Value of: (Stl-TB) Shattenkirk

[Rschmitz]

would I be pushing my luck if we made it Johnson+Garrison for Shattenkirk+Lehtera (instead of Berglund) ?

Yes. We need the contract gone by the end of the season.

 

[Rschmitz]

I'd love to see the Blues pick up a guy like Killorn at the deadline (I've always loved his game) and I'm surprised to see that Bolts fans think he will either be traded or left unprotected. If Shattenkirk for Johnson is considered a reasonable basis for a trade, is there a palatable add on the Blues' part that gets Killorn added in the deal pre-TDL, whether that is someone useful in the lineup or just a different body to leave exposed in the expansion draft?

So, Johnson+Killorn for Shattenkirk+?

I like the premise of dealing Killorn for value back instead of exposing him, but we still have to win this season. We'd need a contributor who is expansion draft exempt to make it worthwhile

 

[Alklha]

I'd love to see the Blues pick up a guy like Killorn at the deadline (I've always loved his game) and I'm surprised to see that Bolts fans think he will either be traded or left unprotected. If Shattenkirk for Johnson is considered a reasonable basis for a trade, is there a palatable add on the Blues' part that gets Killorn added in the deal pre-TDL, whether that is someone useful in the lineup or just a different body to leave exposed in the expansion draft?

Unless we are moving Fabbri to centre, Killorn has no place on the Blues. We have Schwartz and Steen on LW going forward, we don't to be spending $4.45m on a player that forces us into makeshift lines to fit everyone in.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I'm totally good with TJ+Garrison for Shatty+Bergy at the TDL. TJ would fit in with Fabbri and Tarasenko, and I think Hedman and Shatty would complement each other very very well.

 

[MissouriMook]

Unless we are moving Fabbri to centre, Killorn has no place on the Blues. We have Schwartz and Steen on LW going forward, we don't to be spending $4.45m on a player that forces us into makeshift lines to fit everyone in.

I was thinking down the road of being without Berglund and Lehtera, and having Killer as our #3C who can play up in the Top 6 occasionally as necessary. I would see our Top 6 wingers as being Schwartz and Steen on the left side and Tarasenko and Fabbri on the right. Having Stastny between Steen and Fabbri would leave Johnson between Schwartz and Tarasenko. My thought was that Killer would be a great fit as #3C with Perron on LW. We'd likely have to send Jaskin or Yakupov back to TBL (along with a prospect or pick) with the survivor filling the #3RW spot.

 

[Alklha]

I was thinking down the road of being without Berglund and Lehtera, and having Killer as our #3C who can play up in the Top 6 occasionally as necessary. I would see our Top 6 wingers as being Schwartz and Steen on the left side and Tarasenko and Fabbri on the right. Having Stastny between Steen and Fabbri would leave Johnson between Schwartz and Tarasenko. My thought was that Killer would be a great fit as #3C with Perron on LW. We'd likely have to send Jaskin or Yakupov back to TBL (along with a prospect or pick) with the survivor filling the #3RW spot.

That makes more sense. Admittedly, I've not seen enough of Killorn at centre to comment.

 

[Rschmitz]

That makes more sense. Admittedly, I've not seen enough of Killorn at centre to comment.

He is a much better winger than center. In fact, I have never seen him play center so I don't know why he is listed as center on some sites

 

[BlueDream]

Alright so who's phoning Yzerman and Armstrong to complete this already?

 

[LetsGoBooze]

Would love to end up with both TJ and Drouin.

Shatty Berglund and Barbashev/1st?

 

[DFC]

He is a much better winger than center. In fact, I have never seen him play center so I don't know why he is listed as center on some sites

he played C a few years back (i think when 91 broke his leg) and he never did get his game back on track that year.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Like, what do we do now? I don't think we've ever been as far as agreeing on a trade.

We could argue about something else, I guess.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

We could argue about something else, I guess.

Nah, I'd rather not, I like you guys right now. lol.

 

[Rschmitz]

Would love to end up with both TJ and Drouin.

Shatty Berglund and Barbashev/1st?

