor of Vegas?

I mean if everyone said they were gonna suck before the season started......I just don't understand how there are people that can't remember what was expected of this team that are now going on about the integrity of the expansion rules.

It's mind boggling.

I had a problem with the rules from the beginning. Call me a traditionalist but if all teams agreed to them and took the expansion fees then fine. I'm not sure if owners had much say in changing them though. Still think if teams are too lose players of quality the league without any adverse effects could compensate them by adding compensatory draft picks.

 

[Newsworthy]

just a thought and this might sound a little crazy but

maybe teams should try not giving NMCs to players they aren't absolutely sure they want to keep around long term

maybe its just me but I think it sounds pretty damn reasonable to force a team to protect players that they mutually agreed to a contract with where they not only can't trade them but literally can't get rid of them at all outside of flat out buying them out from being exposed to an expansion draft without their consent

Why would Vegas pick the "NMC" players in the first place? These are players that are probably "true" cast offs.
Also the other alternative is just make all players with NMC exempt.
All the league did was penalize teams for giving a player security. Owners are now gonna be less inclined to hand out these types of deals especially with Seattle looming. However Vegas can hand them out This offseason like candy without any worries.
Well not until at least the next expansion draft is

 

[Lemmiwinks]

I don't understand the complaint. Vegas's players were selected, in general, because they were left unprotected by their former teams. This doesn't mean that some teams weren't put in tough spot and had to give up a good player, it just means that, with many months to play with before the draft, they found that the best option was to give up player x.

Of course, some teams made mistakes, but that doesn't mean the players they lost weren't of the least value to them according to their thinking at the time.

So, Vegas is a team of player x's. Since that's not particularly catchy, I say we call them a team of cast-offs or, if you like, misfits. It's not meant as an insult, but as a reflection of how an expansion draft works

 

[The Red Helmet]

1. teams were given a choice.
2. Its not vegas's fault if teams chose incorrectly
.

I'm gonna give you a choice. I can cut of your head or your legs, which one will it be?

 

[3074326]

I'm gonna give you a choice. I can cut of your head or your legs, which one will it be?

Which of the players would have been the equivalent of a head or a leg at the time?

None.

 

[Jtown]

Which of the players would have been the equivalent of a head or a leg at the time?

None.

And for Pittsburgh it was a huge cap relief to have the Knights take Fleury. I will never for the life of me understand people complaining about this amazing run vegas is on.

 

[IceNeophyte]

And for Pittsburgh it was a huge cap relief to have the Knights take Fleury. I will never for the life of me understand people complaining about this amazing run vegas is on.

Enough of a cap relief that the Pens added incentive to the pick.

I've written this before, but I believe this pick was good for Vegas, good for Pens, good for MAF.

 

[TheNumber4]

They made side deals with a lot of teams in order to not take those good players.

So they got the equivalent value of the 8th best player on every teams roster in some cases. My point still stands.

 

[TheNumber4]

I was trying to make a point about people who think Vegas was gifted some super team.

Point being, they weren't.

They're a bunch of average players that were expendable in the eyes of their former team. And every expansion I can remember, each team had to expose players to help out the new team.

Vegas clearly did a good job and the players themselves really seem to have something going on, chip on their shoulder...playing for their next contract/team....just coming together in the locker room and wanting to beat all odds etc.

Plus clearly great coaching and management.

No they got gifted above average players, the on average 8th-10th best player in each organization which is above average. They got 30 of them. So you take a roster of above average players and add a great coach and you get Vegas' success.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Castoffs and misfits ,come at me!!

 

[rent free]

So they got the equivalent value of the 8th best player on every teams roster in some cases. My point still stands.

You said on average they got the 9th best player from each team which is false. They got the 8 th best player from a few teams and the 12 th or 13th best players from other teams so no your point doesn't still stand. The 8 th best, 12th best and 13 th best players on a team do not make an expansion team good.

 

[charliolemieux]

Can we call them the expendables 3?

If they win 3 more games we can call them "The Expendables; Stanley's Squad".

 

[The Macho King]

You said on average they got the 9th best player from each team which is false. They got the 8 th best player from a few teams and the 12 th or 13th best players from other teams so no your point doesn't still stand. The 8 th best, 12th best and 13 th best players on a team do not make an expansion team good.

8th/13th best player not exempt from protection*.

 

[rent free]

8th/13th best player not exempt from protection*.

so its even a worse list of players then

 

[The Macho King]

so its even a worse list of players then

Exactly. Tampa didn't have to protect Brayden Point, for example. I think McDavid was exempt, as was Matthews and others. Plus any recently drafted prospects.

 

[ChanceVegas]

 

[Brian McDavid]

They are absolutely misfits/castoffs. Good for them for proving 'over 200 hockey men' wrong. If they were playing any other Easter Conference team I'd be rooting for them.

 

[joe dirte]

Why are people still shocked by this? They're NHL players who play NHL hockey for a living and people keep saying, "OMG! how is this possible that a team in their first season are in the finals?!? How could this be?!?"

The only people who don't deserve to this is, and I'm sorry but, the Las Vegas fan base. They did not go through the hard-ships of sucking for multiple year, watching their team trade away their star players and go through a "rebuilding" phase. Yeah, good for you should it happen, but you really won't appreciate what you have here unless you go through years of missing the playoffs and finally being apart of it.

But, yeah, I agree with the title of this page. The players don't need to be called cast-offs or misfits

What if Vegas fanbase were all ex-senators fans? Then would they deserve it more? A fanbase that doesn't win, is horribly managed, and a total mess?

 

[BigT2002]

They are absolutely misfits/castoffs. Good for them for proving 'over 200 hockey men' wrong. If they were playing any other Easter Conference team I'd be rooting for them.

Especially if people actually use their intellect and go back and read damn near every analysis after they did the Expansion Draft up until the WCF. They were getting slaughtered as a joke, would not win more than 20 games, etc. The marketing people for Vegas has done a fantastic job reminding people they were up against the odds from Day 1 and they proved every single "expert" or HFBoards who believed those comments wrong. As others have said, jealousy really does bring out the worst in people.