State of the Ducks

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12ozPapa

Make space for The Papa
Feb 13, 2012
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Bob and Randy - they simply are adorable.

Every year I go to the Black friday game and we usually lose but this year I have even less interest than usual.
 

duckpuck

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The thing is, I don’t want to see any trades made(except, maybe, to address injuries) until we have a new coach. There is no point.

Carlyle needs to go. Get a new coach in, and get a new system implemented. The sooner the better. Give the players a chance to adjust and come to terms with the change. Get a nice look at how everyone is performing under these new circumstances.

Then cut the fat away.

Any other approach is just trying to deflect from the real issue, and should cost Murray his job.

While I agree things will not get appreciably better without a new coach, disagree about trades. The roster still needs an overhaul to play a different style (even if RC can't coach that new style). And the truth is any new coach will have a hard time implementing a new system mid-season with lots of injuries.

We know RC won't be back next year, so its just a question of when to pull the trigger. If there's a coach you really want (like Quenneville) who is interested (I doubt Quenneville is or that the ducks would pay him enough $$), then pull the trigger. What are the other options right now? Eakins (which I would be ok with)? Otherwise, wait.

Bottom line for me is the ducks should tear it down for a retool (not a fire sale). Trade Silf, Cogs, and anything else they can use to acquire a good prospect or first or second round pick. Play the younger guys and tank a bit for a higher pick. Consider trading young assets for other young assets.

Making the playoffs and losing int the first round should not be the goal for the front office. And that is the ceiling for this team.
 

Sojourn

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Nov 1, 2006
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The point is that a new coach helps dictate the new playing style. How do you intend to intend to retool the team while players are underperforming under Carlyle, and without knowing who the new coach is? That’s too many missing variables, and you may end up losing assets you’ll need later. Or, worse, wasting assets unnecessarily.

That’s why a new coach needs to be first. Then you go from there. You figure out what the coach wants to accomplish, start seeing what the players he has can do under him, and make adjustments.

The performance we’re getting out of, at least some of the players, is not what we should expect moving forward. We need to get away from Carlyle, and then see what we’re working with. Trying to figure out what we’re working with, with players underperforming, is a recipe for disaster, both in terms of losing assets we need and potentially moving assets while their value is lower than it should be. Add in a new coach who may be better at coaching the team a different direction further adds to the danger. We know how players are doing under a shit system that has no place in the current NHL, under a coach they’ve given up on. A new system, and a new coach to motivate them, needs to be the start.
 
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Sojourn

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Mind you, I fully expect Murray to try to prolong Carlyle’s time here, and place more blame on the players and make changes to the roster now.

I also fully expect to look back next season, or even later this season, and regret moves made that would have been unnecessary if Murray swallowed his ego and admitted Carlyle needed to go first.
 

Sojourn

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As far as waiting to pull the trigger on a new coach, I completely disagree with that. Go with an interim coach, if you need to. The point is not to get the right coach in immediately, even if that’s ideal. The point is to get away from Carlyle, who is clearly dragging the team down at this point.

There are times where doing nothing is worse than doing absolutely anything. This is one of those times. Picking your spots is only valid when you can afford to wait. Anaheim can’t.
 

Trojans86

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Dec 30, 2015
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While I agree things will not get appreciably better without a new coach, disagree about trades. The roster still needs an overhaul to play a different style (even if RC can't coach that new style). And the truth is any new coach will have a hard time implementing a new system mid-season with lots of injuries.

We know RC won't be back next year, so its just a question of when to pull the trigger. If there's a coach you really want (like Quenneville) who is interested (I doubt Quenneville is or that the ducks would pay him enough $$), then pull the trigger. What are the other options right now? Eakins (which I would be ok with)? Otherwise, wait.

Bottom line for me is the ducks should tear it down for a retool (not a fire sale). Trade Silf, Cogs, and anything else they can use to acquire a good prospect or first or second round pick. Play the younger guys and tank a bit for a higher pick. Consider trading young assets for other young assets.