Not close, Drouin isn't being dealt

 

[Vern]

Not sure im understanding this johnson for shattenkirk business. TJ= basically desharnais 4 years ago. larsson got hall and shatty is way better than larsson. seems to me a sign and trade shatty deal gets you way more than tj.. i guess if its just as a rental, but then wouldnt blues want some first round picks more than tj whose basically a rental as well? And before you jump all down my throat about the dd comparison i defy you to find a player that entered the league in the last 10 years with a more similar career path, size and stats. 4 years ago dd was very good and anglo habs fans only hated him because hes french. and you guys are talking about 5.5 x 5 years for this guy? good luck with that. to me shattenkirk for bishop would make more sense.

 

[Rschmitz]

Not sure im understanding this johnson for shattenkirk business. TJ= basically desharnais 4 years ago. larsson got hall and shatty is way better than larsson. seems to me a sign and trade shatty deal gets you way more than tj.. i guess if its just as a rental, but then wouldnt blues want some first round picks more than tj whose basically a rental as well? And before you jump all down my throat about the dd comparison i defy you to find a player that entered the league in the last 10 years with a more similar career path, size and stats. 4 years ago dd was very good and anglo habs fans only hated him because hes french. and you guys are talking about 5.5 x 5 years for this guy? good luck with that. to me shattenkirk for bishop would make more sense.

So, you believe Shattenkirk is worth Hall+?

 

[tjs*]

That isn't pretty. But....

On one hand you say we are losing all of these players in order to sign Shattenkirk

On the other hand, you are saying we only have Shattenkirk for a few months

You have to pick a side of the argument to make. Aside from those logical fallacies, what likely happens is we deal Garrison and/or Coburn and not Filppula. Regardless, swapping Johnson for Shattenkirk does not create the bleak outlook you outlined.

No, I'm saying we're already losing all these players due to the cap. Three big contracts in addition to Bishop have to go the way things stand now, just to afford the guys we already have; the general assumption is that they will be Filppula, Garrison, and Killorn but you can swap them with other players as you like. The point though is that we are losing these players even before you get into the issue of having to come up with additional money to afford Shattenkirk.

And there's no fallacy here. Trading Johnson only buys us a few months of Shattenkirk's services and an inside track on impressing him with our organization with the hopes of resigning him as a free agent - unless we're talking about a sign and trade you can't consider any additional years we might get from Shatty as part of the value of this trade since we could simply wait until the summer and try to sign him without giving up our de facto 1C for him.

 

[tjs*]

Not sure im understanding this johnson for shattenkirk business. TJ= basically desharnais 4 years ago. larsson got hall and shatty is way better than larsson. seems to me a sign and trade shatty deal gets you way more than tj.. i guess if its just as a rental, but then wouldnt blues want some first round picks more than tj whose basically a rental as well? And before you jump all down my throat about the dd comparison i defy you to find a player that entered the league in the last 10 years with a more similar career path, size and stats. 4 years ago dd was very good and anglo habs fans only hated him because hes french. and you guys are talking about 5.5 x 5 years for this guy? good luck with that. to me shattenkirk for bishop would make more sense.

Shattenkirk for Bishop would make a lot more sense as both are rentals, both can be replaced from within their respective organizations, and neither is likely to be resigned by his current team anyway. Don't know how Blues fans would feel about this but I'd do it as a Lightning fan.

 

[RandallRitchey]

Would prefer Coburn over Garrison.

Shattenkirk, Berglund, Ty Rattie for Johnson, Coburn, and Matthew Peca

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Would prefer Coburn over Garrison.

Shattenkirk, Berglund, Ty Rattie for Johnson, Coburn, and Matthew Peca

I agree that Coburn would be a better option than Garrison.

He can slot in as the 3rd pair RD.

I like this deal.

 

[tjs*]

You guys are just making a bad deal for Tampa even worse. No way.

 

[Rschmitz]

No, I'm saying we're already losing all these players due to the cap. Three big contracts in addition to Bishop have to go the way things stand now, just to afford the guys we already have; the general assumption is that they will be Filppula, Garrison, and Killorn but you can swap them with other players as you like. The point though is that we are losing these players even before you get into the issue of having to come up with additional money to afford Shattenkirk.

And there's no fallacy here. Trading Johnson only buys us a few months of Shattenkirk's services and an inside track on impressing him with our organization with the hopes of resigning him as a free agent - unless we're talking about a sign and trade you can't consider any additional years we might get from Shatty as part of the value of this trade since we could simply wait until the summer and try to sign him without giving up our de facto 1C for him.

