Confirmed with Link: Stempniak to BOS for 2017 2nd and 2016 4th round picks

[Smitty426]

A first was definitely out of the question and comparing him to Ladd seems silly to me. I understand he was having a great season but for a journeyman like Stempniak has been there really isn't that high of a price tag on those types of players.

Shero did fine with this trade, stop nitpicking it to all hell.

He's playing with Marchand and Bergeron
Let's just please admit that the talk was he won't walk onto a teams best group of players

Sure we got two picks for a pto player, hood for us

If he ends up with more points than Ladd of course a case can be made. How do you argue that a player with a hot streak has less value at this time of yr Its the ONLY thing that counts

Nitpicking, each point made pre trade has been squashed

 

[Zippy316]

He's playing with Marchand and Bergeron
Let's just please admit that the talk was he won't walk onto a teams best group of players

Sure we got two picks for a pto player, hood for us

If he ends up with more points than Ladd of course a case can be made. How do you argue that a player with a hot streak has less value at this time of yr Its the ONLY thing that counts

Nitpicking, each point made pre trade has been squashed

Only way we would've gotten a first for Stempniak is if he was traded to a Cup contending team who would likely have a very late first -- Anaheim, Washington, Chicago. However, any of those teams have their RW spots filled with good players. Look at any of the top teams and none of them needed a Stempniak.

It's like saying do you invest $1,000 in something that is very likely to make you money or a riskier venture that might make you a lot more money but might lose you a lot of money. Most people and most teams will always choose the former. Ladd is a lot safer bet than Stempniak, he's much younger and he's a much more impactful player at this stage of his career.

 

[NJDevs26]

What was all that talk here on the form that he would not walk onto a team and not work in the lineup?

I don't know cause I don't recall seeing any of those posts.

The only negative point I think anyone ever made about Stemp was that he wouldn't neccesarily keep it up next year since it was a career year and he was slowing down this year (although clearly that had a lot to do with Camm's injury). But I don't remember anyone saying he wouldn't have success in Boston by rote.

I'm not even sure what you would have done, kept him to re-sign him? That's debatable but you lose the gamble if he doesn't re-sign. For all we know he plays out the year and goes to Boston anyway. And as for Chicago, they probably wanted Ladd cause they had him before among other reasons. I doubt they give up a first for Stemp and really their first is a glorified 2 anyway.

 

[Smitty426]

Only way we would've gotten a first for Stempniak is if he was traded to a Cup contending team who would likely have a very late first -- Anaheim, Washington, Chicago. However, any of those teams have their RW spots filled with good players. Look at any of the top teams and none of them needed a Stempniak.

It's like saying do you invest $1,000 in something that is very likely to make you money or a riskier venture that might make you a lot more money but might lose you a lot of money. Most people and most teams will always choose the former. Ladd is a lot safer bet than Stempniak, he's much younger and he's a much more impactful player at this stage of his career.

Don't disagree
If your picking him up to be your guy now AND in the future you are definitely correct
That is not the case
He's numbers are an outlier this year. You ride the hot hand when that happens
It's not riskier for a short term gain which is all that this is

Also I do agree that Wash etc were better options and that first is a high one and more like a very high 2nd

In the end we have the picks we have but that does not change that he moved on to a new team, continues his scoring, did not disrupt the team and is playing with their top players

All things that were incorrectly noted here

 

[NJDevs26]

It's just funny that people KILLED Lou for not trading Clarkson when we were tied for a playoff spot and are now second-guessing Shero for trading Stemp six points out. The only plus to keeping him was a better chance of re-signing him but that's all it was, a better chance of re-signing him without getting the pick return.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

trading Stempniak was the right move

if he was 26, I would've hated it. But he is 33 and probably only has another good year or two

 

[Emperoreddy]

The only silly talk was actually expecting him to trade him and have him come right back.

 

[Smitty426]

I'm not sure the argument is the trading of Stemp
It's the discussion of what he was worth pre TDL on this year's numbers vs that value coming back

I was not against trading him, not getting what I think was enough value, yes thats still my issue

I'm happy he's still succeeding and wish him well. it brought us to the realization that we were really not a playoff team, so probably for the best

We just disagree on assets and apparently will never get there. Let's move on

 

[Sgt Brylin]

The only silly talk was actually expecting him to trade him and have him come right back.

