The Sun: Steve Simmons on "Driving players out of town"

[deletethis]

Some of this is lying by omission.

We are told that Larry Murphy was booed out of town. What we're not told is that Murphy's coach Mike Murphy (never hired to coach in the NHL again) was very friendly with the Toronto media. Coach Murphy and defenseman Murphy did not get along. Coach "we don't have the talent to play that way" Murphy constantly floated negativity about Larry Murphy to the media. The media never questioned the coach and repeated the sentiment that Larry Murphy was struggling. Fans being human that they are, believe what they read and acted upon it by booing the player.

McDonald/Sittler were products of an era where the owner (Ballard) would wine and dine his media "friends". There were many times that the newspaper guys were tying one on at the local hotel or racetrack bar. When it was time that Ballard wanted to move the players, Ballard's media cronies floated negative stories about the beloved star players. The implication that the media wasn't somewhat complicit is a lie.

The media definitely played a part in the firing of Pat Burns and Roger Neilson. The media welcome to John Ferguson Jr. was nasty, they subtly mocked him from the start (not that they were wrong). The media have long stoked the fire of the "trade for this available star" and the "Toronto isn't patience enough to go through a rebuild" narratives.

 

[Critical13]

I refuse to give this dweeb a click.

 

[colchar]

Sure Steve, keep your head up your ass and believe the media is full of angels you dumb arrogant prick.

You missed his point.

He wasn't saying the media were angels, he was saying that the media hasn't been the cause of players leaving town.

 

[colchar]

.guess where do many fans get their info about players and how they are playing?

From watching games.

 

[hotpaws]

Do you remember when our team broke records and took a cup favorite to 7 and people threatened the life of a player. Just like last time when it was all Burke’s fault?
Who’s fault it is it now? We got the rebuild. And it has went perfectly. And we are still whining and threatening and angry. And the media is STILL picking fights. Just like i told you.


Honestly. How many times do you have to be proven wrong before you admit it. The media reads here. Simmons just proved it. The fans fuel the media and cause issues and limit the amount that players want to play here.

Try it. Say. I was wrong. It’s not hard.

what you told me endlessly was that the Leafs can't build a winner in Toronto due to the toxic media

and you've been proven wrong so now you're trying to move the goal posts

 

[hotpaws]

You're right.
Hypotheticals will win you your argument here.
In reality, Kessel has not only been a significant factor in back to back Stanley Cups, he was also likely jobbed for the Conn Smythe for one of those runs.
It's also possible that the "cancer in the room" who is "the worst player in the league" might win a 3rd consecutive cup after posting his best season (92 pts) in his 3rd year in Pittsburgh. Remember how Kessel's body was finished prior to him being traded? Remember how he'd be nothing more than a 50-60 point guy whose body would fall off a cliff?

You're the people that Simmons writes for.

Dwell on that.

the sad thing is you jumped into a conversation to defend a poster who's cheering for the Leafs to lose so he can some how spin it as an excuse to defend the disastrous Keesel era in Toronto

 

[Legion34]

what you told me endlessly was that the Leafs can't build a winner in Toronto due to the toxic media

and you've been proven wrong so now you're trying to move the goal posts

Nope. I said it at the start the second we got Matthews. We have the most talent I can remember in 25 years. I said that the second there is a slump or “failure” the pitchforks will be out and it will make it a heck of a lot harder to win. Look at what we are seeing. It’s happening again.

The other poster is right. If people like you weren’t around to feed it, the media monster would not be as big.

 

[Morbo]

Reimer's mom, putting Kadri on the cover with a soother in his mouth, Phil and the hot dogs...

it goes on and on.

players don't like that stuff, whether Steve chooses to acknowledge it or not.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Someone should drive Simmons out of town

 

[nsleaf]

Nope. I said it at the start the second we got Matthews. We have the most talent I can remember in 25 years. I said that the second there is a slump or “failure” the pitchforks will be out and it will make it a heck of a lot harder to win. Look at what we are seeing. It’s happening again.

