Yea I just brought up Parise because he doesn't exactly have a good shot yet he has a shiton of goals.
Prospect Info: STI 2019 Draft Rankings, 1.0
- Thread starter StevenToddIves
- Start date
I'll always love Parise for his years of success and hard work for the Devils, and of course his huge late goal for Team USA to put us into overtime against Canada in the Olympic gold medal game. Just a high-character guy.
I think Turcotte has far greater upside. Every time I watch the kid, I'm impressed. He's incredibly skilled and talented, but his compete level and hockey IQ are off the charts -- he's like a one-man guide for "how to play hockey".
I'll take this oppurtunity to critique your ever optimistic view of these prospects.
But far greater upside then Parise? That's like full on sure fire HOF level.
Just realized Parise has now played as many seasons with the Wild as he did with NJ.
Man time flies.
Man time flies.
While I love Parise, he has exactly one season of 40+ goals and two seasons of 80+ points. He will go down as an excellent player, but not a Hall of Famer. But your criticism of my opinion is perfectly warranted, because I have Turcotte ranked higher than anyone else I have seen (#4).
Here's a video from Turcotte's IIHF highlights. If you don't have time to watch the entire video, watch his video-opening goal (which is simply astounding) and then go to 4:18 to see a series of amazing defensive highlights -- forechecking, shot-blocking, takeaways. The kid is just everywhere every time he's on the ice. It's very difficult not to admire the kid's game or to find flaw with him.
Point was Turcotte having far greater potential then Parise.
Parise has 6 30 goal seasons. Plus a 29 goal season in 67 games. Plus a 28 goal season this year. Seven 60 point season. 2 more 50 point seasons, and a 18-20-38 in 48 games short season.
Far greater potential then that is too big a statement.
Parise's success was 100% due to his work ethic and ridiculous compete level. He wasn't that skilled though. It's not that far-fetched to say someone who has the same compete level and the skills would be the better player.
Did you forget to link the video?
Did you forget to link the video?
Again, "far greater potential". This was a bit of needle at STI.
And while Parise is def a motor guy, let's not act like he purely grinded his way to a 94 point season.
Uh, he kind of did....all of his goals and assists were from ferocious forechecking and deflections, dude was master at those. But this is getting off topic.
ALL of his goals AND assists were off the forecheck and deflections? So Parise was an untalented grinder? Is that what we are going with?
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
- 24,232
- 18,090
I’ve been more keen on Cozens over Turcotte for several reasons:
1) He sounds like more of a pure goal scorer than Turcotte.
2) Versatility- may be able to play C/RW
3) Speed- not saying Turcotte isn’t quick but Cozens has fantastic speed for a big guy and may even have a slight edge in skating
4) Organizational Need/Redundancy vs Complementary Players: Not to say Nico won’t score goals but I see him more as a playmaker. Bratt is absolutely a creative pass first guy. While Zacha has a wicked shot, he has also displayed excellent vision with some slick passing this season. The jury is still out on what he will be. Goal scorer? Playmaker? Hybrid? I feel we could use another potentially elite sniper that would complement the likes of Nico/Bratt/Zacha. Not that you can have enough Nico type players but unless there’s something in Turcotte’s tool kit that vastly differentiates him from Nico, I’d prefer Cozens. The only “knock” I’ve seen on Cozens is he doesn’t create his own offense. This is a typical criticism of goal scorers. With the aforementioned (especially Nico and Bratt), I view Cozens as the perfect complement and he won’t have to do much “creating” anyway with those wizards.
With all of this said, I’d be lying if I wasn’t warming to Turcotte. It sounds like he has a high floor and ceiling. @StevenToddIves: You would be a terrific “hype man” for selling the merits of this kid, sir!!
1) He sounds like more of a pure goal scorer than Turcotte.
2) Versatility- may be able to play C/RW
3) Speed- not saying Turcotte isn’t quick but Cozens has fantastic speed for a big guy and may even have a slight edge in skating
4) Organizational Need/Redundancy vs Complementary Players: Not to say Nico won’t score goals but I see him more as a playmaker. Bratt is absolutely a creative pass first guy. While Zacha has a wicked shot, he has also displayed excellent vision with some slick passing this season. The jury is still out on what he will be. Goal scorer? Playmaker? Hybrid? I feel we could use another potentially elite sniper that would complement the likes of Nico/Bratt/Zacha. Not that you can have enough Nico type players but unless there’s something in Turcotte’s tool kit that vastly differentiates him from Nico, I’d prefer Cozens. The only “knock” I’ve seen on Cozens is he doesn’t create his own offense. This is a typical criticism of goal scorers. With the aforementioned (especially Nico and Bratt), I view Cozens as the perfect complement and he won’t have to do much “creating” anyway with those wizards.