I rightly don't get the obsession with re-signing Stemp this offseason; literally every armchair GM post with a lineup more or less assumes we'll re-sign Stemp and slot him into the 3RW spot.

Are we really sure, regardless of the season he had here and what he's doing with BOS, that he's the guy we want as our 3RW? The odds of him at age 34 falling off a cliff like Zubie, Tootoo, Poni is far higher than him repeating this season, especially if he's not playing top line minutes.

Let it go.

 

[Bleedred]

I rightly don't get the obsession with re-signing Stemp this offseason; literally every armchair GM post with a lineup more or less assumes we'll re-sign Stemp and slot him into the 3RW spot.

Are we really sure, regardless of the season he had here and what he's doing with BOS, that he's the guy we want as our 3RW? The odds of him at age 34 falling off a cliff like Zubie, Tootoo, Poni is far higher than him repeating this season, especially if he's not playing top line minutes.

Let it go.

I'm now convinced after this season that Tootoo didn't really fall off a cliff. He wasn't very good last season either. Zajac made him look like a competent defensive player and Cammalleri made him look like he could score some goals here and there. It was a disastrous Adam Oates lack of brain cells maneuver to set this line up, and it actually was something that happened to work for a little while.

The One Trick Poni (OTP) was finished at the same age Stempniak is though, I'll agree with that. His offensive production these last two seasons in the KHL has been a joke. It's like 4th line production. This might be his last season ever in professional hockey. And Zubrus was already even older than his age, due to playing exclusively in the NHL (outside of the lockout season and lockout shortened one) since a few months after his 18th birthday.

But I would have only wanted Stempniak back as a 3rd liner, as I think he actually is a 3rd liner and not a top 6 forward. He did a wonderful job at masquerading as a top 6 player this season, and is continuing to do so in Boston. But I only wanted him back as a 3rd liner anyway.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

We'll find a new Stempniak next off-season! David Perron step right in up (as long as he doesn't have a good playoff)!

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Stempniak with OT winner and assist tonight
6 or 7 pts in 3 games

What was all that talk here on the form that he would not walk onto a team and not work in the lineup?

Sure he will cool off but wow were you guys wrong
Sweeny did good here!

Ladd has 5 pts on 5 games, Stemp had double the output. A first probably was not out of the question if he keeps up at half this pace!
HF boards might have been wrong this time huh?

Who said he wouldn't work in Boston? Not a single post in this thread says that.

He's playing with Marchand and Bergeron
Let's just please admit that the talk was he won't walk onto a teams best group of players

Sure we got two picks for a pto player, hood for us

If he ends up with more points than Ladd of course a case can be made. How do you argue that a player with a hot streak has less value at this time of yr Its the ONLY thing that counts

Nitpicking, each point made pre trade has been squashed

Stop making things up. And Stemp only had 2 points in his last 10 games prior to the trade deadline. That is not a hot streak.

Don't disagree
If your picking him up to be your guy now AND in the future you are definitely correct
That is not the case
He's numbers are an outlier this year. You ride the hot hand when that happens
It's not riskier for a short term gain which is all that this is

Also I do agree that Wash etc were better options and that first is a high one and more like a very high 2nd

In the end we have the picks we have but that does not change that he moved on to a new team, continues his scoring, did not disrupt the team and is playing with their top players

All things that were incorrectly noted here

Where.

 

[Smitty426]

Who said he wouldn't work in Boston? Not a single post in this thread says that.

I never said that at all. I said the poster mentioned that he would not walk onto another team and jump in high in the lineup without disrupting the team. My response is he has and it has been nothing but good. Prove me wrong!

Stop making things up. And Stemp only had 2 points in his last 10 games prior to the trade deadline. That is not a hot streak.

See above and what am I making up, that's what someone posted.
Hot streak I was referring to was his ENTIRE season which would be hard to argue with. A season that has continue with Bos. again, hard to argue with, 6 pts in 3 games, but that's not hot I guess

Where.