The other poster is right. If people like you weren’t around to feed it, the media monster would not be as big.

Nothing new with Toronto media and a very passionate fan base, but I don't buy the make it a heck of a lot harder to win slant. This same old debate comes up every year and it is asinine at best. Your basically saying the fan base are too opinionated.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Burke made the whole problem worse with the media. He'd get into battles with them. Under the new regime (and a better team) guys like Cox and Simmons mean nothing

 

[hotpaws]

Nope. I said it at the start the second we got Matthews. We have the most talent I can remember in 25 years. I said that the second there is a slump or “failure” the pitchforks will be out and it will make it a heck of a lot harder to win. Look at what we are seeing. It’s happening again.

The other poster is right. If people like you weren’t around to feed it, the media monster would not be as big.

no i'll repeat again , you said it's impossible to build a winner in Toronto due to the toxic fans and the pressure from the media

also discussing how the team can improve isn't getting the pitchforks out , it's simply understanding the team needs to improve/make changes to take the next step instead of just assuming we can get there with the exact same lineup and just a little more experience from our kids

i''ll guarantee you our mgmt/coach team are already discussing the performance of the players and how to add the necessary pieces to get the team to the next level

and who cares what Simmonds/Kipper have to say ? you give way to much weight to the opinions a few media people who most fans to couldn't even tell you what they said

 

[Legion34]

no i'll repeat again , you said it's impossible to build a winner in Toronto due to the toxic fans and the pressure from the media

also discussing how the team can improve isn't getting the pitchforks out , it's simply understanding the team needs to improve/make changes to take the next step instead of just assuming we can get there with the exact same lineup and just a little more experience from our kids

i''ll guarantee you our mgmt/coach team are already discussing the performance of the players and how to add the necessary pieces to get the team to the next level

and who cares what Simmonds/Kipper have to say ? you give way to much weight to the opinions a few media people who most fans to couldn't even tell you what they said

Show me where I said impossible. I don’t remember that at all. Media and fan base contribute to the toxic environment and make it more difficult. It is clearly seen.

“Auston matthews disappearing act... the coach lost the players” “no heart American”....death threats to gardiner. Those seem like rational and thought provoking topics.

Look at how people react here on an anonymous message board. They get angry and argue into the middle of the night Having to deal with bs arguments and fighting with the media doesn’t help. We need every advantage we can get.

In a cap system, teams pay the same money. Having to deal with the media and ridiculous fans death threats isn’t for everyone. If it makes the slightest difference, and in my opinion it’s a big difference. What is the point.

Doughty already unprovoked said that he didn’t want to deal with the fans and media. What more proof do you need in a cost benefit?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Nothing new with Toronto media and a very passionate fan base, but I don't buy the make it a heck of a lot harder to win slant. This same old debate comes up every year and it is asinine at best. Your basically saying the fan base are too opinionated.

because it's not. it's a dumb excuse - Brendan Shanahan flat out said it was a dumb excuse.
It's not hard to win here. It's hard to lose here, and not perform to your potential - to which, I would argue in any market where it is the dominant sport, you can say that.

If you want to argue that the media is dumb - that's one thing (what people (i noticed Volcanologist bring this up - the writers don't have any say what the picture is gonna be . that's on the sun, not whoever wrote the article. I was out of the country for the Reimer's mom thing so I can't talk about it, and i'll just have everyone know - the hot dog thing was what y'all blew up, it was one line about the hot dog guy missing Phil because he stopped by there often or whatever it is.

I think what the underlying issue is, is that people feel that this drives people out of town. Which, i personally feel it does not. I am not going to discount that some people feel that this can be an issue, but they're generally looking at it from the outside and most of them come from markets where hockey means jacksquat so it's 1 beat reporter, and a mention maybe after every other sport.

