Stop focusing on the Negatives

WestleySnipez

Christmas came early
Jan 1, 2012
533
9
Vancouver. Duh.
TL;DR: Stop focusing on the negatives of the players we got and the positives of the players we sent packing. Each player has their positives, focus on those.

I've looked at the player threads for all the new guys we picked up today, and most people are hating on the guys we traded for or drafted, with the exception of homegrown Virtanen.

You guys would have been mad if we kept Kesler. The plan was to get younger and that's what Benning did. Just because they weren't what you hoped for doesn't mean they are bad players.

"Sbisa is literally waiver wire material"

"We'll be lucky if Bonino is worth a 3rd next year"

"Great, now we have 3 of the same prospects (with the addition of McCann)"

It seems a lot of you focus on the negatives of the players that come in, and the positives of the players we moved or passed on.

Let's focus on the positives.

Luca Sbisa has been an even player on the ice in the number of games he was able to play last season. Alex Edler has been a combined -44. Granted, they were with two different teams. The Canucks only let in a total of 17 goals more over those two seasons. He also is only 24, so he still has room to improve his game and produce more offensively as well as defensively. Don't write him off just because of an injury.

Nick Bonino has improved his point-per-game totals over the 4 seasons he has been in the league. Last year he played on a team that's lines changed quite frequently and still manged to get 49 points. Most of those might have come playing with Getzlaf and Perry, and his points will probably drop next season, but at least we know he is capable of at least 40 points.

Jared McCann may have a game similar to Gaunce or Horvat, but I'd rather have 3 shut down centers that are able to put up 40-50 points a season and a positive +/- rather than a couple guys who put up 60 points and are negative. I don't think he meant to come off across the way he did with "it is what it is", he may be disappointed that he didn't fall to 30th and get picked by his favourite team. He was slated to go 16th overall, and we were able to get him at 24th. At the very least he is a trade asset or a future, younger, replacement for Kesler.

Now let's look at the reason why Kesler and Garrison were moved.

Kesler has definitely declined since 2011. This was probably the best time to trade him, if his stats dropped again his value would have been even lower. I expect him to get around 20 goals and 20 assists if he plays on Anaheim's 2nd line, which he most likely will. He was also being paid 5 million a season, where as Bonino is getting 1.9 and Sbisa, 2.75, so we save more money with this trade.

Garrison was not worth 4.6 million. We signed him to a high contract with a ridiculous no-trade clause because he scored 16 goals in one season. He was payed higher than Hamhuis, easily our best defenseman, on the hopes he'd replace Erhoff, he did produce good numbers, but at the end of the day, he was another 30 year old defenseman our team didn't need in a rebuilding stage. I'm not saying he is worse than Edler. It's possible Edler was asked if he wanted to leave, and said no, whereas Garrison said yes.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
37,903
5,595
Make my day.
We picked up a 2nd pairing guy who is young enough to be more than that
Comparable: Ehrhoff

a 50 point 2-way C who is trending up, 60+ point year
Comparable: Pavelski

quality 2-way 2nd line centre from the draft
Comparable: Kesler

big physical winger who can bring 25 points to the 4th line
Comparable: Torres

awesome day!
 
Last edited:

huntison

Registered User
Aug 12, 2008
4,899
30
We picked up a 2nd pairing guy who is young enough to be more than that

a 50 point 2-way C who is trending up, 60+ point year

quality 2-way 2nd line centre from the draft

big physical winger who can bring 25 points to the 4th line

awesome day!

+ a potential 30 goal+, fast skating, power forward.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
6,779
3,522
Surrey, BC
We picked up a 2nd pairing guy who is young enough to be more than that

a 50 point 2-way C who is trending up, 60+ point year

quality 2-way 2nd line centre from the draft

big physical winger who can bring 25 points to the 4th line

awesome day!

I know the point of this thread is to be optimistic but these expectations are very hopeful.
 

