STH TPA Renewal 2020

[Gm0ney]

The thing is most of these concerns are really customer service based... and that is something True North can control and improve upon.

Yes they need to do better in that area for sure. But the thing is, once you've lost a customer, it's difficult to win them back.

 

[drumzan]

I think it was few seasons ago where they gave us $10 on our Season Ticket Cards. When i went to use mine it was expired...that was the same fn season!! Why have an expiry on it, wtf

I couldn’t use mine because none of the vendor employees knew how to use it. And the one that did said the system normally doesn’t work...which was the case when they tried for me.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I couldn’t use mine because none of the vendor employees knew how to use it. And the one that did said the system normally doesn’t work...which was the case when they tried for me.

You'd almost think this organization had its origins in the minor leagues.

 

[SCP Guy]

The tank is broken.... It's gonna be a sneak into the playoffs or pick in the teens......boooooooerns

Edit.. .. Opps sorry I was drinking last night and posting in wrong forums

 

[Sabadecade]

I didn't get a renewal email or a playoff tickets email because I choose not to get "Jets News"

I shouldn't be forced to become proactive on major account decisions that require action just because I choose not to receive their newsletter. Customers receiving critical news second hand reflects very poor customer service.

Truth is, they don't send very many "newsletters" and swiping left on a newsletter once in a while is better than missing out on important account information, IMHO. It's really not THAT inconvenient!

However, having said the above, TNSE should warn STH of this glitch and/or make a better effort to ensure important information gets to the main account holder.

 

[Sabadecade]

As for Pre-Season being "forced" onto STH, just because complaining about it is a little bit of a pet peeve of mine. I posted this in the Wait List thread at the beginning of the season...

Just for fun, Let's say the games aren't really worth the published "face value"...
(Note: The prices I used were based on the 2018-19 Loge prices.)

Season Ticket Total					$ 6,417.00
Total Games					45
Therefore Season Ticket Price per ticket is					$ 142.60
	Qty.	Face Value	Face Markup	Let's say this is the "Acutal Value"	Face Value Sub Totals	Actual Value Sub Totals
A+ Games	4	$ 242.50	170%	$ 242.50	$ 970.00	$ 970.00
A Games	19	$ 221.00	155%	$ 206.74	$ 4,199.00	$ 3,928.06
B Games	11	$ 206.75	145%	$ 178.23	$ 2,274.25	$ 1,960.53
C Games	7	$ 185.50	130%	$ 142.72	$ 1,298.50	$ 999.04
Pre-Season Games	4	$ 164.00	115%	$ 49.92	$ 656.00	$ 199.68
Totals	45				$ 9,397.75	$ 8,057.31
A Total Season Seat Savings of:					$ 2,980.75	$ 1,640.31
					32%	20%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

In the end, it's all just "rearranging the deck chairs". Any way you slice it, as an STH you still get a discount. It may not be as big as you thought it was, but then, if you've always valued the pre-season games less than the "face value" then, you have nothing to complain about. TN hasn't changed anything and they aren't about to start now either.

 

[Gm0ney]

As for Pre-Season being "forced" onto STH, just because complaining about it is a little bit of a pet peeve of mine. I posted this in the Wait List thread at the beginning of the season...

I think you're being generous with your actual value numbers. The A+ games might be worth face value. Just about everything else is available at STH cost (except preseasons, which have a market value far below STH cost).

Season Ticket Total					$ 6,417.00
Total Games					45
Therefore Season Ticket Price per ticket is					$ 142.60
	Qty.	Face Value	Face Markup	Fair Market Value	Face Value Sub Totals	FMV subtotals
A+ Games	4	$ 242.50	170%	$ 242.50	$ 970.00	$ 970.00
A Games	19	$ 221.00	155%	$ 142.60	$ 4,199.00	$ 2,709.40
B Games	11	$ 206.75	145%	$ 142.60	$ 2,274.25	$ 1,568.60
C Games	7	$ 185.50	130%	$ 142.60	$ 1,298.50	$ 998.02
Pre-Season Games	4	$ 164.00	115%	$ 50.00	$ 656.00	$ 200.00
Totals	45				$ 9,397.75	$ 6,466.02
A Total Season Seat Savings of:					$ 2,980.75	$ 49.02
					32%	0.7%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The advantages of being a STH are:
- First right of refusal on your seats for the playoffs
- 15% off a Jets Gear
- Jets Rewards points
- 0.7% savings over FMV

The disadvantages:
- $500, $750 or $1000 deposit on each seat
- Multi-year commitment

The following might be viewed either advantages or disadvantages:
- You get the same seats every game
- You're guaranteed every home game / on the hook for every home game

Edit: I guess another advantage would be temporary protection from annual increases over the amount set in the season seat agreement - but that only exists for the term of the agreement. As soon as it's renewal time, they'll catch you up. You do have the option to walk away at that point. It's a fairly minor benefit compared to the commitment you're making...

