State of the Devils Thread (Long Questionnaire)

JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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Amazing that Shero gets the blame for cory. He didn’t trade for him he didn’t even extend him. You really wanted him to have him in bingo game 1 this year? Or worse you wanted him to be bought out? Lol sorry but the train wreck that is cory is 100% on Lou.

I don’t think you guys realize how good of a gm Shero really was for this team. Hopefully whoever replaces him will be just as good.

also as far as the mike McLeod bust talk? Let’s at least give the kid a full season before we call him a bust? I remember the Zacha fan club asking for at least that much.
 

TheUnseenHand

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All they have are magic beans and future stocks that may or may not pan out. Any fantasy GM can pile up a prospect pool and draft picks if you don't care about results over a seven-year stretch and get lotto lucky twice on top of it, but to actually start winning sometime before the next decade these guys have to be the right picks and developed into pro players.

Even our two biggest, surest futures had an underwhelming 2019. It's still early for Hughes but next year's huge for Nico. Does he flatten out into being a slightly better version of prime Travis Zajac, or does he make that step up most of us assume or hope he will into being the upper-echelon player that we need him to be?

And this idea they had nothing...they had the almighty cap space that all of us talked about for years, that they sat on for four years and for the most part failed to weaponize before finally using some of it on Subban and company in year five, and that didn't work either.

In a salary cap world, magic beans are, by far, your best chance at building a long term contender. It's just the way it is.
 
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JimEIV

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Feb 19, 2003
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In a salary cap world, magic beans are, by far, your best chance at building a long term contender. It's just the way it is.
Magic beans have a luster...if you don't see the luster they are probably rabbit turds and not magic beans.

Wouldn't advise tasting.
 

Pitaya

Prince of the Alps, Nico Hischier
Dec 14, 2019
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Staff:

1) Do you want Tom Fitzgerald to remain GM. If not, then who?

Yes

2) Do you want Alain Nasreddine to remain Head Coach? If not, then who?

No. Gallant, Boudreau, or Gronborg (that's who I'd love but won't happen).

3) Do you want Paul Castron to remain as Director of Scouting?

1,000% yes.

Currently in the organization:

4) Who should be the next captain?

Nico

5) Based on what we know now, do you think the Hischier and Hughes duo is good enough to contend?

Yes, not yet, but yes provided we find actual goal scorers to play with them.

6) Did Hughes's rookie season temper his future outlook in your eyes?

Nope, it wasn't what I expected but you could see why he's held in the regard that he is.

7) Would you support Pavel Zacha in the 3C role next season?

1,000% yes and he needs to play with Bratt and Gusev.

8) Does Jesper Bratt play consistently in a top 6 role going forward?

Not necessarily if Zacha and Goose are with him it doesn't matter, that line should stay together.

9) Should the Devils re-sign Kyle Palmieri to a new deal next year?

Yes, I don't care that people think he's aging out of this cores window of contention, plus he's probably the only legit goal scorer on the team.

10) Is Mackenzie Blackwood the Devils starting goalie in 5 years?

Yes, but they've got to find a reliable backup who can start between 20 and 30 games next year though.

11) Which defensemen leads the team in toi next season?

Subban or Severson

13) Which prospect (less than 50 GP in the NHL) do you think becomes a key contributor in the next 3 years?

Joey Anderson or Boqvist. I hope Boqvist but think it'll be Anderson.

The Draft

14) Assuming the top three goes as expected (Lafrenniere, Byfield, Stutzle), who do you want at #6?

Rossi or Drysdale

15) Would you support the decision to take Jake Sanderson with the Coyotes pick at #10?

Sure but there will be wild cards taken earlier than 10 allowing us to have a better chance at landing a higher ceiling player.

16) Would you support the decision to take Yaroslav Askarov with Vancouver's pick at #17?
No, I believe he'll be good but I think taking a goalie that early is a bad idea with how absolutely impossible it is to predict goalies long term development.

Miscellaneous

17) If given the option, should the Devils utilize a compliance buyout? If yes, then who?

Schneider
Why in the heck would we use a COMPLIANCE buyout on Schneider?!

Those are like gold - we could trade for a gross contract and compliance buy it out (if thats allowed). You dont waste it on Schneider either, id use it on Subban way before Schneider
 

Billdo

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Why in the heck would we use a COMPLIANCE buyout on Schneider?!

Those are like gold - we could trade for a gross contract and compliance buy it out (if thats allowed). You dont waste it on Schneider either, id use it on Subban way before Schneider
Sorry for having an opinion first and foremost. I'd use it on Schneider because Subban is at worst a 2nd pairing defenseman who is obviously overpaid. He still holds value on this team. If Schneider wasn't a liability I wouldn't entertain the idea of buying him out. I just do not want to fall into the trap of thinking he found his game again when I have serious doubts about that. Sorry though for having an opinion. And I'm 99% sure you can't trade for a guy solely to use a compliance buyout on him.
 