"He's only doing so well because he's getting more time" (yes 2 more min per game, not 10-15)

 

[Smitty426]

I went back and found some of the posts, still looking for the one that said would not jump in and disrupt a team, but I will, until then this is what my point was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty426 
This coming Monday Lee's salary will be about $180,000 for the rest of the year. What do you have to offer that would make us retain on a guy putting up those #s on the worst offensive team in the league?
He's putting those numbers up because he is getting good minutes. He's not going to get those on any contender.


What's more likely?
1. Lee Stempniak is out and having his best season since 2006-2007 at the age of 33.
2. His production is inflated from a sky high on ice shooting percentage, heavy o-zone starts and top minutes, and will end up disappointing the team who acquires him when all those factors disappear.
I expect him to get a similar return to Hudler, if he's traded at all.

He's shooting .3% better than he did last year and only 2.6% higher than his career average. It's not really sky-high.
War-on-ice has him at roughly even numbers of starts in all 3 zones..
He's playing about 18 minutes a game.. about 2 minutes more than his career average. More minutes, yes.. but not that inflated.
I think it's pretty likely you are exaggerating a lot, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty426 
Ok I guess I get it
But your buying for today!
He's having a banner season, that is what a GM is paying for
They aren't worrying on how lee will do next year IF he resigns with us. They want him to continue what he has done in Jersey

My point is they're not gonna pay for his production from this year, they're gonna pay for what he's done for most of his career. He's playing on the Devils 1st line. He most likely won't be doing that on a contending team. Any team acquiring him that plans on using him in the middle 6 will be paying for the 0.53 PPG Stempniak and not the 0.65 PPG Stempniak.

What contending team is gonna put him on their first line and play him 18 minutes a night? Any contender he gets traded to will probably only play him 15 minutes a night.
Playing on first line with Marchand and Bergeron
Played 17:52 VS Fla last night

Stempniak's numbers are highly inflated from playing top minutes. He's not going to go to a cup contender and play the same minutes. Therefore, he's not worth, to other teams, what he's worth to the Devils.

Career high numbers for a 33 year old since 06-07. He's playing a role he shouldn't play, therefore, his numbers are inflated. Back to where he should be on a legit cup contender, with his usual production..he's good for about 8-10 points for the rest of the year. He's not as valuable to other teams because he won't produce how he has for the Devils.

As I said he will cool off but he's already got 6 of those 8 to 10 mentioned above.

 

[NJDevs26]

For future reference hitting multi quote when posting a number of posts is better (and less time consuming) than just cutting and pasting everything. I can't tell from any of that if it's all from one post, five posts or ten posts, how many different posters made those comments or whether they were made here or on the main board.

 

[Zippy316]

You're basically running your entire argument into the ground.

Only reason Boston even paid a second for Stempniak is because they could use a top six RW since Connolly wasn't doing too well in the Marchand-Bergeron spot. Plus, they've always cycled through guys like Stempniak in that spot for the most part -- Recchi and Jagr being two I can remember.

Part of trading isn't so much the value of the player but the value of him to another team. Stempniak would have to fit in the top six of whatever team he traded to.

 

[NJDevs26]

And part of the argument is he wasn't going to have a big role on a Cup contender. At the risk of getting foot in the mouth disease Boston is not a Cup contender. Not on the Caps/Lightning/Rangers level. They just want to make the playoffs and feel they can resign him, that's why they did the deal.

 

[Zippy316]

And part of the argument is he wasn't going to have a big role on a Cup contender. At the risk of getting foot in the mouth disease Boston is not a Cup contender. Not on the Caps/Lightning/Rangers level

To go further, those teams would be the only teams that would offer up a late first for him as well. That was the argument in a nutshell.

He didn't have a spot for any team that would get us a first. Personally, I prefer the fact that the Boston second is in 2017 because I'm not sure they are going to be as good next year.

 

[217 Forever]

And part of the argument is he wasn't going to have a big role on a Cup contender. At the risk of getting foot in the mouth disease Boston is not a Cup contender. Not on the Caps/Lightning/Rangers level. They just want to make the playoffs and feel they can resign him, that's why they did the deal.