Clarke (who also, i might add got a lot of "Media" thrown his way) said when you grow up in the market it's different, and even when you come back, you just tune it out. (also. I will also point out people/players wanna slam the media, but when the media plays agent for the player, notice it's all roses and happiness? No one quibbling when they use the media to get their intentions out in the world,, or lobbying for votes for an award. but when it's being critical or saying something not nice, it's "ughh. media. you're so stupid." It's give and take).

if management decides to move a player because the fan base doesnt like them, or the media doesn't like them (OR a coach), then that management corps is stupid. if people want to believe that Toronto is the only place where a good chunk of the vocal fanbase (if they are even fans) say incredibly stupid things, death threats, etc, then you are incredibly naive. And if you think this means that the media can't be critical (they can present this in a better light, i'll never argue you that), nor the fanbase, then i've got nothing for you. because everything gets criticised. If they were actors and it was a crap performance, it would be slagged. if it was a song and they butchered it, same thing. You don't get a mulligan because you play a sport and you want them to do well.

 

[Sniper99]

Reimer's mom, putting Kadri on the cover with a soother in his mouth, Phil and the hot dogs...

it goes on and on.

players don't like that stuff, whether Steve chooses to acknowledge it or not.

Wasn't that Feschuk that called Reimer's Mom? There's another ******* that can go away.

 

[Legion34]

because it's not. it's a dumb excuse - Brendan Shanahan flat out said it was a dumb excuse.
It's not hard to win here. It's hard to lose here, and not perform to your potential - to which, I would argue in any market where it is the dominant sport, you can say that.

If you want to argue that the media is dumb - that's one thing (what people (i noticed Volcanologist bring this up - the writers don't have any say what the picture is gonna be . that's on the sun, not whoever wrote the article. I was out of the country for the Reimer's mom thing so I can't talk about it, and i'll just have everyone know - the hot dog thing was what y'all blew up, it was one line about the hot dog guy missing Phil because he stopped by there often or whatever it is.

I think what the underlying issue is, is that people feel that this drives people out of town. Which, i personally feel it does not. I am not going to discount that some people feel that this can be an issue, but they're generally looking at it from the outside and most of them come from markets where hockey means jacksquat so it's 1 beat reporter, and a mention maybe after every other sport.

Clarke (who also, i might add got a lot of "Media" thrown his way) said when you grow up in the market it's different, and even when you come back, you just tune it out. (also. I will also point out people/players wanna slam the media, but when the media plays agent for the player, notice it's all roses and happiness? No one quibbling when they use the media to get their intentions out in the world,, or lobbying for votes for an award. but when it's being critical or saying something not nice, it's "ughh. media. you're so stupid." It's give and take).

if management decides to move a player because the fan base doesnt like them, or the media doesn't like them (OR a coach), then that management corps is stupid. if people want to believe that Toronto is the only place where a good chunk of the vocal fanbase (if they are even fans) say incredibly stupid things, death threats, etc, then you are incredibly naive. And if you think this means that the media can't be critical (they can present this in a better light, i'll never argue you that), nor the fanbase, then i've got nothing for you. because everything gets criticised. If they were actors and it was a crap performance, it would be slagged. if it was a song and they butchered it, same thing. You don't get a mulligan because you play a sport and you want them to do well.

You keep missing the basic point. It doesn’t matter what happens in football or baseball etc. The players are in the same boat mostly or there isn’t a hard cap system where Everyone makes the same. Bottom line is toronto is a hockey town. The us cities aren’t. It is like the raptors for us. No one cares about the bruins when the Sox or pats are playing. We aren’t competing for football players. We are competing for hockey players.

The point is it has clearly affected performance and players wanting to play here. Players say it. Doughty said it. Pens still make a joke about the media here. How many players have “no Canada” trade clauses? How much is up for debate. But bottom line is. ANY disadvantage in terms of how much players want to play here based on stupid fans and media is unacceptable.

Imagine at your own job. I have no idea what it is, but say like a teacher. You can go to a school where after every class 30 people are asking you about dumb rumours or people putting death threats on your Facebook. You have an option to work at another school for the same money without the hassle. Which would you choose? If you had to deal with jerk customers every day, that wouldn’t affect performance? Even a little? Because social and organizational psychology disagree. Like a lot.