With all of this said, I’d be lying if I wasn’t warming to Turcotte. It sounds like he has a high floor and ceiling. @StevenToddIves: You would be a terrific “hype man” for selling the merits of this kid, sir!!
A very good argument on your part for Cozens. I would disagree with the skating, I'd give Turcotte the slight edge there, though it's close. Turcotte has played some LW with Hughes, as well (though the Devils have a greater need for right-shooting wingers). And, though Cozens has very good puck skills/vision/two-way play, Turcotte beats him on all three of those facets. Cozens is more physical. Turcotte gets the nod in compete level, and that's saying a lot because Cozens has a very good compete level.
Like I said, I love both of these prospects. I had Cozens #4 overall two weeks ago, now it's Turcotte. But as I keep saying, the distance between my #3 and #9 is very thin this year. As a matter of fact, I think that the third tier of this draft lasts through #16 (Soderstrom), so it's a very impressive crop for the entire first half of the first round before leveling out a bit. I mean, Arthur Kaliyev or Cole Caulfield have solid chances of being the best pure goal scorers in this entire draft class and neither of them even made my top 10. That's how highly I see the overall games of guys like Zegras, Krebs and Dach.
Actually, no if I were to describe him it'd be a talented grinder. Obviously he had some skilled plays but for the most part he got the "dirty goals". I can't remember many moment where I was like "damn that was sick", I was just happy cuz the devils got another goal. With hall for example though, a lot of times i'm very impressed.
In the end though, different types of players but same production.
This is actually the first time I've seen this. I have a hard time believing Cozens is faster than Turcotte. Turcotte is really fast.
Brooklyndevil
Registered User
The Russian kid seems like he’s going to be a beast. I have no problem if Shero takes him.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
Isn’t his lack of production plus his desire not to come to NA anytime soon huge red flags?
I think I'd rather see Shero pull one of his 2nd + 3rd for a prime player trades, but barring that, it looks like just drafting with all the picks we have could land us some nice talent. It's really a difficult position to screw up.
Stephen Gionta
Boston College > Boston University
I'd rather Ray use these draft picks this year for two reasons. In fact, I want him to acquire even more draft picks if possible.
Reason 1: The draft is looking like a very deep draft. 2015esque deep. The more picks you have, the more chances at a home run pick.
Reason 2: There is an abundance of Palmieri/Johansson type players available in UFA this summer. I don't think it makes sense to give up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for a 24/25 year old. I'd rather just use cap space and sign a 26/27 year old instead. There are so many top 6 forwards available this summer, one of them is bound to sign with NJD.
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
If there is a trade to be made you make it. You don’t say no because you might sign a free agent.
Missionhockey
Registered User
I think I've heard Brayden Point used as a comparison for Turcotte. I don't know if it's accurate and I don't remember where it's from so take it with a grain of salt (shrugs).
Also, a common comparison I heard for Matthews before the draft was Kopitar. I'd bet the only thing those two players have in common is that they're both tall and are centers so frankly, you should take all comparisons with a grain of salt. There will never be another Datysuk (another common comparison thrown for skinny kids).
Also, a common comparison I heard for Matthews before the draft was Kopitar. I'd bet the only thing those two players have in common is that they're both tall and are centers so frankly, you should take all comparisons with a grain of salt. There will never be another Datysuk (another common comparison thrown for skinny kids).
Emperoreddy
Show Me What You Got!
BurntToast
Registered User
There is no redundancy with Turcotte when Zacha is the Devils’ 2c and scoring less than 30pts. The biggest knock on Cozens is his IQ from my understanding. He tends to get hemmed up coming up the ice. He doesn’t drive play? While versatility is fine he might be better suited for wing. Turcotte might be the only “true” center in the top 5. Hughes is small, Kakko/Cozens will probably be wings and then there is Byram. I argue while Nico is a great 2-Way player and a great playmaker he is still improving as a center. He gets bullied from time to time, his face offs are a work in progress.Many thought he would end up on the wing. I feel Turcotte is a better “Center” at the same stage.
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