Bleedred

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Why in the heck would we use a COMPLIANCE buyout on Schneider?!

Those are like gold - we could trade for a gross contract and compliance buy it out (if thats allowed). You dont waste it on Schneider either, id use it on Subban way before Schneider
Because Subban is a good (or at least decent at worst) player on a BAD contract.

Schneider is a BAD player (like worst goalie in the league bad) on a BAD contract.

Subban is 31 years old (next year) and is coming off just one bad season to date. Schneider turns 35 years old before the end of next season and has been bad for 4 years.

And last but not least, Schneider plays the most important position in the game and it’s MUCH easier to find a better goalie than him next year (because basically everyone in the league is better) than to find a player better than Subban to replace him.

Why is this so hard to understand for so many of you?
 

My3Sons

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Because Subban is a good (or at least decent at worst) player on a BAD contract.

Schneider is a BAD player (like worst goalie in the league bad) on a BAD contract.

Subban is 31 years old (next year) and is coming off just one bad season to date. Schneider turns 35 years old before the end of next season and has been bad for 4 years.

And last but not least, Schneider plays the most important position in the game and it’s MUCH easier to find a better goalie than him next year (because basically everyone in the league is better) than to find a player better than Subban to replace him.

Why is this so hard to understand for so many of you?

Wait, you see Cory as a great goalie for four years? Wow, that means NJ will have to extend him.
 

Pitaya

Prince of the Alps, Nico Hischier
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Because Subban is a good (or at least decent at worst) player on a BAD contract.

Schneider is a BAD player (like worst goalie in the league bad) on a BAD contract.

Subban is 31 years old (next year) and is coming off just one bad season to date. Schneider turns 35 years old before the end of next season and has been bad for 4 years.

And last but not least, Schneider plays the most important position in the game and it’s MUCH easier to find a better goalie than him next year (because basically everyone in the league is better) than to find a player better than Subban to replace him.

Why is this so hard to understand for so many of you?
It has nothing to do with how good they are. It has to do with their contracts.

Schneiders is up after one year. Using a free buyout on a deal with one year left simply doesnt make sense to me.

We are almost 100% likely not to be a playoff threat next year. Well be fighting for wild card. But after that anything can happen with a signing or trade or growth spurt in youth.

Thats why you use it on a multi-year deal. If it HAS to be used by a certain date and cant be used on a player after a trade - then Id rather use it on a multi-year deal like Subban or Butcher.
 

TBF1972

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May 19, 2018
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The one positive I have to say about Shero personally in his time here is that he didn’t leave us with any bad contracts, though I’m sure plenty will argue Subban.
I agree. Subban's contract is manageable, as it runs only for two more years and the team - even with a resigned Hall - had the cap space to absorb the added 4.5 million. I still would take the gamble and Subban may turn in better seasons the next two years and lower the amount of the overpayment.
 

TBF1972

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Sorry for having an opinion first and foremost. I'd use it on Schneider because Subban is at worst a 2nd pairing defenseman who is obviously overpaid. He still holds value on this team. If Schneider wasn't a liability I wouldn't entertain the idea of buying him out. I just do not want to fall into the trap of thinking he found his game again when I have serious doubts about that. Sorry though for having an opinion. And I'm 99% sure you can't trade for a guy solely to use a compliance buyout on him.
If you remove Schneider from the equation, the Devils have MBW and zero goaltenders with a NHL track record. You would at least need a back-up, who can start 30 games at the NHL level. Better you opt for a more experienced goalie, who can share the starting position with MBW. Having then the current Bingo trio of Senn, Cormier and McIntyre as potential injury call-ups, also looks rather light. Especially if you don't have a platoon of two starting caliber goalies in the NHL. So you might want to add an experienced goalie for Bing, who would get the first look for NHL call-ups and help groom the young goalies in the AHL. Schneider could serve this role and he seems to be a loyal team first guy.
 

TBF1972

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It has nothing to do with how good they are. It has to do with their contracts.

Schneiders is up after one year. Using a free buyout on a deal with one year left simply doesnt make sense to me.

We are almost 100% likely not to be a playoff threat next year. Well be fighting for wild card. But after that anything can happen with a signing or trade or growth spurt in youth.

Thats why you use it on a multi-year deal. If it HAS to be used by a certain date and cant be used on a player after a trade - then Id rather use it on a multi-year deal like Subban or Butcher.
Schneider's and Subban's contract have both two more years and will be up in the summer of 2022. Buying out Subban makes even less sense than buying out Schneider. The RHD depth behind Subban after the Vatanen trade is:
Severson
Carrick
Mermis
Tennyson
Jacobs
Quenneville
 

Billdo

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Schneider's and Subban's contract have both two more years and will be up in the summer of 2022. Buying out Subban makes even less sense than buying out Schneider. The RHD depth behind Subban after the Vatanen trade is:
Severson
Carrick
Mermis
Tennyson
Jacobs
Quenneville
Hell the NHL depth if Subban were to be bought out would be Severson, Butcher, Mueller, Carrick, Tennyson, Mermis. That's horrifying.
 

