State of the Ducks

[AngelDuck]

Our veteran players have consistently shown an inability to fully commit to any system.

Funny how the same issues keep cropping up for five years. What's the common denominator?

Somewhat agree but the lack of execution was They were never this bad under BB.

And I was a big advocate of moving on from bb. Also it's not just the veterans unless you consider Montour one too

 

[AngelDuck]

Not a Kings fan, but as I recall, the pre-Sutter 2012 Kings had zero structure and were an embarassment... not unlike the pre-"Carlyle Replacement" Ducks of 2018.... which was my point.

John

The Kings under Terry Murray played with TOO MUCH structure. It stifled there ability to score. They were a fantastic defensive team under him though

 

[Deuce22]

Fans who do not think analytics are valid can point to the Ducks getting consistently outshot and spending more time in their own zone (Corsi, Fenwick) while still winning more than their share of games. This where the Gibson mirage has enable RC to keep fooling people. The model of playing not to lose by surrounding the net, not pressuring the points, chipping the puck off the boards to clear the zone, and dumping pucks in (even on PP) to the offensive zone is not sustainable long term.

Last night's OT was RC in a nutshell. He has been consistent in this thinking, last year's 3 on 3 debacles proving my point. He begins the OT with his best defensive forwards, not trying to score and win the game, but trying to keep the Sharks at bay. The Ducks spend the OT just trying to stay between their man and the goal, except for Getzlaf trying to spring Lindholm with a pass that was deflected. He's like an NFL coach who begins the OT running it into the line 3 times and then punting.

Giving up 35 shots a game when your goalie is elite might work, but when that become 45-50 shots the result is going to be what we are seeing. My fear is that RC is going to screw up Gibson, either mentally or by getting him injured.

Injuries can be blamed, but even with a healthy roster this passive, predictable model isn't going to accomplish anything. Change is inevitable, the sooner it happens the better for the future of the Ducks.

 

[teemussalami1]

Blaming the system for all of our problems is classic HF. This stuff has been happening for years. Players can also be held accountable, fyi.

 

[teemussalami1]

Fans who do not think analytics are valid can point to the Ducks getting consistently outshot and spending more time in their own zone (Corsi, Fenwick) while still winning more than their share of games. This where the Gibson mirage has enable RC to keep fooling people. The model of playing not to lose by surrounding the net, not pressuring the points, chipping the puck off the boards to clear the zone, and dumping pucks in (even on PP) to the offensive zone is not sustainable long term.

Last night's OT was RC in a nutshell. He has been consistent in this thinking, last year's 3 on 3 debacles proving my point. He begins the OT with his best defensive forwards, not trying to score and win the game, but trying to keep the Sharks at bay. The Ducks spend the OT just trying to stay between their man and the goal, except for Getzlaf trying to spring Lindholm with a pass that was deflected. He's like an NFL coach who begins the OT running it into the line 3 times and then punting.

Giving up 35 shots a game when your goalie is elite might work, but when that become 45-50 shots the result is going to be what we are seeing. My fear is that RC is going to screw up Gibson, either mentally or by getting him injured.

Injuries can be blamed, but even with a healthy roster this passive, predictable model isn't going to accomplish anything. Change is inevitable, the sooner it happens the better for the future of the Ducks.

Yeah I don't think the insane shot margins are getting past Bob. If it stays at this rate he'll be gone sooner rather than later.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Just for fun I decided to see who had the worst shots against per game since 05-06.

If you guessed this year’s Anaheim Ducks at 39.1, you’d be correct.

To add to the fun, I looked at the worst shots/game in that same span.

The 54 point ‘14-15 Buffalo Sabres at 24.2 was worst. This year’s Ducks are only tied for 3rd worst at 24.5.

 

[AngelDuck]

Just for fun I decided to see who had the worst shots against per game since 05-06.

If you guessed this year’s Anaheim Ducks at 39.1, you’d be correct.

To add to the fun, I looked at the worst shots/game in that same span.

The 54 point ‘14-15 Buffalo Sabres at 24.2 was worst. This year’s Ducks are only tied for 3rd worst at 24.5.

And go look at that Sabres roster. One of the most pathetic in NHL history. I think you can make the argument it’s the worst ever. That was the year before they got Eichel. Really is annoying the Oilers got the #1 pick that year. Tyler Ennius and Matt Moulson were their best players

 

[HanSolo]

Just for fun I decided to see who had the worst shots against per game since 05-06.

If you guessed this year’s Anaheim Ducks at 39.1, you’d be correct.

To add to the fun, I looked at the worst shots/game in that same span.

The 54 point ‘14-15 Buffalo Sabres at 24.2 was worst. This year’s Ducks are only tied for 3rd worst at 24.5.

I looked this up recently as well but went even further back. Even more fun is that the worst SA/g stat since the Ducks joined the league was actually the very year they joined the league: 1993 LA Kings with 36.3. The 18-19 Ducks at present are almost a full 3 shots per game worse. How did Anaheim do as an expansion team in '93? 31.1. A full 8 shots per game fewer.

