Stop focusing on the Negatives

[Verviticus]

So keep him, have him disgruntled and not play well, miss out on a second 1st round pick in this draft and probably get even worse in the long run like the Luongo deal. Yea that'll drive up trade prices. How in what way would that be a good idea in any way shape or forum?

how are the situations even remotely similar other than "guy asks for trade"? forwards are not goaltenders. when he lets the team trade him elsewhere, they will get more value. luongos contract extends through infinity. where he goes, he stays. keslers ends in two years. it wouldnt be long before he thinks "oh, i guess i can just re-sign where i want to in 2016". kesler's contract has a value, luongo's doesnt. i guess technically they're both hockey players with contracts so they're similar in that regard

 

[IComeInPeace]

http://zite.to/1jxuwcd

Apparently USA today considers us one of the biggest winners of the weekend.

I know, I know...what do they know. Clearly Jim Benning is a moron.

 

[Verviticus]

http://zite.to/1jxuwcd

Apparently USA today considers us one of the biggest winners of the weekend.

I know, I know...what do they know. Clearly Jim Benning is a moron.

i know that when i want hockey analysis, i go to "USA Today"

 

[medhatcanuck]

Next Year's Roster:

D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Jensen
_______ - Horvat - Kassian
Higgins - Bonino - Vey
Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett
(+ Burrows and Hansen)

Hamhuis - Tanev
Edler - Sbisa
Bieska - Corrado

Lack
Markstrom

Future Roster (based on what we have now)

Virtanen - Horvat - ______
Shinkaruk - Vey - Kassian
McCann - Gaunce - Jensen
Fox - Bonino - Matthias
(+Cassels)

_____ - Tanev
Sbisa - Corrado
Hutton - McNally/Subban

Lack
Demko
Markstrom

Depth:
C: AWESOME, we are missing a clear cut Mantha/Reinhart franchise Centermen, so what? so are 25 other NHL teams.
Horvat (*1C/2C)
Gaunce (*2C/3C)
Vey (2C/3C)
McCann (*2C/3C)
Cassels (*2C/*3C)
Matthias (3C/4C)
Bonino (3C/4C)

LW: Solid. We are potentially moving someone like Gaunce or McCann out to LW.
Viratnen (1LW/2LW)
Shinkaruk (1LW/2LW)
Fox (*2LW/3LW)

RW: Weakness. We are missing a 1LW)
Kassian (2LW)
Jensen (*1LW/*2LW/*3LW)

D: We are missing a 1D.
Tanev (2/3)
Corrado (3/4)
Sbisa (3/4)
Stanton (5/6)
Hutton (*?)
Subban (*?)
McNally (*?)

G: GREAT
Lack (1)
Demko (1/2)
Markstrom (*1/2)

SO WHAT? Our organization has put Horvat into the #1C spot. Which I am totally in for so long as he has offensive sniper wingers. We'll we got ourselves a Jake Virtanen, so we are essentially missing a #1RW sniper to complete a future team. We are also mising a #1 Dman.

ORANIZATIONAL NEEDS:
- #1RW Sniper (Necessary to be top tier - at least on the same level as Virtanen)
- #1D (Franchise level)

5. So why are we all butthurt?
1) We didn't get the 10th OA.
2) We didn't get Reinhart.
3) We didn't get TT, Etem, DSP, Lindholm, or Mantha.

Our organizational needs are all there except a 1st line RW and a Franchise D. I think Benning is doing a fine job.

 

[The Stig]

how are the situations even remotely similar other than "guy asks for trade"? forwards are not goaltenders. when he lets the team trade him elsewhere, they will get more value. luongos contract extends through infinity. where he goes, he stays. keslers ends in two years. it wouldnt be long before he thinks "oh, i guess i can just re-sign where i want to in 2016". kesler's contract has a value, luongo's doesnt. i guess technically they're both hockey players with contracts so they're similar in that regard

Have you heard or read anything that has been said about this situation by him or the team up until now or are you just going on guess work? I can compare the Luongo and Kesler situation like this. 1. Do you remember the circus that has been the last few years around here? Do you think we needed another circus? 2. Locker room distraction. How do you think the rest of the locker room would react to having this cancer in there knowing he DOESN'T want to be there playing beside you and think the team isn't good enough for him? Why would we hang onto that and hinder the rest of the team? Is it really worth all that trouble for a 10th instead of a 24th? No it isn't. Got him out of here before this became a real problem.