Bleedred

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It has nothing to do with how good they are. It has to do with their contracts.

Schneiders is up after one year. Using a free buyout on a deal with one year left simply doesnt make sense to me.

We are almost 100% likely not to be a playoff threat next year. Well be fighting for wild card. But after that anything can happen with a signing or trade or growth spurt in youth.

Thats why you use it on a multi-year deal. If it HAS to be used by a certain date and cant be used on a player after a trade - then Id rather use it on a multi-year deal like Subban or Butcher.
Both contracts are multi year deals. They both expire in 2022.
 

JrFischer54

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Apr 4, 2017
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Cory holds more value as a backup in bing then buying him out. Suban while bad at the least you hope maybe you can down the road trade him for something while retaining x amount of his salary to drive up the return? That’s why I wouldn’t buy out either player.


Again the devils will be a bottom basement team probably next year. We will be a bottom basement cap team also. There is zero reason to use a buyout
 

Billdo

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Oct 28, 2008
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Cory holds more value as a backup in bing then buying him out. Suban while bad at the least you hope maybe you can down the road trade him for something while retaining x amount of his salary to drive up the return? That’s why I wouldn’t buy out either player.


Again the devils will be a bottom basement team probably next year. We will be a bottom basement cap team also. There is zero reason to use a buyout
There's no reason to buy anyone out so my saying they could buy out Schneider was moreso just a hypothetical. We don't need cap space. Sign a legit back up, bury Schneider in Bing to mentor, and move forward. Subban has a much higher chance of rebounding than Schneider. Subban was still a 2nd pairing level defenseman at worst. Schneider is replacement level at this point unless you believe he's fully recovered.
 

My3Sons

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why are we even having a buyout discussion it doesn’t make any sense

That’s a fair point but I think it isn’t about the cap. It’s about the player issues. For Cory he potentially takes up a roster spot at a position where you can’t hide anyone and you really only get two slots per team. I’m not sure about the folks arguing that Subban should be bought out but they may not see him as a viable NHL defender. I don’t share that view but these are just opinions and often there isn’t a true correct answer.
 
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Spoiled Bratt

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Jun 29, 2016
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All they have are magic beans and future stocks that may or may not pan out. Any fantasy GM can pile up a prospect pool and draft picks if you don't care about results over a seven-year stretch and get lotto lucky twice on top of it, but to actually start winning sometime before the next decade these guys have to be the right picks and developed into pro players.

Even our two biggest, surest futures had an underwhelming 2019. It's still early for Hughes but next year's huge for Nico. Does he flatten out into being a slightly better version of prime Travis Zajac, or does he make that step up most of us assume or hope he will into being the upper-echelon player that we need him to be?

And this idea they had nothing...they had the almighty cap space that all of us talked about for years, that they sat on for four years and for the most part failed to weaponize before finally using some of it on Subban and company in year five, and that didn't work either.

What are you talking about? The magic beans that you seem to be brushing off as if it’s no big deal is the foundation of every team in a rebuild. Shero pulled off miracles to get proven players with those magic beans. It’s also pretty hard to add additional assets if we have garbage players to move in order to get the proper picks we need to "fast forward" a rebuild (see the Rangers for example).

As for cap space, what player was moved for cap reasons that we should’ve went after? We got a bonafide top #4 dman for penny ok the dollar. Was there a top line forward that got moved that I wasn’t aware of? Complaining with no real awareness of what happened in the rest of the league isn’t assessing the issue but it’s mostly wishful thinking.

We have a 21 year old and an 18 year old who are now the faces of this franchise and with the garbage roster we had, I don’t know what your expectations are moving forward. Hughes wasn’t ready and played up and down our lineup, got moved from center to wing back to center to finally stay put with Simmonds and some other chump. The kid has expectations and didn’t really live up to the hype but the jump he did gave him and the rest of the hockey world a reality check. He will be elite, it’s just a matter of time.

As for Hischier, he was injured and had a unmotivated Taylor Hall to drag along until he got moved to the Yotes. I am perfectly fine with Hischier and I would take a responsible two way forward with the ceiling of eventually becoming a Patrice Bergeron, I’ll take that any day of the week over a scoring machine that will put his team in a corner when he doesn’t have the puck on his stick.

I have no idea how some can be down on the future of this franchise when looking at the pieces we got as of 3 years ago and what we’ll be adding in this upcoming draft.
 