 

[Sabadecade]

I think you're being generous with your actual value numbers. The A+ games might be worth face value. Just about everything else is available at STH cost (except preseasons, which have a market value far below STH cost).

Season Ticket Total					$ 6,417.00
Total Games					45
Therefore Season Ticket Price per ticket is					$ 142.60
	Qty.	Face Value	Face Markup	Fair Market Value	Face Value Sub Totals	FMV subtotals
A+ Games	4	$ 242.50	170%	$ 242.50	$ 970.00	$ 970.00
A Games	19	$ 221.00	155%	$ 142.60	$ 4,199.00	$ 2,709.40
B Games	11	$ 206.75	145%	$ 142.60	$ 2,274.25	$ 1,568.60
C Games	7	$ 185.50	130%	$ 142.60	$ 1,298.50	$ 998.02
Pre-Season Games	4	$ 164.00	115%	$ 50.00	$ 656.00	$ 200.00
Totals	45				$ 9,397.75	$ 6,466.02
A Total Season Seat Savings of:					$ 2,980.75	$ 49.02
					32%	0.7%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The advantages of being a STH are:
- First right of refusal on your seats for the playoffs
- 15% off a Jets Gear
- Jets Rewards points
- 0.7% savings over FMV

The disadvantages:
- $500, $750 or $1000 deposit on each seat
- Multi-year commitment

The following might be viewed either advantages or disadvantages:
- You get the same seats every game
- You're guaranteed every home game / on the hook for every home game

Edit: I guess another advantage would be temporary protection from annual increases over the amount set in the season seat agreement - but that only exists for the term of the agreement. As soon as it's renewal time, they'll catch you up. You do have the option to walk away at that point. It's a fairly minor benefit compared to the commitment you're making...

I love this response, and you're right, at this moment there is a saturation of STH priced tickets on the secondary market contributing to the devaluation of the ticket price. As a result, over the last two years, there hasn't much in terms of advantage or "benefit" to being an STH.

I'll gamble and see how it goes, next year. I suspect with less STH being overextended or disinterested, there will be less of them forced/willing to sell at or below STH cost, the secondary market will heat up a bit and bring the price back up a little and possibly better reflect the true face value (somewhere in between what TNSE labels it but not as low as STH cost). Don't get me wrong, tickets to games will be readily available and there will still be some at cost, just way less of them than there are today.

Also, I expect (hope) TNSE will do a little more by way of STH benefits. Perhaps they can afford to do more since there will be less overall STH? Perhaps the STH price will freeze while TNSE sells mini-packs at discount (but not as much as the STH discount). We'll see what they come up with...

 

[cheswick]

I love this response, and you're right, at this moment there is a saturation of STH priced tickets on the secondary market contributing to the devaluation of the ticket price. As a result, over the last two years, there hasn't much in terms of advantage or "benefit" to being an STH.

I'll gamble and see how it goes, next year. I suspect with less STH being overextended or disinterested, there will be less of them forced/willing to sell at or below STH cost, the secondary market will heat up a bit and bring the price back up a little and possibly better reflect the true face value (somewhere in between what TNSE labels it but not as low as STH cost). Don't get me wrong, tickets to games will be readily available and there will still be some at cost, just way less of them than there are today.

Also, I expect (hope) TNSE will do a little more by way of STH benefits. Perhaps they can afford to do more since there will be less overall STH? Perhaps the STH price will freeze while TNSE sells mini-packs at discount (but not as much as the STH discount). We'll see what they come up with...

The only discount they've given on mini packs thus far is saving of the ticketmaster fees I believe.

 

[wpgfishfan]

I love this response, and you're right, at this moment there is a saturation of STH priced tickets on the secondary market contributing to the devaluation of the ticket price. As a result, over the last two years, there hasn't much in terms of advantage or "benefit" to being an STH.

I'll gamble and see how it goes, next year. I suspect with less STH being overextended or disinterested, there will be less of them forced/willing to sell at or below STH cost, the secondary market will heat up a bit and bring the price back up a little and possibly better reflect the true face value (somewhere in between what TNSE labels it but not as low as STH cost). Don't get me wrong, tickets to games will be readily available and there will still be some at cost, just way less of them than there are today.