 

[Verviticus]

Have you heard or read anything that has been said about this situation by him or the team up until now or are you just going on guess work? I can compare the Luongo and Kesler situation like this. 1. Do you remember the circus that has been the last few years around here? Do you think we needed another circus? 2. Locker room distraction. How do you think the rest of the locker room would react to having this cancer in there knowing he DOESN'T want to be there playing beside you and think the team isn't good enough for him? Why would we hang onto that and hinder the rest of the team? Is it really worth all that trouble for a 10th instead of a 24th? No it isn't. Got him out of here before this became a real problem.

id take that distraction or suffering or whatever in exchange for real assets. he'll be gone, its not like he'd hang around for a long time

luongo's situation was different. there wasnt a hope of resolution and there was no need for compromise. if kesler hanging around was that bad, compromise would come very quickly.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Have you heard or read anything that has been said about this situation by him or the team up until now or are you just going on guess work? I can compare the Luongo and Kesler situation like this. 1. Do you remember the circus that has been the last few years around here? Do you think we needed another circus? 2. Locker room distraction. How do you think the rest of the locker room would react to having this cancer in there knowing he DOESN'T want to be there playing beside you and think the team isn't good enough for him? Why would we hang onto that and hinder the rest of the team? Is it really worth all that trouble for a 10th instead of a 24th? No it isn't. Got him out of here before this became a real problem.

There was atleat the option to play hard ball with him since he was demanding the trade. Let him not report and then suspend him. Keeps him away from the team and I'd imagine opens up his list of teams a few

 

[The Stig]

id take that distraction or suffering or whatever in exchange for real assets. he'll be gone, its not like he'd hang around for a long time

luongo's situation was different. there wasnt a hope of resolution and there was no need for compromise. if kesler hanging around was that bad, compromise would come very quickly.

Thats not how things work. Anaheim would look at us and just watch us squirm. The offer would get worse as we get more desperate to move him. Offers dont get better as time goes on. Everyone knew we wanted to move him and all they had to do was wait til we were desperate.

 

[Sharpshooter]

Have you heard or read anything that has been said about this situation by him or the team up until now or are you just going on guess work? I can compare the Luongo and Kesler situation like this. 1. Do you remember the circus that has been the last few years around here? Do you think we needed another circus? 2. Locker room distraction. How do you think the rest of the locker room would react to having this cancer in there knowing he DOESN'T want to be there playing beside you and think the team isn't good enough for him? Why would we hang onto that and hinder the rest of the team? Is it really worth all that trouble for a 10th instead of a 24th? No it isn't. Got him out of here before this became a real problem.

Well put.

It's like people have forgotten what a rebuild is all about. It isn't about including those that don't want to be here. It's actually quite a simple concept.

 

[Sharpshooter]

There was atleat the option to play hard ball with him since he was demanding the trade. Let him not report and then suspend him. Keeps him away from the team and I'd imagine opens up his list of teams a few

So more drama, for a situation that requires less??

 

[The Stig]

There was atleat the option to play hard ball with him since he was demanding the trade. Let him not report and then suspend him. Keeps him away from the team and I'd imagine opens up his list of teams a few

So then we'd be out a player when the season started and have nothing in return. Teams would know we were desperate.

 

[Verviticus]

Thats not how things work. Anaheim would look at us and just watch us squirm. The offer would get worse as we get more desperate to move him. Offers dont get better as time goes on. Everyone knew we wanted to move him and all they had to do was wait til we were desperate.

its sometimes how things work. not always

its probabilistic. sometimes it will work, sometimes it wont. i'm really comfortable saying that the offer for kesler would never get worse than a single first round pick, so what's there to lose? a third line tweener who had a lucky season?

 

[The Stig]

its sometimes how things work. not always

its probabilistic. sometimes it will work, sometimes it wont. i'm really comfortable saying that the offer for kesler would never get worse than a single first round pick, so what's there to lose? a third line tweener who had a lucky season?