Making the playoffs and losing int the first round should not be the goal for the front office. And that is the ceiling for this team.
If you are rebuilding your number one goal is finding our next 1c. If you are retooling you maybe feel we can win a cup with Getzlaf leading us. I see our window with Getzlaf shrinking really fast so I would prefer more of a rebuild. The Getzlaf Kesler Perry contracts are going to get worse and worse until they are gone. I don't see us winning anything until those are off the books so might as well rebuild and hope to be well positioned when those come off.
 

Getzmonster

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Jul 24, 2014
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I think Eakins as an interim coach seems ideal, but I also see it as a bit problematic. You're taking a guy that is obviously valued by the organization, and offering him a promotion that comes with a pretty hefty ultimatum. He needs to prove himself on this sinking ship enough to steer the team away from going after other well-known coaches this summer. And if the team went that route, where would that leave him? I have a hard time thinking they'd put him back in his San Diego role, most likely he's gone from the organization or offered Asst. Coach or something along those lines. Doesn't seem ideal for him or the organization.

I'm beginning to think that with so many coaches getting fired, and on the hot seat this season, that Murray has a specific coach in mind that he's caught wind is on the way out of his current job. And he'll grind it out until that guy's available. Eakins may be the fallback that will always be there, so there's no real incentive to rush that move until all other prospective candidates are off the table.
 

Sojourn

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I think Eakins as an interim coach seems ideal, but I also see it as a bit problematic. You're taking a guy that is obviously valued by the organization, and offering him a promotion that comes with a pretty hefty ultimatum. He needs to prove himself on this sinking ship enough to steer the team away from going after other well-known coaches this summer. And if the team went that route, where would that leave him? I have a hard time thinking they'd put him back in his San Diego role, most likely he's gone from the organization or offered Asst. Coach or something along those lines. Doesn't seem ideal for him or the organization.

I'm beginning to think that with so many coaches getting fired, and on the hot seat this season, that Murray has a specific coach in mind that he's caught wind is on the way out of his current job. And he'll grind it out until that guy's available. Eakins may be the fallback that will always be there, so there's no real incentive to rush that move until all other prospective candidates are off the table.

You might be right about that, but it’s a pretty dangerous train of thought. What if the coach doesn’t get fired? Then you were grinding it out and wasting time for nothing.

I do agree with you on Eakins in an interim role. That’s risky, in a different way. I’m just not convinced we shouldn’t do it anyway.
 
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Getzmonster

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You might be right about that, but it’s a pretty dangerous train of thought. What if the coach doesn’t get fired? Then you were grinding it out and wasting time for nothing.

I do agree with you on Eakins in an interim role. That’s risky, in a different way. I’m just not convinced we shouldn’t do it anyway.
Agreed, I'm reaching a bit on the coach-to-be-fired thing, but I'm really struggling to find a justifiable angle for Murray seemingly sitting on his hands.
 

AngelDuck

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Jun 16, 2012
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Anaheim won’t rebuild. We should put that thought out of our head.
Not full rebuild. The only way to fully rebuild is to trade Gibson and force Getzlaf out somehow.

What I can see happening is a 3 year "retool" until Perry/Kesler are gone and we can spend more money. But we will try to be competitive in that time frame still
 

Sojourn

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Not full rebuild. The only way to fully rebuild is to trade Gibson and force Getzlaf out somehow.

What I can see happening is a 3 year "retool" until Perry/Kesler are gone and we can spend more money. But we will try to be competitive in that time frame still

I agree, that seems more possible. It would still suck pretty hard, just because that’s three years of Getzlaf down, and three years we might be wasting on Gibson. Gibson alone might allow us to be competitive, at least within reason, but it would be pretty awful to see him out there trying to carry the team without management giving him the support they need because they’re trying to bide their time a bit.