Also, I expect (hope) TNSE will do a little more by way of STH benefits. Perhaps they can afford to do more since there will be less overall STH? Perhaps the STH price will freeze while TNSE sells mini-packs at discount (but not as much as the STH discount). We'll see what they come up with...

The Jets will start to lower the game by game single ticket costs as they won't sell out with a smaller season ticket base. So we will see what is out there next year

 

[Eyeseeing]

Report to sick bay, I'll call Dr. McCoy.

I love this post a lot
You wouldn’t understand tho

 

[KingBogo]

The Jets will start to lower the game by game single ticket costs as they won't sell out with a smaller season ticket base. So we will see what is out there next year

I don't know if this will happen yet as there are still people on the season ticket wait list. I know of 2 people who are on the wait list anxiously waiting there opportunity to get season tickets.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I don't know if this will happen yet as there are still people on the season ticket wait list. I know of 2 people who are on the wait list anxiously waiting there opportunity to get season tickets.

OK, I'm honestly not trying to be snarky when I ask this but... are they going into this from a position of knowledge? Unless these are superfans, they won't be going to every game. Do they have a committed group of people to share with? If not, do they understand that the resale market is pretty weak and they might have trouble selling games? Especially if they are looking to sell for profit. You refer to these as people "you know". If these were people I considered friends, I would be making sure they were going into this with their eyes wide open. I mean, anyone getting season ticket opportunities at this stage should realize, they are only getting this chance because a shit load of people have bailed because they realize it just isn't worth it to them any more.

 

[KingBogo]

OK, I'm honestly not trying to be snarky when I ask this but... are they going into this from a position of knowledge? Unless these are superfans, they won't be going to every game. Do they have a committed group of people to share with? If not, do they understand that the resale market is pretty weak and they might have trouble selling games? Especially if they are looking to sell for profit. You refer to these as people "you know". If these were people I considered friends, I would be making sure they were going into this with their eyes wide open. I mean, anyone getting season ticket opportunities at this stage should realize, they are only getting this chance because a shit load of people have bailed because they realize it just isn't worth it to them any more.

There are a lot of people with ST holders that are just fine with the current set up, including the 4 people in our ST group and about another dozen or so ST holders that I know personally. IMO this thread doesn't come close to representing the core group of life time ST holders that TNSE relies on. Those that have the financial means that they really don't really care about the incremental price increases or token giveaways. They like having their seats and don't sweat the secondary market because the tickets get used up by those in there circle of friends, family, co-workers and employees (usually given away).

The question is are their enough people/corporations in a small market like Winnipeg that are well positioned to be lifetime ST holders. Again IMO TNSE is okay grinding through the current ST base that are not ideal ST holders. They had no control of who bought up the 13,000 available tickets that were snapped up when we got the team but no doubt they knew many were going to people who couldn't maintain the costs year to year. As we are seeing it is unsustainable to be a ST holder if it causes a financial hardship for you. Eventually you will rely on the secondary market to support the cost out lay, but as that softens with time it no longer makes sense to struggle financially to be a ST holder as you can go to games on an individual bases at a cost frequency that suits you. This is fine and is what should happen.

Again IMO TNSE foresaw this but will continue with their business model as they as stated from day one that the Jets would be run as a business with an operating profit. At some point if Winnipeg demonstrates it can no longer afford a professional hockey team it will be sold and moved to a market that has the population and corporation base that can sustain a team over the long run. Just like any other business.

 

[misterman]

There are a lot of people with ST holders that are just fine with the current set up, including the 4 people in our ST group and about another dozen or so ST holders that I know personally. IMO this thread doesn't come close to representing the core group of life time ST holders that TNSE relies on. Those that have the financial means that they really don't really care about the incremental price increases or token giveaways. They like having their seats and don't sweat the secondary market because the tickets get used up by those in there circle of friends, family, co-workers and employees (usually given away).

The question is are their enough people/corporations in a small market like Winnipeg that are well positioned to be lifetime ST holders. Again IMO TNSE is okay grinding through the current ST base that are not ideal ST holders. They had no control of who bought up the 13,000 available tickets that were snapped up when we got the team but no doubt they knew many were going to people who couldn't maintain the costs year to year. As we are seeing it is unsustainable to be a ST holder if it causes a financial hardship for you. Eventually you will rely on the secondary market to support the cost out lay, but as that softens with time it no longer makes sense to struggle financially to be a ST holder as you can go to games on an individual bases at a cost frequency that suits you. This is fine and is what should happen.