 

[HanSolo]

And go look at that Sabres roster. One of the most pathetic in NHL history. I think you can make the argument it’s the worst ever. That was the year before they got Eichel. Really is annoying the Oilers got the #1 pick that year. Tyler Ennius and Matt Moulson were their best players

Not even close really.

74-75 Caps: 8-67-5 (only won one game on the road. Their goals for was 181 while the league average was 274. Goals allowed was 446 (league avg 274) so their goal differential was -265)
80-81 Jets: 9-57-14
92-93 Sharks 11-71-2
92-93 Sens: 10-70-4
75-76 Kansas City Scouts (currently the NJ Devils): 12-56-12
72-73 NYI: 12-60-2
89-90 Nordiques: 12-61-7
93-94 Sens 14-61-9

By comparison, 23-51-8 really doesn't seem that bad. Certainly the worst team of the cap era and I'd agree that they should've won the McDavid sweeps. Dahlin really isn't great compensation for that.

 

[mightyquack]

Our veteran players have consistently shown an inability to fully commit to any system.

Funny how the same issues keep cropping up for five years. What's the common denominator?

While I agree to a degree in the sense the players deserve some of the blame, I'd also argue that the players have actually shown the ability to fully commit to a system - BB pretty much changed the whole system from 14-15 to the 15-16 season and the players bought into it and Anaheim played pretty good hockey overall, just did their usual disappearance late in a playoff series under BB no matter which system they were playing.

Obviously players have to shoulder some of the blame, and some of our paid players our the biggest underperformers right now - but I'd say the players would buy into a system change if it was a coach they had some faith in, they've shown the ability to do it before after all.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Just for fun I decided to see who had the worst shots against per game since 05-06.

If you guessed this year’s Anaheim Ducks at 39.1, you’d be correct.

To add to the fun, I looked at the worst shots/game in that same span.

The 54 point ‘14-15 Buffalo Sabres at 24.2 was worst. This year’s Ducks are only tied for 3rd worst at 24.5.

Boy, that WAS fun.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

While I agree to a degree in the sense the players deserve some of the blame, I'd also argue that the players have actually shown the ability to fully commit to a system - BB pretty much changed the whole system from 14-15 to the 15-16 season and the players bought into it and Anaheim played pretty good hockey overall, just did their usual disappearance late in a playoff series under BB no matter which system they were playing.

Obviously players have to shoulder some of the blame, and some of our paid players our the biggest underperformers right now - but I'd say the players would buy into a system change if it was a coach they had some faith in, they've shown the ability to do it before after all.

They definitely did not fully commit to BB's system because they were very prone to abandoning it under pressure, which was exacerbated by inability to make in game assignment adjustments.

That said, they've committed to Randy's system only to a negligible degree. We've seen it here and there, rarely for more than a few shifts. They'll start okay but then everything explodes. Contrary to the honestly crazy narrative on here, what we've seen is not Randy's system. It's not a system at all. It's players in survival mode basically each relying on hisown instincts and reflexes to get through a shift.

That's why Randy's gotta go. No one's listening to him and they really haven't for much of his return. But getting rid of him isn't an ultimate solution because this group of veterans has proven to be pretty obstinate in terms of listening to a coach. A major shakeup is needed along with a new voice behind the bench.

 

[pbgoalie]

They definitely did not fully commit to BB's system because they were very prone to abandoning it under pressure, which was exacerbated by inability to make in game assignment adjustments.

That said, they've committed to Randy's system only to a negligible degree. We've seen it here and there, rarely for more than a few shifts. They'll start okay but then everything explodes. Contrary to the honestly crazy narrative on here, what we've seen is not Randy's system. It's not a system at all. It's players in survival mode basically each relying on hisown instincts and reflexes to get through a shift.

That's why Randy's gotta go. No one's listening to him and they really haven't for much of his return. But getting rid of him isn't an ultimate solution because this group of veterans has proven to be pretty obstinate in terms of listening to a coach. A major shakeup is needed along with a new voice behind the bench.

In an age old battle, if players are not buying in at times or tuning out coaches, I can’t see how anything changes long term, no matter who coaches without making some radical player shake ups. Seems for years, there have been comments about this and especially for accountability (especially veterans) for consistently making stupid mistakes, whether stupid or lazy.

For an oft cited example, As good as Getz is, how many times has he been on the ice in a losing OT? Perry being a black hole? Bieksa’s ice time? Sitting players, trading one of the old boys? There certainly seems a complacency considering what has gone on at times

 

[dracom]

Just to comment on Getz and losing OT, I just don’t think he’s good at 3v3. Not sure how to look it up, but I wonder what his record was like back during 4v4.

 

[quackquackquack]

Does anyone think the situation will improve once we get Kase, Comtois, (potentially) and Eaves back and Silfverberg is 100%? I think we just need to get healthy for christ's sake.

 

[bsu]

Does anyone think the situation will improve once we get Kase, Comtois, (potentially) and Eaves back and Silfverberg is 100%? I think we just need to get healthy for christ's sake.