I’m not saying it wouldn’t be the right move in the long-term(not sure any of us can say that), but it would be a big bag of suck.
 
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Sojourn

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Agreed, I'm reaching a bit on the coach-to-be-fired thing, but I'm really struggling to find a justifiable angle for Murray seemingly sitting on his hands.

No argument from me on that at all. Sure, it might be a bit of a reach, but it seems more logical than doing nothing because you’re assuming the problem is injury related. I think we’re past the point where we can say the blame is all on Carlyle, and he certainly deserves his share of it.

Carlyle might be inept, and in the current NHL I think this is the case, but he’s not upper management. His job is to coach to the best of his ability, and I’m sure he’s trying. If you’re the boss, and your employee just isn’t capable of doing the job, you’re responsible for finding someone who is.
 
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Hockey Duckie

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Jul 25, 2003
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Heh you called Ritchie a top 6 winger.

Heh, you believe we have top talent that keeps Ritchie not a top 6 winger on our club.

I don't get some Duck fans. Are the Ducks are really good team or are we a bad team? I think we're a bad team and lacking talent due to a multitude of reasons. Our record kinda reflects that. We really only have one top-6 forward - Getzlaf. That's it. Everyone else is middling and interchangeable. I'm hoping Kase gets into a groove again so he can be a second top-6 forward for us. LoL
 

bsu

"I have no idea what I am doing" -Pat VerBleak
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The only way Ritchie is a top 6 winger is if getzlaf is his center.... And he made beleskey and maroon and drug addict Penner top 6 wingers
 

Zegs2sendhelp

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Jul 25, 2012
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Heh, you believe we have top talent that keeps Ritchie not a top 6 winger on our club.

I don't get some Duck fans. Are the Ducks are really good team or are we a bad team? I think we're a bad team and lacking talent due to a multitude of reasons. Our record kinda reflects that. We really only have one top-6 forward - Getzlaf. That's it. Everyone else is middling and interchangeable. I'm hoping Kase gets into a groove again so he can be a second top-6 forward for us. LoL
Rakell silf kase aberg... looks like ritchie aint top 6. Comtois was better too, and perry.
 

bsu

"I have no idea what I am doing" -Pat VerBleak
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Beleskey played with Kesler and Silfverberg at his peak effectiveness. Penner was always fairly solid.
He went from on our top line to out of the league in the matter of days
 

Paul4587

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Jan 26, 2006
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He went from on our top line to out of the league in the matter of days

Except for the 2 months he was with Washington...

And you're forgetting that Penner was a 30 goal, 60 point scorer in Edmonton with no offensive support. Talent was never an issue with him.
 

bsu

"I have no idea what I am doing" -Pat VerBleak
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Except for the 2 months he was with Washington...

And you're forgetting that Penner was a 30 goal, 60 point scorer in Edmonton with no offensive support. Talent was never an issue with him.
I am talking about his last season when Getzlaf made him look serviceable which he does with anyone then he was out of the league that is why i said "drug addict" Penner.
 

AngelDuck

Rak 'em up
Jun 16, 2012
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Heh, you believe we have top talent that keeps Ritchie not a top 6 winger on our club.

I don't get some Duck fans. Are the Ducks are really good team or are we a bad team? I think we're a bad team and lacking talent due to a multitude of reasons. Our record kinda reflects that. We really only have one top-6 forward - Getzlaf. That's it. Everyone else is middling and interchangeable. I'm hoping Kase gets into a groove again so he can be a second top-6 forward for us. LoL
Rakell and Silf are top 6 wingers. Honestly I have no idea what your definition of top 6 is if you think they aren’t

I agree we are limited on talent up front but we have a few good players.
 
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Paul4587

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I am talking about his last season when Getzlaf made him look serviceable which he does with anyone then he was out of the league that is why i said "drug addict" Penner.

Except he was talented enough to produce on that line despite many guys not being able to and he wasn’t out of the league within days, he played out the year for the caps...
 
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