People who get so upset and argue with anonymous people on the internet saying that national news stories on your facial expressions or lying about hot dogs wouldn’t affect them is hilarious to me. Especially when Simmons himself felt he needed to address it

 

[Daisy Jane]

You keep missing the basic point. It doesn’t matter what happens in football or baseball etc. The players are in the same boat mostly or there isn’t a hard cap system where Everyone makes the same. Bottom line is toronto is a hockey town. The us cities aren’t. It is like the raptors for us. No one cares about the bruins when the Sox or pats are playing. We aren’t competing for football players. We are competing for hockey players.

The point is it has clearly affected performance and players wanting to play here. Players say it. Doughty said it. Pens still make a joke about the media here. How many players have “no Canada” trade clauses? How much is up for debate. But bottom line is. ANY disadvantage in terms of how much players want to play here based on stupid fans and media is unacceptable.

Imagine at your own job. I have no idea what it is, but say like a teacher. You can go to a school where after every class 30 people are asking you about dumb rumours or people putting death threats on your Facebook. You have an option to work at another school for the same money without the hassle. Which would you choose? If you had to deal with jerk customers every day, that wouldn’t affect performance? Even a little? Because social and organizational psychology disagree. Like a lot.

People who get so upset and argue with anonymous people on the internet saying that national news stories on your facial expressions or lying about hot dogs wouldn’t affect them is hilarious to me. Especially when Simmons himself felt he needed to address it

like i said.
if you want to believe that this management team makes decisions based on what the fans and the media say then i don't think there is anything else to discuss. and if you honestly believe that this doesn't go on anywhere else, then again, I don't think there is anything to discuss.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Simmons drove Kessel out of Toronto.

 

[Fogelhund]

It really is too bad, that we can't drive Simmons out of town.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Wasn't that Feschuk that called Reimer's Mom? There's another ******* that can go away.

Yeah he's a db too

 

[Legion34]

like i said.
if you want to believe that this management team makes decisions based on what the fans and the media say then i don't think there is anything else to discuss. and if you honestly believe that this doesn't go on anywhere else, then again, I don't think there is anything to discuss.

No I honestly believe that the negative relationship and idiocy of the media is fan driven. And it is a negative factor in how much players want to play here.

I don’t think that Shanahan will trade gardiner for a 7th because of instagram. But I do believe that it might 1.) affect day to day performance. 2.) how much a player would want to re sign.

Again. Doughty himself said it. Kessel said it. There are many players who have said no to Toronto and cited media and fan attention as a factor. The whole point is that you want to maximize your positives and minimize the negatives.

You believe because shanahan says it’s a dumb excuse, it is..... but when actual players say they wouldn’t sign here because of the media, you don’t??????

Limiting the pool of players who want to play here is a problem. The GM may not be influenced by it. But the players clearly are.
Even if it is a 5 percent reduction. At all in any way, it is unacceptable

If you think there aren’t degrees in thought processes then good lord. Like I mean do you think this compares to Tampa, or Sanjose? A player even said this year I forget who, but things weren’t going well for him in Anaheim (was it perry) and it is so much easier going to the rink not getting hounded every day. It is worse here. And people will choose to take better over worse.....

 

[Daisy Jane]

No I honestly believe that the negative relationship and idiocy of the media is fan driven. And it is a negative factor in how much players want to play here.

I don’t think that Shanahan will trade gardiner for a 7th because of instagram. But I do believe that it might 1.) affect day to day performance. 2.) how much a player would want to re sign.

Again. Doughty himself said it. Kessel said it. There are many players who have said no to Toronto and cited media and fan attention as a factor. The whole point is that you want to maximize your positives and minimize the negatives.

You believe because shanahan says it’s a dumb excuse, it is..... but when actual players say they wouldn’t sign here because of the media, you don’t??????