Hollywood Burrows

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
5,547
2,813
EAST VANCOUVER
I've been following this team closely since about 1995. By that I mean watching or listening to every single game. Before that I was too young to really consider my interest in the team significant (I'm 32 now).

The stuff that happened today is on par with the way the team felt in the Messier aftermath in 1997-1999. Total organizational disarray and incoherence. I'm prepared to take a few years off from watching and check back when this has passed. Peace!
 

DFAC

Registered User
Jan 19, 2008
7,307
4,902
I've been following this team closely since about 1995. By that I mean watching or listening to every single game. Before that I was too young to really consider my interest in the team significant (I'm 32 now).

The stuff that happened today is on par with the way the team felt in the Messier aftermath in 1997-1999. Total organizational disarray and incoherence. I'm prepared to take a few years off from watching and check back when this has passed. Peace!

Hey I don't agree with the first moves a new GM and President have done, time to stop being a fan. Come on man. :shakehead
 

Iridescent*

Guest
I've been following this team closely since about 1995. By that I mean watching or listening to every single game. Before that I was too young to really consider my interest in the team significant (I'm 32 now).

The stuff that happened today is on par with the way the team felt in the Messier aftermath in 1997-1999. Total organizational disarray and incoherence. I'm prepared to take a few years off from watching and check back when this has passed. Peace!

Apart from the last sentence, complete agreement. I could see this going so badly that the team gets sold within the next 6-7 years.
 

GCM

Stork
Jun 22, 2010
3,042
0
Hey I don't agree with the first moves a new GM and President have done, time to stop being a fan. Come on man. :shakehead

That's how bandwagoners are. Conditional fans.




I think the Kes trade was slightly below value, but it was Kesler's fault NOT Benning. Kesler gave Benning a 2 team list when he showed up. Chicago was out due to cap reasons so really it was a 1 team list. The same problem we ran into with Luongo.

Kesler crapped all over his value before he left. On top of a poor season he demands a trade so everyone knows he's available and wants out and then he limits himself to one team.



Garrison trade the jury is out at the moment. I liked Garrison and only a 2nd rounder in return for him is not proper value. He only wanted to go to 2 teams, TBL and MTL. So again value won't be proper, but even then more than a single second this year would have been nice.

The reason the jury is out is that if this is a cap clearing move and we sign a big name UFA then this will be contingent on how that signing pans out.



I love the 3rd for Dorsett. It's a late 3rd (85th), we still have our 3rd (66th), and Dorsett is a roster player that was great in the cup finals on the NYR 4th line. Nothing wrong with having real role players on your team. Gillis never got us a stable bottom 6. This is 1 step towards that goal.

What did you guys (who dislike this trade) think that 85th overall was going to turn into? The next Johan Franzen? A cheap roster player that fills a role on the team is worth way more than a measly late 3rd. Late 3rds don't usually even become NHL players. And like I said we still have our earlier 3rd...
 

skyo

Benning Squad
Sep 22, 2013
3,504
230
CanucksCorner
canuckscorner.com
We had 3 highly paid left side dmen with NTC's we managed to move one without a buyout and got a 2nd round pick back, not too shabby, cap went to only $69M so we cleared space just in time now others are trying to do the same.

Kesler clearly wanted out and now we don't have to go through this toxic like wait ala Luongo.

Ducks almost made the deal with the Sens, but Sens refused without the #10 so we are lucky we got something decent in this Kesler trade.

Everyone knew, hell even Torts knew this team needed a shakeup big time, and now we finally got it! something Gillis couldn't do at all.
 

Blue Suede Shoes

hound dog
May 5, 2012
1,791
0
We picked up a 2nd pairing guy who is young enough to be more than that
Comparable: Duncan Keith

a 50 point 2-way C who is trending up, 80+ point year
Comparable: Johnny Toews

quality 2-way 2nd line centre from the draft
Comparable: Steve Yzerman

big physical winger who can bring 75 points to the 4th line
Comparable: Cam Neely

awesome day!

I put in my own predictions. (Am I being optimistic enough?)
 

