State of the Devils Thread (Long Questionnaire)
- Thread starter NJ DevLolz
- Start date
glenwo2
LINDY RUFF NEEDS VIAGRA!!
It's Jim. Good luck trying to change this mind on anything once he's dug in.
Hey believe me...I know.
He didn't even acknowledge my point that Castron hit a Home-Run(Jesper Bratt) at the same draft that he struck out with the bases loaded(McLeod). He crapped on him for us having "mediocre picks" without acknowledging any of the good that Castron did.
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The 29th Pick
Still Alive !
glenwo2
LINDY RUFF NEEDS VIAGRA!!
The 29th Pick
Still Alive !
you know what I was talking about !Bet you no band today will ever get away with the Album Cover they had then.
probably not (the album cover)
JimEIV
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2003
- 66,141
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If you're touting Bratt after 37 picks including 2 #1 overalls over 4 years of higher picks than we've ever had in our entire history in New Jersey you'll never see the true state we are in right now...I get being a true fan, I've been one for a very long time, but the team has never been in a worse state than it is right now and to make an argument otherwise is just pure delusion.
JrFischer54
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2017
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Just because your allowed to do something doesn’t mean you should do it. They don’t need the space they don’t have to play him in any important role. No nhl wants him I’m sure being placed on waivers and clearing them is “insulting” enough no? You think a buyout isn’t insulting? If cory has any value at all it would be as a mentor to the kids in the ahl. Let him be a cautionary tale for them it won’t effect how the nhl devils go about their day to day operation. Maybe just maybe cory would want to stay in this area (ahl) rather then being bought out.
If there's a compliance buyout and Cory wants to stay and sit in the AHL, I'm perfectly fine with him being the call-up option. We could then leverage the buyout to take on some other team's dead weight for a juicy sweetener.
The reason we’re in this shit situation is pretty simple and it only comes down to 4 words...
1st word: David
2nd word: Conte
3rd word: Lou
4th word: Lamoriello
Unfortunately, this is something you will never grasp or wish to understand.
Billdo
Registered User
While I certainly don't think they left us anywhere close to what anyone can say was "good shape", it's been what, 6 years now? At some point the fruits of Sheros labor need to come to the surface.
- May 1, 2011
- 130,161
- 57,500
I think it’s okay to say Conte and Lou left us in miserable shape, while also critiquing the current/recent regime.
It’s hard to say if Castron has done a good job or not yet, but I’m all for keeping him for a couple more years.
The one positive I have to say about Shero personally in his time here is that he didn’t leave us with any bad contracts, though I’m sure plenty will argue Subban.
JrFischer54
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2017
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There is a ton of “shero guys” in this lineup or in the immediate pipeline. It’s still really amazing and sad he got fired.
Possible franchise goalie Blackwood
Franchise d man? Smith hopefully
Two franchise center men hughes nico
Leading scorer palm
Had hall for Larsson then flipped that for a nice package of legit prospects and a first.
what else did you want the man to get?
Being realistic Shero was basically starting with the talent of an expansion franchise imo. 6 years isn’t enough time to purge the dead wood draft and then develop players.
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NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 67,396
- 31,704
And we’ve had two straight last places in years #4 and #5 of the ‘rebuild’ with trading Coleman and losing Hall/Vat setting back the timeline further. Saying we have mostly Shero guys now after two straight last places is a horrible defense of him.
Subban would be a bad contract if we were close enough to the ceiling for it to ever matter. As things are it’s pretty irrelevant though.
PizzaAndPucks
New Jersey Angels diehard
- Nov 29, 2018
- 2,743
- 4,204
Realistically next season should of been the decision on parting ways with Shero and not in the middle of this current one. He seemed to be doing alot of things right even though we were lacking the results. Either way I like the direction we are heading in. We have 3 1st round licks this year to go along with an already good prospect pool. Adding guys like Foote Kuoakkanen , Bahl and Merkley to the mix will help with our lack of 2nds and 3rds in the draft this year. Those guys are all drafted in the 2nd round or higher and have a few seasons of development already so they should make an impact sooner rather than later. Now we can focus on trying to hit some homeruns if we get to use the Arizona and Vancouver picks.
- May 1, 2011
- 130,161
- 57,500
Since we got nothing else to talk about
Reasons why Shero was probably fired, at least in my mind.
Outside of the playoff year, we were either getting worse (in the standings) or staying just as bad every year. No improvement in record, outside of that middle year. This year was headed the same way.