Cheddabombs

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Looool at people complaining about Shero just collecting draft picks and not much has come from them. As if the players on our team that were past draft picks were major contributors right off the bat or something. Severson's the only one that came up relatively quick in his D+3 season. Wood was a regular in his D+4 season, Blackwood was a regular this year in his D+5 season.

We should jusst be starting to see some fruits of the 2016 draft come through. McLeod wasn't a good pick, let's all admit that, but we also got Bratt from that draft who became a regular in his D+2 season. Of course Nico and Hughes stepped into the lineup right away. Boqvist was a high 2nd and will likely become a regular next season after spending some time in the NHL already in his D+3 season. It's just too soon from the 2017 draft onwards to be like "we actually need to do something with those picks" well no shit give them time to actually develop. Now is the time when we should be getting regular contributions from the 2014/2015 draft class and lest we forget that 2014 draft one of the worst ever perhaps?

John Quenneville
Josh Jacobs
Connor Chatham
Ryan Rehill
JD Dudek
Brandon Baddock

Boqvist has played 10 less NHL games than that 2014 draft class combined.

Shero and Castron have done a great job restocking the cabinet, people are just too impatient to realize that.
 

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
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Again, we’ve had five years going on seven to ‘stock the cabinet’, any competent GM should be able to do what Shero did with two lotto wins, five years of not really caring about results plus another two or three on the horizon because we’re now in rebuild 2.0. All of Shero's best moves (Hall, Vat, Palm) he's had to cash out on other than Palm, and for all we know he might have been willing to cash him out too.

Rebuilds are an easy concept to sell but they only work if you can develop the younger players and keep what you have. People are just glossing over the fact we’re already in rebuild 2.0 because they’ve talked themselves into believing Lou was so awful we need ten years on a rebuild and somehow Hall, Vat and Palm were just all bridge guys who’re all likely going to be better than anyone Shero drafted that isn’t a #1 OA.

He wasn't trading for Hall, Palm, Vat and MarJo with the idea of flipping them again, they were supposed to be the vet components as the kids developed. Instead he had to cash out of all of them, which was an utter failure on the rebuild and that's been glossed over here.
 
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Cheddabombs

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Again, we’ve had five years going on seven to ‘stock the cabinet’, any competent GM should be able to do what Shero did with two lotto wins, five years of not really caring about results plus another two or three on the horizon because we’re now in rebuild 2.0. All of Shero's best moves (Hall, Vat, Palm) he's had to cash out on other than Palm, and for all we know he might have been willing to cash him out too.

Rebuilds are an easy concept to sell but they only work if you can develop the younger players and keep what you have. People are just glossing over the fact we’re already in rebuild 2.0 because they’ve talked themselves into believing Lou was so awful we need ten years on a rebuild and somehow Hall, Vat and Palm were just all bridge guys who’re all likely going to be better than anyone Shero drafted that isn’t a #1 OA.

He wasn't trading for Hall, Palm, Vat and MarJo with the idea of flipping them again, they were supposed to be the vet components as the kids developed. Instead he had to cash out of all of them, which was an utter failure on the rebuild and that's been glossed over here.

He's had 4 years, I don't count being named the GM in early May and having Conte run the 2015 draft as a part of Shero's portfolio of work. Zacha was a Conte pick, so was Blackwood. And he had very little to sell of when he took over. Look at the Rangers and how fast they were able to retool (though a still a work in progress of course). We didn't have a McDonagh, a Hayes, a Stepan, a Raanta, etc. We had Gelinas, Matteau, Fiddler, Kalinin, Wedgewood. And the decent players we did trade we got back strong returns with Larsson and Henrique.

This isn't being a Shero apologist or anything, I don't care. These are just the facts. I get being frustrated it's taken so long but this is what happens when he had to take over a team with an aging group with not many attractive pieces to trade away, or many draft impact draft picks coming in from prior years. "yeah but Severson, Wood, Coleman!" I f***ing get it, but again it took time for those guys to break in - time that we're all of sudden not giving Shero's picks? Why, out of frustration? Yes. McLeod wasn't a good pick. Bratt was. Maybe a few other 2016 picks can turn into something but it's still really early when looking at 2017 and beyond picks. "Yeah but even our 1st overall picks aren't doing much!" Is it Shero's fault he won the lottery in years where the reward wasn't McDavid or Matthews?

Realistically the turning point for this team was the Schneider trade. We had a great pick and could've taken a impact player like Horvat, instead we got an elite goalie at the time that single-handily dragged shitty teams to not so shitty finishes in years when a top pick could've catapulted this team into the different direction in McDavid and Matthews. And then when the team's complexion started to change for the better, Schneider turned into a potato.

Shero's biggest downfall was not getting rid of Hynes early enough. I think it was the same thing in Pittsburgh, and it happened here too. He was too loyal. He learned but he learned too late. Now we have an opportunity to get a real coach like Gallant or Boudreau or Lavy.
 

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