Spectrefire

Registered User
Jan 3, 2013
1,178
1,103
I'm honestly just dead tired of the whiney. It's endless. This fanbase just never stops... and people wonder why we're considered one of the worst fans in the league.
 

canuck293

Registered User
Jul 15, 2004
899
0
Ontario
I just don't understand the hate on the McCann pick.
He was the highest rated player left on the board; is one of the fastest skaters in the draft; ranked top 5 in hockey IQ, has represented Canada twice, and has a good shot/two way game. The criticisms of him are that he is capable of more and hasn't shown it. I'll take that as his biggest flaw over speed, size, or character issues any day.
As for the redundant comments, last time I checked not one of those "similar" prospects has proven themselves in the NHL yet. Prospects flame out for any number of reasons, lets not count our chickens quite yet.

I get that some people preferred other prospects, but the way the draft thread reacted to that pick was so ridiculous you'd think they had just drafted Patrick White AGAIN.
 

Danrik

It is what it is.
Oct 17, 2006
1,974
0
Super Surrey, BC
Last year Gillis said we were getting younger and changes were needed, nothing happened, that sucked. This year Benning made it happen and I'm on board with it.
 

Cocoa Crisp

Registered User
Mar 8, 2006
2,820
0
NYC
We've been pining for some one shot scorers, a lack of which has really held us back in the playoffs. Virtinen and McCann both have those kinds of shots. And as the Kings and Bruins and Hawks have shown, you need guys with the ability to bury it peppering all four of your lines when the checking gets tight and the refs swallow the whistles.
 

ChilliBilly

Registered User
Aug 22, 2007
7,134
4,395
chilliwacki
That's how bandwagoners are. Conditional fans.




I think the Kes trade was slightly below value, but it was Kesler's fault NOT Benning. Kesler gave Benning a 2 team list when he showed up. Chicago was out due to cap reasons so really it was a 1 team list. The same problem we ran into with Luongo.

Kesler crapped all over his value before he left. On top of a poor season he demands a trade so everyone knows he's available and wants out and then he limits himself to one team.



Garrison trade the jury is out at the moment. I liked Garrison and only a 2nd rounder in return for him is not proper value. He only wanted to go to 2 teams, TBL and MTL. So again value won't be proper, but even then more than a single second this year would have been nice.

The reason the jury is out is that if this is a cap clearing move and we sign a big name UFA then this will be contingent on how that signing pans out.



I love the 3rd for Dorsett. It's a late 3rd (85th), we still have our 3rd (66th), and Dorsett is a roster player that was great in the cup finals on the NYR 4th line. Nothing wrong with having real role players on your team. Gillis never got us a stable bottom 6. This is 1 step towards that goal.

What did you guys (who dislike this trade) think that 85th overall was going to turn into? The next Johan Franzen? A cheap roster player that fills a role on the team is worth way more than a measly late 3rd. Late 3rds don't usually even become NHL players. And like I said we still have our earlier 3rd...

I think we swapped 3rd picks with Ana, so no we don't have the 66th. And lets see how the team responds this year before its all doom and gloom.
 

Bleach Clean

Registered User
Aug 9, 2006
27,057
6,634
I just don't understand the hate on the McCann pick.
He was the highest rated player left on the board; is one of the fastest skaters in the draft; ranked top 5 in hockey IQ, has represented Canada twice, and has a good shot/two way game. The criticisms of him are that he is capable of more and hasn't shown it. I'll take that as his biggest flaw over speed, size, or character issues any day.
As for the redundant comments, last time I checked not one of those "similar" prospects has proven themselves in the NHL yet. Prospects flame out for any number of reasons, lets not count our chickens quite yet.

I get that some people preferred other prospects, but the way the draft thread reacted to that pick was so ridiculous you'd think they had just drafted Patrick White AGAIN.


Ok, the pick isn't outlandish by any means. When Russians are excluded, he probably represented the best alternative. That said, he slipped because of his IQ. Virtanen is solid value at #6, but he too has questions about his IQ. So for fans that favour that aspect of the game, it's a bit disconcerting.