I beg to differ. Firstly they are making the playoffs. That really isn't in doubt. Secondly, Boston is a mature team not that far removed from being an annually serious Cup contender, and thirdly, teams don't look at their playoff hopes like fans do for the most part. If management likes where their team is at (i.e. healthy and playing well) then the attitude is simply why not us? They don't look at a healthy point deficit relative to the teams ahead of them as a gauge of what will happen in the playoffs. Only perhaps young teams who are perceived to have overachieved might not be thinking about a championship so much. Otherwise teams think that getting in the dance is all that matters and that everyone has an equal shot. If you go into the playoffs thinking you have no shot -- then you don't.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Stempniak with OT winner and assist tonight
6 or 7 pts in 3 games

What was all that talk here on the form that he would not walk onto a team and not work in the lineup?

Sure he will cool off but wow were you guys wrong
Sweeny did good here!

Ladd has 5 pts on 5 games, Stemp had double the output. A first probably was not out of the question if he keeps up at half this pace!
HF boards might have been wrong this time huh?

Bruins fan here. The points are great but it's more about how seamless he's fit in on that line. Bergeron and Marchand, despite being great players, aren't necessarily the easiest to play with depending on what kind of player you are as they ultimately function as a duo with the RW being more of a third wheel. They work best with a player that can just plug the holes and keep possession alive, someone with a high hockey IQ that knows where to go and what to do at all times. Stempniak definitely fits that mold. He reminds me of Recchi when he was playing with those two.

As for compensation, I still think NJ did great. You have to realize that 1st round picks simply weren't on the table this year. You're also dealing with a mid-30s winger that has a career high of 52 points. I think both teams got exactly what they were looking for here.

It'll be interesting to see what Stempniak does in the offseason. He had a lot of success in NJ, but also looks like a good fit in Boston, and both teams expressed interest in him going into this season. Couple different options for him to settle in with a team for (hopefully) the forseeable future, which is awesome for him considering how much he's bounced around in his career, and because he had to sign a PTO this season.

 

[Smitty426]

Bruins fan here. The points are great but it's more about how seamless he's fit in on that line. Bergeron and Marchand, despite being great players, aren't necessarily the easiest to play with depending on what kind of player you are as they ultimately function as a duo with the RW being more of a third wheel. They work best with a player that can just plug the holes and keep possession alive, someone with a high hockey IQ that knows where to go and what to do at all times. Stempniak definitely fits that mold. He reminds me of Recchi when he was playing with those two.

As for compensation, I still think NJ did great. You have to realize that 1st round picks simply weren't on the table this year. You're also dealing with a mid-30s winger that has a career high of 52 points. I think both teams got exactly what they were looking for here.

It'll be interesting to see what Stempniak does in the offseason. He had a lot of success in NJ, but also looks like a good fit in Boston, and both teams expressed interest in him going into this season. Couple different options for him to settle in with a team for (hopefully) the forseeable future, which is awesome for him considering how much he's bounced around in his career, and because he had to sign a PTO this season.

Glad he is working out for you. We were not getting a first from you guys, but I still believe he was/is worth a late first. And yes it would have been a VERY low 1st based on a team like Wash maybe doing it. My point was many said he would mess with chemistry in top of lineup. Yeah I will take that kind of mess every damn day! Good luck

 

[NJDevs26]

As for compensation, I still think NJ did great. You have to realize that 1st round picks simply weren't on the table this year. You're also dealing with a mid-30s winger that has a career high of 52 points. I think both teams got exactly what they were looking for here.

It'll be interesting to see what Stempniak does in the offseason. He had a lot of success in NJ, but also looks like a good fit in Boston, and both teams expressed interest in him going into this season. Couple different options for him to settle in with a team for (hopefully) the forseeable future, which is awesome for him considering how much he's bounced around in his career, and because he had to sign a PTO this season.

The only first rounder I think changed hands this deadline was the Hawks Ladd trade. And Ladd is a proven commodity for them, he won a Cup there. They weren't giving us that for Stemp.