We will never be 100% healthy.

 

[Deuce22]

They definitely did not fully commit to BB's system because they were very prone to abandoning it under pressure, which was exacerbated by inability to make in game assignment adjustments.

That said, they've committed to Randy's system only to a negligible degree. We've seen it here and there, rarely for more than a few shifts. They'll start okay but then everything explodes. Contrary to the honestly crazy narrative on here, what we've seen is not Randy's system. It's not a system at all. It's players in survival mode basically each relying on hisown instincts and reflexes to get through a shift.

That's why Randy's gotta go. No one's listening to him and they really haven't for much of his return. But getting rid of him isn't an ultimate solution because this group of veterans has proven to be pretty obstinate in terms of listening to a coach. A major shakeup is needed along with a new voice behind the bench.

So you're saying that RC's system is no system at all. I think you nailed it.

Don't know who you mean by "a group of veterans." Getzlaf and Perry obviously. But we can't blame Perry for this year's debacle. Fowler? He's the org's golden boy. Cogs? Mr. Hustle. No one else has really been here that long. Most of this year's team is new (either young or recently acquired). I guess you could be talking about Kesler. But then why is BM giving the "non-listening" vets long term deals?

 

[wraparound]

They definitely did not fully commit to BB's system because they were very prone to abandoning it under pressure, which was exacerbated by inability to make in game assignment adjustments.

That said, they've committed to Randy's system only to a negligible degree. We've seen it here and there, rarely for more than a few shifts. They'll start okay but then everything explodes. Contrary to the honestly crazy narrative on here, what we've seen is not Randy's system. It's not a system at all. It's players in survival mode basically each relying on hisown instincts and reflexes to get through a shift.

That's why Randy's gotta go. No one's listening to him and they really haven't for much of his return. But getting rid of him isn't an ultimate solution because this group of veterans has proven to be pretty obstinate in terms of listening to a coach. A major shakeup is needed along with a new voice behind the bench.

I think trading a core guy (Fowler most likely) in addition to getting a new head coach would be the most attainable shake-up. If I’m Bob I’m selling off guys at the deadline like Silf (not before tabling an ‘unofficial’ offer to return as a FA in July) & Cogs for picks and then moving Cam during the off-season for an impact forward that can come into training camp and learn the new coach’s system with the rest of his teammates. I’d suggest they drop Randy now and install a new HC to at least get the players exposed to how they’re going to play moving forward, but there is the risk of them actually getting back on track and making the playoffs, which, while that would be great, doesn’t serve the team’s best interests at this point in time. They have an opportunity to ride this wave of sh*t that they’ve made for themselves and finish in the top 15 of the draft. I’m not sure if Murray’s pride (or the Samueli’s desire to maintain their playoff appearance streak for additional revenue) would allow for them to fully embrace the tank, but adding a top 5 OA caliber player to their system would be a wise investment in the future of a franchise that is staring down the barrel of a future without Getzlaf, Kesler & Perry.

 

[pbgoalie]

In a way, we seem to already be in that future without Perry and Kesler...

At least as we knew them

 

[70sSanO]

The Kings under Terry Murray played with TOO MUCH structure. It stifled there ability to score. They were a fantastic defensive team under him though

Agree that they had no offensive output, but even their defense wasn't playing well, as far as the last games under Murray. The team had checked out. But you're right.

Carlyle is a structured, puck possession, slow the tempo, cycle and grind it out coach. His teams have traditionally been more defensive minded. I have no clue what is going on now. The team is just not buying into whatever is be preached.

John

 

[tomd]

My favorite refrain was that the Ducks have "one of the top" defenses in the league. Those who questioned that assertion were pilloried. Not so much anymore I guess.

Those of us who came into the season with modestly realistic expectations are neither surprised nor disappointed by the current state of the team. The window is closed but the salaries of Getzlaf, Perry, and Kesler remain. Until that is solved (likely only by the passing of time), the team will remain more or less average.

 

[Exit Dose]

My favorite refrain was that the Ducks have "one of the top" defenses in the league. Those who questioned that assertion were pilloried. Not so much anymore I guess.

No, we still have one of the best defenses in the league. It's kind of hard for them to shine when the forwards can't hold onto the puck.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Team Game Finder | Hockey-Reference.com
http://hkref.com/tiny/iLj40
There are only two teams since 1967 that have allowed over 39 shots against in the first 12 games. 1972-73 Flyers, and 2018-19 Ducks.

Epic.

 

[tomd]

No, we still have one of the best defenses in the league. It's kind of hard for them to shine when the forwards can't hold onto the puck.

ahhh...so that's the new story! I get it now.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Does anyone think the situation will improve once we get Kase, Comtois, (potentially) and Eaves back and Silfverberg is 100%? I think we just need to get healthy for christ's sake.

Should there be improvement..yes, to what degree?

Enough to get us from being g outshot by 20 to being outshot by 5?(which is still bad)

Not sure they'll swing pendulum that far