Limiting the pool of players who want to play here is a problem. The GM may not be influenced by it. But the players clearly are.
Even if it is a 5 percent reduction. At all in any way, it is unacceptable.

I never said, not once, that players didn't say they would not sign here because of the media.
what i said was - people here act like this is the only place this happens. which, answer. no it doesn't.

i also said more than once, if that's what they use as a reason, then 9x10 they weren't going to come here anyway, and they use that as the easiest (and acceptable way) to say to the media.

if people truly wanted to play here, they would. end of story.

 

[Legion34]

I never said, not once, that players didn't say they would not sign here because of the media.
what i said was - people here act like this is the only place this happens. which, answer. no it doesn't.

i also said more than once, if that's what they use as a reason, then 9x10 they weren't going to come here anyway, and they use that as the easiest (and acceptable way) to say to the media.

if people truly wanted to play here, they would. end of story.

You honestly believe that???? players who don’t want to play for the leafs will tell the media it is there fault, instead of the real reason which you don’t know, but it can’t be what they are actually saying?????

Well if players want to play for Toronto they will no matter what? Jvr wants to play for Toronto. Let’s offer him theminimum.... if he wants to play here he will. End of story. Players factor in all kinds of things. Tavares himself said off ice lifestyle will be a key factor in his decision.

To be the best team we can we have to provide the best market possible. The biggest factor that has been cited has been the media that I have seen. Even if it blocks only 1-10.... that one is Doughty. So that’s kinda a big deal.

What is the benefit of whining and making threats and feeding the media biases. What is the point. Even if it stops 1 player. Is it worth it?

 

[nsleaf]

No I honestly believe that the negative relationship and idiocy of the media is fan driven. And it is a negative factor in how much players want to play here.

I don’t think that Shanahan will trade gardiner for a 7th because of instagram. But I do believe that it might 1.) affect day to day performance. 2.) how much a player would want to re sign.

Again. Doughty himself said it. Kessel said it. There are many players who have said no to Toronto and cited media and fan attention as a factor. The whole point is that you want to maximize your positives and minimize the negatives.

You believe because shanahan says it’s a dumb excuse, it is..... but when actual players say they wouldn’t sign here because of the media, you don’t??????

Limiting the pool of players who want to play here is a problem. The GM may not be influenced by it. But the players clearly are.
Even if it is a 5 percent reduction. At all in any way, it is unacceptable

If you think there aren’t degrees in thought processes then good lord. Like I mean do you think this compares to Tampa, or Sanjose? A player even said this year I forget who, but things weren’t going well for him in Anaheim (was it perry) and it is so much easier going to the rink not getting hounded every day. It is worse here. And people will choose to take better over worse.....

The media is intense, no doubt but fan driven? How so? If it's the fan's fault, how do you suppose to "fix" it?
Players likely take into account many, many factors before deciding where to play(money, family, climate, chance of winning, etc), if they are lucky enough to have a choice. Some players actually like extra attention and consider that to be "better" than "worse".

 

[MattySnipes]

Players can't have it both ways. The media are your best friends when you're winning in Toronto, and they'll criticise you when it's not going well. It's pretty much the same everywhere else, just like Daisy mentions. Difference in Toronto is the volume of media personnel we have as opposed to the other teams who have like 3 or 4 mics in a scrum.

When we had our home winning streak this year the media was loving it, players were loving it, they were cracking jokes, etc, etc. So if someone feels that our media is the lone option out there that just kills/drives players out of town, then we don't need you here, frankly. We'll develop our own players like we have been the last 3-4 years, and they are developing under the same media scrutiny too. The media is a big part of the team especially with the number of fans we have world-wide. If any player on any other team has an issue or is scared to play because they don't want to face the wrath of the "media" (sounds soo stupid) than they are not welcome here. All players are trained on how to deal with the media. If they got you tongue-tied, reply back with "no comment". It's simple really. Work smart, not hard.

In regards to our media, i don't pay them any mind or give them any clicks. Since my subscription to the Athletic I have real insight to read and learn from than this nonsense these garbage writers spew.