 

[NJDevs26]

I beg to differ. Firstly they are making the playoffs. That really isn't in doubt. Secondly, Boston is a mature team not that far removed from being an annually serious Cup contender, and thirdly, teams don't look at their playoff hopes like fans do for the most part. If management likes where their team is at (i.e. healthy and playing well) then the attitude is simply why not us? They don't look at a healthy point deficit relative to the teams ahead of them as a gauge of what will happen in the playoffs. Only perhaps young teams who are perceived to have overachieved might not be thinking about a championship so much. Otherwise teams think that getting in the dance is all that matters and that everyone has an equal shot. If you go into the playoffs thinking you have no shot -- then you don't.

While in general you're correct if Boston was really all in at the deadline its a big change from a few months ago when they shed guys left and right. And I'd think they would have been in on one of the big d-men if they were all in on winning this year instead of JMLiles

And my point was more that you can't argue Stemp has a role on a Cup contender cause nobody other than maybe themselves see the Bruins as contenders.

 

[217 Forever]

While in general you're correct if Boston was really all in at the deadline its a big change from a few months ago when they shed guys left and right. And I'd think they would have been in on one of the big d-men if they were all in on winning this year instead of JMLiles

And my point was more that you can't argue Stemp has a role on a Cup contender cause nobody other than maybe themselves see the Bruins as contenders.

Boston has major cap issues. Keeping Eriksson meant that they are serious (and it also meant they had almost no ability to do anything else).

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I went back and found some of the posts, still looking for the one that said would not jump in and disrupt a team, but I will, until then this is what my point was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty426 
This coming Monday Lee's salary will be about $180,000 for the rest of the year. What do you have to offer that would make us retain on a guy putting up those #s on the worst offensive team in the league?
He's putting those numbers up because he is getting good minutes. He's not going to get those on any contender.


What's more likely?
1. Lee Stempniak is out and having his best season since 2006-2007 at the age of 33.
2. His production is inflated from a sky high on ice shooting percentage, heavy o-zone starts and top minutes, and will end up disappointing the team who acquires him when all those factors disappear.
I expect him to get a similar return to Hudler, if he's traded at all.

He's shooting .3% better than he did last year and only 2.6% higher than his career average. It's not really sky-high.
War-on-ice has him at roughly even numbers of starts in all 3 zones..
He's playing about 18 minutes a game.. about 2 minutes more than his career average. More minutes, yes.. but not that inflated.
I think it's pretty likely you are exaggerating a lot, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty426 
Ok I guess I get it
But your buying for today!
He's having a banner season, that is what a GM is paying for
They aren't worrying on how lee will do next year IF he resigns with us. They want him to continue what he has done in Jersey

My point is they're not gonna pay for his production from this year, they're gonna pay for what he's done for most of his career. He's playing on the Devils 1st line. He most likely won't be doing that on a contending team. Any team acquiring him that plans on using him in the middle 6 will be paying for the 0.53 PPG Stempniak and not the 0.65 PPG Stempniak.

What contending team is gonna put him on their first line and play him 18 minutes a night? Any contender he gets traded to will probably only play him 15 minutes a night.
Playing on first line with Marchand and Bergeron
Played 17:52 VS Fla last night

Stempniak's numbers are highly inflated from playing top minutes. He's not going to go to a cup contender and play the same minutes. Therefore, he's not worth, to other teams, what he's worth to the Devils.

Career high numbers for a 33 year old since 06-07. He's playing a role he shouldn't play, therefore, his numbers are inflated. Back to where he should be on a legit cup contender, with his usual production..he's good for about 8-10 points for the rest of the year. He's not as valuable to other teams because he won't produce how he has for the Devils.

As I said he will cool off but he's already got 6 of those 8 to 10 mentioned above.

Ah - don't quote them so we don't see those aren't from this thread.

You came in here jumping down people's throats for things not said here.

Using one game's TOI to speak to one post - yes that's showing us we were all wrong.

Quote the people you want to take issue with - don't come in here posting things about how we were wrong when in majority "WE" were in fact right. Quote the people you want to take to task but stop using blanket statements as if everyone here took you to task or something - and a word to the wise, don't use 1 game samples to disprove generalizations. That rarely holds up.

And using sweeping attacks and cross posting from other threads for purpose of attacking is against the rules. Quote people and debate their posts or don't bother when they are the exceptions to the consensus of the boards.