But really, as said earlier, it's not so much the picks, it's about the trades. Those trades cast a pall over the draft. A lot of reaction you are seeing about the draft are not about the actual picks themselves. Some yes, but a good portion is residual backlash from the Kesler & Garrison deals.
 

Ciao

Registered User
Jul 15, 2010
10,004
5,812
Toronto
. . .
Kesler has definitely declined since 2011. This was probably the best time to trade him, if his stats dropped again his value would have been even lower. I expect him to get around 20 goals and 20 assists if he plays on Anaheim's 2nd line, which he most likely will. He was also being paid 5 million a season, where as Bonino is getting 1.9 and Sbisa, 2.75, so we save more money with this trade.

Garrison was not worth 4.6 million. We signed him to a high contract with a ridiculous no-trade clause because he scored 16 goals in one season. He was payed higher than Hamhuis, easily our best defenseman, on the hopes he'd replace Erhoff, he did produce good numbers, but at the end of the day, he was another 30 year old defenseman our team didn't need in a rebuilding stage. I'm not saying he is worse than Edler. It's possible Edler was asked if he wanted to leave, and said no, whereas Garrison said yes.

This is pretty much bang-on. I do think Kesler will have good spells: at times he will look like the Kesler of old, but you will never get more for him, and he wanted out. GMJB did well to move him under tight parameters. I wish he w would come clean my house too.

Great entertainment watching the supposedly life-long Canucks fans who will never watch another game after yesterday's transactions, and those who are just about ready to jump off a bridge, or push someone else of a bridge out something like that. Drama?

The Canucks did pretty well with what they had. I don't think they had much to work with but did okay.
 

MikeK

Registered User
Nov 10, 2008
10,762
4,374
Earth
I find it interesting that the majority of the main board has us ranked as being one of the teams who had the best draft with our first 2 picks. Considering how the regular theme is to usually crap all over Canuckville I'd say we made out pretty well.

I would have loved to get into the top 3-4, even 1OA, bt that didn't happen. All things considered I think we drafted real good players and have a much better prospect pool today because of it. We just need to weed out a few more roster players and hope for a higher draft pick next year. CMD has me drooling.
 

Wilch

Unregistered User
Mar 29, 2010
12,224
487
The deals blew and were poorly handled.

Offering an opinion on the matter does not make me any less of a fan than people with blithe optimism.
 

JBIZ14

Registered User
Nov 22, 2007
6,384
1
Lethbridge
I think we swapped 3rd picks with Ana, so no we don't have the 66th. And lets see how the team responds this year before its all doom and gloom.
I thought the Ducks Got the Canucks 2015 3rd.

Thanks for making this thread OP, I am so happy that Benning is gutting this team now and not prolonging the pain. He is a smarter hockey man then all of us so let's try and let his vision develop before we start crying about this and that.

Virtanen is a total stud ...he already has a better shot then Kesler and he is only 17.

If you're going to have a rebuild year it might as well be right before a monster draft class in 2015.
 

JBIZ14

Registered User
Nov 22, 2007
6,384
1
Lethbridge
The deals blew and were poorly handled.

Offering an opinion on the matter does not make me any less of a fan than people with blithe optimism.

But what do you expect when a player demands a trade and then gives you 2 teams to deal with? The only people that handled this poorly are Gillis and Kesler.

It's time to get out from some of these anchors one of which was consistently being up against the cap allowing for no ability to improve the team through free agency. if you don't earn your contract you have to go.
 

ihaveyuidonttouchme

MrShiftbyShiftGuy
Feb 21, 2009
5,824
388
Vancouver
www.youtube.com
you should change the title to the optimism thread: pessimists, get the **** out! because there r still some in here...
I am excited to see these up and coming new kids in pentiction (sp) and i always hope for the best even if they come up empty or short
i'd rather cheer something that i love rather than **** the team or these kids all over....
 

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