And sometimes it''s a lucky season, sometimes it's a breakout year and a tread going up. And we got better than a single first round pick. We got a 20 goal scorer and a defenceman too. So why are you complaining?

 

[TuckerDoanIginla]

I feel this way, minus the sarcasm.

There's no reason you can't have a wait and see approach/be open to having your mind changed by how it all plays out while simultaneously voicing your displeasure right now based on how you feel at this current moment in time. It hardly has to be some cold hard-condemnation that you can't come back from. It's just... a negative perception/disappointment/frustration that I have no problem with people expressing.

The "Come'on guys, lighten up! Don't be a negative Norman! Everyone should be optimistic all the time because negativity makes me uncomfortable!" stuff is just disgusting and makes me want to gag.

On the other hand, I hate the fans who get all fatalist about it. Things like responding to "I wish we got Barbashev" with "What's the point! We only would have ****ed up his development anyways! **** this organization!" is just totally worthless, uninteresting and disruptive, drama-queen commentary.

By all means embrace your negative impressions, but don't try your hardest to scoff at everything that doesn't align with it.

That's not it. The fact is Benning has been on the job for a couple weeks and already has shown more willingness to make changes and already according to Canuck fans he should be fired, tar and feathered, strung up in front of Rogers Center.

Canuck fans need to learn to pace yourselves. People outside of Vancouver get at you because of the over exaggerations from the fan base.

Kesler is INCREDIBLY overrated by Canucks fans. Wasn't even ever a point per game guy, scored more than 30 goals once. The fact is he's NEVER elevated any team whether it's the Canucks or Team USA and push them over the hump.

He put Benning into a corner, and gave them basically ZERO choices. It's not Benning's fault that Kesler had all the rope. Would you of rather Kesler with his piss poor attitude linger around the dressing room all year AGAIN just like the Luongo/Schneider fiasco?

Fact is, Canucks management and ownership in the past has treated it's players as a whole like crap unless you're the almighty, wonderful Trevor Linden who gets all his praise because of what he did the first couple years of his career and what he really contributed on the ice the last 10-12 years is which was nothing is being ignored.

 

[TuckerDoanIginla]

Ok how did we trade Kesler below market value? We had one option and they had us over a barrel.

There's a big difference between Canuck fans Market value and reality market value. You want the world for a 25 goal scorer and less than PPG player.

 

[The Stig]

There's a big difference between Canuck fans Market value and reality market value. You want the world for a 25 goal scorer and less than PPG player.

No I don't. I'm happy with the return we got.

 

[Shareefruck]

That's not it. The fact is Benning has been on the job for a couple weeks and already has shown more willingness to make changes and already according to Canuck fans he should be fired, tar and feathered, strung up in front of Rogers Center.

Canuck fans need to learn to pace yourselves. People outside of Vancouver get at you because of the over exaggerations from the fan base.

Kesler is INCREDIBLY overrated by Canucks fans. Wasn't even ever a point per game guy, scored more than 30 goals once. The fact is he's NEVER elevated any team whether it's the Canucks or Team USA and push them over the hump.

He put Benning into a corner, and gave them basically ZERO choices. It's not Benning's fault that Kesler had all the rope. Would you of rather Kesler with his piss poor attitude linger around the dressing room all year AGAIN just like the Luongo/Schneider fiasco?

Fact is, Canucks management and ownership in the past has treated it's players as a whole like crap unless you're the almighty, wonderful Trevor Linden who gets all his praise because of what he did the first couple years of his career and what he really contributed on the ice the last 10-12 years is which was nothing is being ignored.

What does this have to do with what I said?

By all means ARGUE with these people, I'm not saying their evaluations are anywhere near correct, but it has nothing to do with something being inherently wrong with negativity. You simply disagree that these are good/bad moves. So be it.

I think fanbases hate this team for the overly positive homers every bit as much as the guys who complain. Probably more-so.