Again IMO TNSE foresaw this but will continue with their business model as they as stated from day one that the Jets would be run as a business with an operating profit. At some point if Winnipeg demonstrates it can no longer afford a professional hockey team it will be sold and moved to a market that has the population and corporation base that can sustain a team over the long run. Just like any other business.

I would not want this team to leave, and do like my seats. I go to about 12 to 15 games a year. I enjoy giving tickets to friends or family that would otherwise consider it a non necessity cost. Someone approached me to share the seats and things have worked out. TNSE know what they're doing. Too many complainers around these parts. I hear no complaints when chatting in the concourse during the games.

 

[JetsCameHome]

I would not want this team to leave, and do like my seats. I go to about 12 to 15 games a year. I enjoy giving tickets to friends or family that would otherwise consider it a non necessity cost. Someone approached me to share the seats and things have worked out. TNSE know what they're doing. Too many complainers around these parts. I hear no complaints when chatting in the concourse during the games.

Why would they complain? They just bought tickets for cheaper than I can as a season ticket holder.

 

[cbcwpg]

I in no way have any technical issue paying whatever I have to to keep my season tickets, but I do have an issue in that if I put the effort in, I can go to every game that I go to as a STH for less than it currently costs me as a STH for the same level of seats That’s the problem.

ask other markets how it’s worked out for them in the long term when the loyal STH goes to a game paying $X , and finds out the person sitting beside them paid $Y, and $Y is a lot less.

 

[blues10]

I am as loyal as they get. I bleed Jets. Never gave up hope that a team would return. Honeymooned in Arizona and took my wife to Coyotes games wearing Jets jerseys, went to the Vancouver Olympics to see Teemu play wearing Jets jerseys. I have no issues paying the costs of my season tickets in P3, my income has been a victim of the wage freeze but my wife has more than made up for it with her income.

However, I don’t have $$$$ to burn. It makes no financial sense to keep my season tickets.

I can buy secondary market for at or below SSH costs and not throw money away when I can’t make a game. It’s nice that people can give friends and family a pair of $260 seats (SSH costs) to a game for free. My wife and myself have decent incomes but giving away about 3 pairs of tickets a season and another $500 in lost money for my 2 pre-season games I get, makes absolutely zero financial sense. I am not into subsidizing my family and friends going to Jets game. That’s a -$1250 . Money much better invested in my kids education plan.

I did get a $486 Tax receipt for the 4 pre-season tickets I donated to charity. My friends and family aren’t charity cases and don’t need my free tickets.

As a friend of mine said to me who also has ST. When they lose guys like us as STH things may not be good.” What he meant was we are die hard fans with financial means to keep our ST. We are leaving because it makes zero financial sense to keep them. The value is currently in the secondary market. Will it change? It will likely adjust a little bit, but you will always be able to buy tickets on game day on the secondary market for SSH costs or below. I expect the same for playoff tickets right up to a Stanley Cup final will also easily be had. This market will be no different than any other sports market for ticket prices on game day . Look what happens to concert ticket prices as the time counts down to the event. The price falls. If I want tickets in advance to see Crosby, Ovi or McDavid I will buy them. If I want cheap tickets to a game I will wait out the secondary market. The secondary market was $100 for Ovi and Crosby in P3 this season. $50 a game for a pair less than I paid as a SSH.

I do believe TNSE could add a simple benefit to SSH that many other SSH in other markets currently have. Ticket trade back. The ability to trade up to 5 games a year back for tickets to another game could really help with ticket burning or SSH selling way below cost. Another perk SSH have in other markets is the ability to buy additional seats to games at SSH costs. These would be 2 perks that may keep me around.

At this point when I am up
In 2 years I am gone. The Jets are going to have to come up with something to keep me and others around who see no financial advantage to being a SSH.

My 2 cents.

 

[blues10]

OK, I'm honestly not trying to be snarky when I ask this but... are they going into this from a position of knowledge? Unless these are superfans, they won't be going to every game. Do they have a committed group of people to share with? If not, do they understand that the resale market is pretty weak and they might have trouble selling games? Especially if they are looking to sell for profit. You refer to these as people "you know". If these were people I considered friends, I would be making sure they were going into this with their eyes wide open. I mean, anyone getting season ticket opportunities at this stage should realize, they are only getting this chance because a shit load of people have bailed because they realize it just isn't worth it to them any more.