We stacked up quite a bit in the summer and the results weren’t any better.
Reluctance to can Hynes and even extending him not even a year before he was fired.
Wouldn’t have been surprised if the failure to keep Hall around and sign an extension was another smear against him. The fact that we acquired Palmieri, Hall, Johansson and Vatanen (which were his biggest NHL ready acquisitions before last summer) when they were a bit younger and still didn’t have a competitive enough team when they were in their late 20’s and coming up on UFA. This was something I started to question even before the Shero firing.
And the one area where Shero really got duped was when he thought Schneider was good enough to be an integral piece of this team in 19-20, while the only insurance policy was a 22-23 year old rookie (who performed well, but Schneider did not) and that was a major factor in the terrible start and the horrific record up till about January or February in games where Blackwood did not play. Seriously the goalie situation screams something that killed this team. Before Cory’s sham market correction streak after his last call up, our record in games that Blackwood didn’t start was astronomically bad.
Reasons why Shero was probably fired, at least in my mind.
Outside of the playoff year, we were either getting worse (in the standings) or staying just as bad every year. No improvement in record, outside of that middle year. This year was headed the same way.
We stacked up quite a bit in the summer and the results weren’t any better.
Reluctance to can Hynes and even extending him not even a year before he was fired.
Wouldn’t have been surprised if the failure to keep Hall around and sign an extension was another smear against him. The fact that we acquired Palmieri, Hall, Johansson and Vatanen (which were his biggest NHL ready acquisitions before last summer) when they were a bit younger and still didn’t have a competitive enough team when they were in their late 20’s and coming up on UFA. This was something I started to question even before the Shero firing.
And the one area where Shero really got duped was when he thought Schneider was good enough to be an integral piece of this team in 19-20, while the only insurance policy was a 22-23 year old rookie (who performed well, but Schneider did not) and that was a major factor in the terrible start and the horrific record up till about January or February in games where Blackwood did not play. Seriously the goalie situation screams something that killed this team. Before Cory’s sham market correction streak after his last call up, our record in games that Blackwood didn’t start was astronomically bad.
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 67,396
- 31,704
Yeah all things being equal I’d have given Shero another year, if not another coaching tenure...but his record shouldn’t exactly inspire anger at his firing being unjust. It seems like Devil fans are more interested in the process than results, which is backwards thinking.
We are where we are now and we’re going to NEED Nico to take a big step forward next year after a small step backward this year, especially with his salary going up. We need Hughes to look like an NHL player, which he didn’t this year. Nothing is really going to change for the better until those two things happen and we get better coaching. And that’s not even getting into our other deficiencies.
Right now we have only two real proven difference making positives here, and one of them (K-Palm) might be on his way out too depending on who takes over at GM. It might be a stretch to call Blackwood proven but he has done well enough over parts of two seasons with a poor team.
We are where we are now and we’re going to NEED Nico to take a big step forward next year after a small step backward this year, especially with his salary going up. We need Hughes to look like an NHL player, which he didn’t this year. Nothing is really going to change for the better until those two things happen and we get better coaching. And that’s not even getting into our other deficiencies.
Right now we have only two real proven difference making positives here, and one of them (K-Palm) might be on his way out too depending on who takes over at GM. It might be a stretch to call Blackwood proven but he has done well enough over parts of two seasons with a poor team.
Shero was really hurt by neither of Zacha or McLeod being a top notch player. If either was at least a legit 2C it probably wouldn't seem as disappointing. I realize he was relying on Conte in 2015 but they did find Blackwood even if it has taken him some time to get it together. I expect Nico to develop into a very good two way center putting up about 60-70 points at his peak. Hughes I am not sure about and don't want to judge him based on one partial season at 18 years old on a train wreck of a team. He shows talent and spark and creativity but he's on the small side and will have to learn to minimize that issue. It's hard to imagine the futility will continue that long. It's always darkest before the dawn.
I would say the jury is still out on Shero's ultimate impact on the team. Most of the kids he drafted are still pretty young or not even pros yet. If Nico and Hughes both hit their potential, Smith becomes a good defenseman, and some others hit we may look back more positively than we do now.
glenwo2
LINDY RUFF NEEDS VIAGRA!!
So what you're actually saying here is :
If you don't think the same way I do (The team is in worse shape) but think the opposite, then we're delusional?
So we're not allowed to have opposing viewpoints in your eyes. Got it.