 

[Verviticus]

And sometimes it''s a lucky season, sometimes it's a breakout year and a tread going up. And we got better than a single first round pick. We got a 20 goal scorer and a defenceman too. So why are you complaining?

cause i have no faith in bonino being a player and i think sbisa is a cap dump. i really feel like would be better off with just the 24 and flipping bonino. im complaining because i didnt like the return

 

[Baby Pettersson]

We are going to have a huge skilled team in the upcoming years. Nothing better then a huge fast paced team that can skate.

 

[ddawg1950]

They are tough, but 'fans' endure them, some relish the excitement and prospect of ushering in a new era.

I can literally see the 5 stages of grief and loss from some posters here....more than some actually.

Tell me if this fits the posts we've seen in the last 36 hours?

Denial/Isolation
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

There are some who have said, "That's it, i'm done with this team".

Others, "Screw this leadership, Benning sucks, Linden sucks, this or that prospect sucks, life sucks!" lol

Others still have moves on to, "Yeah, but if we get this guy from FA then we'll be ok, right?", "If we tank, we'll get the top 3 pick next year and we'll be fine, so I'm ok with this"...or some other version of negotiating with themselves and others on how it's all justifiable in the end.

Some....straight to depression. Chief among those posts for me in amusement, "FML".


And yet still many have come to acceptance that we're in a rebuild and that it'll take time to get a new identity and core from these and future prospects. I think this is the most healthy outcome. We accepted that Benning and Linden were decent hires. We know have to accept that they have a vision and plan to rebuild, and that yes it may occur in fits and starts and setbacks, but that they're building towards something that can entertain and reach success on ice.

Hey, if Kesler's ready to move on, then great....we ought to be as well. He was one cog in the team...not the whole team. That goes with all players.

And at the further risk and recognition of sounding patronizing to other intelligent hockey fans here, once we get through those stages, it's ok to cheer on the guys once again. That's what being a loyal fan is about. We cheer them on, whether it's one rookie or multiple rookies and replacement guys, or fill-ins, or what-have-you. They put on the sweater that represents us, so the least we can do is represent something worthy of playing hard and entertaining for. Anyways, just wanted to use your post as a means to an end.

Yep, ypu nails it.

It is remarkably like facing a death and these are the distinct stages.

I've been through it enough times with the Canucks.

The uncertainty of when we are going to regain respectability gets to a lot of people.

I'll be happy enough if we just become watchable again...and I believe that is our grasp this coming season.

The rest just has to take the tome to work itself on.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

http://zite.to/1jxuwcd

Apparently USA today considers us one of the biggest winners of the weekend.

I know, I know...what do they know. Clearly Jim Benning is a moron.

No St Louis... that's pretty shocking.

 

[CherryToke]

Next Year's Roster:

D. Sedin - H. Sedin - Jensen
_______ - Horvat - Kassian
Higgins - Bonino - Vey
Matthias - Richardson - Dorsett
(+ Burrows and Hansen)

Hamhuis - Tanev
Edler - Sbisa
Bieska - Corrado

Lack
Markstrom

you think Horvat is ready for 2nd line duties next year? his confidence will get absolutely destroyed if he's thrown into the fire like that. I doubt he'll even be ready for full time 3rd line duties. he'll most likely bounce between the 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[wreckless]

we were focused on the negatives when we were winning president trophies and going to cup finals.

what do you expect?

 

[just22]

cause i have no faith in bonino being a player and i think sbisa is a cap dump. i really feel like would be better off with just the 24 and flipping bonino. im complaining because i didnt like the return

No faith? Why? Everything I've heard from Ducks fans seems pretty positive...

Everyone's precious advanced analytics couldn't have predicted the year that Santorelli had, so I'm going to be optimistic and say Bonino will have a good year next year.

 

[Bean in Charge]

cause i have no faith in bonino being a player and i think sbisa is a cap dump. i really feel like would be better off with just the 24 and flipping bonino. im complaining because i didnt like the return

Fair enough, but at the end of the day that's what Kesler's value is. You can't change that. It wasn't TT and Chicago's 1st. It wasn't Etem & a 10th.

I'm pretty sure Benning didn't go in with an offer of Sbisa/24th/Bonino. He probably went in a lot higher, like most normal negotiations.

Kesler's real life value was significantly lower than what people around here thought. Reality check I guess.