Everything you just said is irrelevant because Johnson's and Shattenkirks potential 2017 salary virtually cancel each other out. All the other moving parts are still moving if you believe Johnson is on the team next season.

 

[Rschmitz]

Would prefer Coburn over Garrison.

Shattenkirk, Berglund, Ty Rattie for Johnson, Coburn, and Matthew Peca

Why include Rattie and Peca though?

 

[tjs*]

Everything you just said is irrelevant because Johnson's and Shattenkirks potential 2017 salary virtually cancel each other out. All the other moving parts are still moving if you believe Johnson is on the team next season.

First of all I very much doubt that Johnson will make as much as Shattenkirk next season. And second you're missing the point about those other moving parts - the point is that our forward corps next season is going to be weakened compared with how it is now and moving Johnson makes that even worse. Losing Johnson is bad enough as it is but when you consider that we're already looking at losing (let's say) Flip and Killorn it makes the loss of TJ even more unpalatable.

And while we have guys who could potentially replace Flip and Killorn (possible free agent signings aside the holes at 3C and 2LW can be filled by some combination of Point, Namestnikov, and possibly Gusev), I don't think anyone right now would be comfortable with the idea of Point or Vladdy as our 2C and just another Stamkos injury away from being our top center.

Finally you continue to ignore the fact that Johnson is an RFA who at the very least can almost certainly be brought back for another year and can most likely be resigned to a multi-year deal if we want to, whereas Shattenkirk is a UFA next summer and we have zero leverage on him or expectation that he will resign with us. At least a sign and trade with Shattenkirk would represent reasonable value, but a few months of Shatty is not worth our 1C in everything but name. Again, unless we think the addition of Shattenkirk is going to win us the Cup this season we'd be much better off waiting until the summer and signing him without giving anything up; if we also decide to move Johnson at that time we would at least be able to get a return for him that will last longer than a few months.

 

[RandallRitchey]

Why include Rattie and Peca though?

Rattie needs ice time and would get more of it with Tampa as they arebt as deep on the wing. He is better than Condra, more skilled than Brown and would be a nice fit on a line with Filppula. With the llikely loss of Killorn at the expansion draft, he would be a cheap replacement who can play in the NHL. He has shown he can play a skilled game, but Hitch is obsessed with shuffling the wingers and Rattie seems like the odd mom out because Yakupov has better speed and offensive instincts while Jaskin plays a bigger stronger game. He could flourish in Tampa.

Meanwhile, Peca is behind a slew of really good centers. He could be a really good 4th line C and could develop into a decent 3rd liner, but with the amount of center depth Tampa has (Stamkos, Johnson/or Berglund in this deal, Filppula, Namestnikov, Point, Boyle, AMD Paquette, he is kind of blocked. Meanwhile the center depth in St. Louis isn't as good, he would likely hair a better chance making it on a different team.

I would love to get Namestnikov, but I doubt head be available in a deal like this.

 

[Rschmitz]

First of all I very much doubt that Johnson will make as much as Shattenkirk next season. And second you're missing the point about those other moving parts - the point is that our forward corps next season is going to be weakened compared with how it is now and moving Johnson makes that even worse. Losing Johnson is bad enough as it is but when you consider that we're already looking at losing (let's say) Flip and Killorn it makes the loss of TJ even more unpalatable.

And while we have guys who could potentially replace Flip and Killorn (possible free agent signings aside the holes at 3C and 2LW can be filled by some combination of Point, Namestnikov, and possibly Gusev), I don't think anyone right now would be comfortable with the idea of Point or Vladdy as our 2C and just another Stamkos injury away from being our top center.

Finally you continue to ignore the fact that Johnson is an RFA who at the very least can almost certainly be brought back for another year and can most likely be resigned to a multi-year deal if we want to, whereas Shattenkirk is a UFA next summer and we have zero leverage on him or expectation that he will resign with us. At least a sign and trade with Shattenkirk would represent reasonable value, but a few months of Shatty is not worth our 1C in everything but name. Again, unless we think the addition of Shattenkirk is going to win us the Cup this season we'd be much better off waiting until the summer and signing him without giving anything up; if we also decide to move Johnson at that time we would at least be able to get a return for him that will last longer than a few months.

From one side of your mouth your are talking about keeping TJ in case Stamkos goes down, on the other side of your mouth you are advocating trading Bishop.

Tonights game should be an indication of how impossible it is to account for injuries.