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This makes no sense whatsoever. How is someone able to flip a team with no assets, an old and depleted roster and a farm system that was equivalent to the team I play on every Thursday night in my beer league?
Are we aware that most of the picks he made are still playing junior hockey? Are we aware that every single valuable asset we have now is because of Shero?
Ray’s role was to get this team off of life support and get us out of bed so to speak but some are scratching their heads as to why we’re not running marathons. There was absolutely no way for us to be competitive in the timeframe, certain fans were expecting. They didn’t care about what got us there, they just wanted results.
He and Fitz have set us to have a very competitive team in the not too distant future and this years draft, whenever it’ll take place, will be the spring board that will move us from bottom feeders to legit contenders.
I know it’s not easy, I know it takes time but if you do it correctly, which is exactly what we’re doing at the moment, we’ll be in the drivers seat for the next decade plus!
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
- 67,396
- 31,704
All they have are magic beans and future stocks that may or may not pan out. Any fantasy GM can pile up a prospect pool and draft picks if you don't care about results over a seven-year stretch and get lotto lucky twice on top of it, but to actually start winning sometime before the next decade these guys have to be the right picks and developed into pro players.
Even our two biggest, surest futures had an underwhelming 2019. It's still early for Hughes but next year's huge for Nico. Does he flatten out into being a slightly better version of prime Travis Zajac, or does he make that step up most of us assume or hope he will into being the upper-echelon player that we need him to be?
And this idea they had nothing...they had the almighty cap space that all of us talked about for years, that they sat on for four years and for the most part failed to weaponize before finally using some of it on Subban and company in year five, and that didn't work either.
Even our two biggest, surest futures had an underwhelming 2019. It's still early for Hughes but next year's huge for Nico. Does he flatten out into being a slightly better version of prime Travis Zajac, or does he make that step up most of us assume or hope he will into being the upper-echelon player that we need him to be?
And this idea they had nothing...they had the almighty cap space that all of us talked about for years, that they sat on for four years and for the most part failed to weaponize before finally using some of it on Subban and company in year five, and that didn't work either.
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- May 1, 2011
- 130,161
- 57,500
I was surprised of the Shero firing at the time it happened, but thought even before the firing that if things went bad again next season with little to no improvement in the standings again, that he would either be gone at the conclusion of the 2020-2021 season or sitting atop a very hot seat.
And I remember it being suggested that Shero was nowhere near the hot seat and that the owners loved him, but 6-7 years is usually about what expansion team GM’s got if they only made the playoffs once or none at all.
And I remember it being suggested that Shero was nowhere near the hot seat and that the owners loved him, but 6-7 years is usually about what expansion team GM’s got if they only made the playoffs once or none at all.
JrFischer54
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2017
- 10,268
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Hall was gone majority of last season and this season was tanked by cory (who Shero didn’t even bring here) and a young Blackwood.
What would have been a realistic expectation again losing your mvp for the majority of the season and then having horrible goaltending play again from a guy you had no choice in playing and a rookie?
the only fault I put on Shero is coach. He should’ve gotten rid of Hynes sooner then he did but if that’s a fireable offense then Lou should’ve been shown the door after the John Mac fiasco.
JrFischer54
Registered User
- Apr 4, 2017
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I don’t even blame him for not using the cap space when he kinda did with palm and mojo. I don’t think your going to find many owners willing to take on X amount of millions in salary for a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
Which "weaponized cap space" moves should we have been in on? Datsyuk? Hossa? I can't really remember too many other of those types of moves, but I could just be forgetting one. I didn't have much of a problem with "the process". When you don't have a ton of assets you have to be selective about when you use them. Palmieri was a good move, MoJo made sense at the time but ultimately just didn't work out. The Mueller trade was bad. I didn't really have a problem with our rentals, unless the idea is we shouldn't have made them to begin with, in which case I'm fairly certain the criticism would have been that we didn't do anything.
But at the end of the day if you're not where ownership thinks you should be, or are unwilling to have more collaboration (which I think is really the root of why Shero was fired), you're probably going to lose your job. Hopefully the next GM, whether it's Fitz or somebody else, can take the good pieces Shero did leave us and do something with them. I don't think the situation is nearly as grim as some make it out to be.
But at the end of the day if you're not where ownership thinks you should be, or are unwilling to have more collaboration (which I think is really the root of why Shero was fired), you're probably going to lose your job. Hopefully the next GM, whether it's Fitz or somebody else, can take the good pieces Shero did leave us and do something with them. I don't think the situation is nearly as grim as some make it out to be.
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