A group of my friends got in off the wait list and this was their 1st season as SSH. They had failed to get tickets during the initial drive to 13000. About half way through this season they wanted out already. The main reason is that they were burning tickets to games they couldn’t make. 1st game they burnt was Oct 22 vs the Kings. They are all in careers and have the money and the tickets are P5 but they just don’t like the idea of wasting money.

They are discussing just walking away after year 1. I don’t think that is possible without facing the wrath of TNSE.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

what they are doing is pricing out the true fan by gouging them with as much as they can get away with.

What they are going to end up with is a corporate lower bowel..... that write off the expense and do not care that they are over charged as it is is a expense through their business.

Problem is that Wpg does not have the largest corporate base..... and the corporate base they do have are cheap.....

I just signed up a week ago and will be paying considerable more next year than I was this year...

I am not cheap nor do I fret small increases.... but I notice when I pay with a large bill and receive no change.........

TnSe next step in their $ gouging is to say they are a service and demand a 15 % tip on top of there STH price and 20-25% if you can afford it....

If you tip more than the mandatory 15% you get a free passport holder......

Bull sheep.......

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

A group of my friends got in off the wait list and this was their 1st season as SSH. They had failed to get tickets during the initial drive to 13000. About half way through this season they wanted out already. The main reason is that they were burning tickets to games they couldn’t make. 1st game they burnt was Oct 22 vs the Kings. They are all in careers and have the money and the tickets are P5 but they just don’t like the idea of wasting money.

They are discussing just walking away after year 1. I don’t think that is possible without facing the wrath of TNSE.

Oh man, I'm just waiting for the day that a pissed off STH who can afford an army of top notch lawyers decides to challenge True North's enforcement of their TPA. I wonder if TNSE would have the belly for a court case? Best case, they get to shake the coins out of one STH pockets for a couple more years. Worst case, thousands of dissatisfied customers realize they can give True North the middle finger and walk away. Hey, Mr Chipman...

 

[JetsNut]

A group of my friends got in off the wait list and this was their 1st season as SSH. They had failed to get tickets during the initial drive to 13000. About half way through this season they wanted out already. The main reason is that they were burning tickets to games they couldn’t make. 1st game they burnt was Oct 22 vs the Kings. They are all in careers and have the money and the tickets are P5 but they just don’t like the idea of wasting money.

They are discussing just walking away after year 1. I don’t think that is possible without facing the wrath of TNSE.

Feeling the wrath of TNSE? Did they not willingly sign a contract for these tickets? Are you suggesting that TNSE simply forgive all contracts with whom ever changes their mind?

 

[JetsNut]

Oh man, I'm just waiting for the day that a pissed off STH who can afford an army of top notch lawyers decides to challenge True North's enforcement of their TPA. I wonder if TNSE would have the belly for a court case? Best case, they get to shake the coins out of one STH pockets for a couple more years. Worst case, thousands of dissatisfied customers realize they can give True North the middle finger and walk away. Hey, Mr Chipman...

What is there to challenge? You willingly signed a contract with them which constituted a commitment on an agreed term. How could you possibly paint TNSE in a bad light? Did they trick these people into signing?

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

What is there to challenge? You willingly signed a contract with them which constituted a commitment on an agreed term. How could you possibly paint TNSE in a bad light? Did they trick these people into signing?

That's a question for lawyers. Maybe there's a technicality that got overlooked. Maybe there's something in there that violates consumer protection laws. Could be a lot of things. Law isn't always a black and white thing. Sometimes, interpretation is needed. That's why lawyers and judges get the big bucks. Sure, maybe TNSE has an airtight, unbreakable contract but no way to know until someone tries. I expect most people get scared off at the thought of big legal bills, and the fact that a big corporation can afford better lawyers. I'll tell you, if anyone starts a Go Fund me campaign to take on True North, I would chip in some money. This org is in serious need of a come to Jesus moment to get it treating its core supporters better.

 

[JetsNut]

That's a question for lawyers. Maybe there's a technicality that got overlooked. Maybe there's something in there that violates consumer protection laws. Could be a lot of things. Law isn't always a black and white thing. Sometimes, interpretation is needed. That's why lawyers and judges get the big bucks. Sure, maybe TNSE has an airtight, unbreakable contract but no way to know until someone tries. I expect most people get scared off at the thought of big legal bills, and the fact that a big corporation can afford better lawyers. I'll tell you, if anyone starts a Go Fund me campaign to take on True North, I would chip in some money. This org is in serious need of a come to Jesus moment to get it treating its core supporters better.

Aren’t you a season ticket holder?