Post-Game Talk: Stars 3, Pens 0 - The Scuderi Appreciation Thread

[WhatsaMaatta]

Saying that he shouldn't be playing with someone he's uncomfortable with doesn't mean he should be playing with Kunitz. I want them to try Plotnikov or make a trade for someone who Sid is comfortable with.

If they're basing it on both Crosby's comfort level and the current level that player is at (which they should be accounting for both), then none of Kunitz, Perron or Bennett should be on that line. To completely dismiss Crosby's comfort level with his linemates is asinine.

Why don't we try some of these guys on Sid's wing before declaring him uncomfortable?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Saying that he shouldn't be playing with someone he's uncomfortable with doesn't mean he should be playing with Kunitz. I want them to try Plotnikov or make a trade for someone who Sid is comfortable with.

If they're basing it on both Crosby's comfort level and the current level that player is at (which they should be accounting for both), then none of Kunitz, Perron or Bennett should be on that line. To completely dismiss Crosby's comfort level with his linemates is asinine.

There you go. Plotnikov is another option to add to your list of Perron, Bennett, and Kunitz. I think his strengths could complement Sid and Kessel well.

Only one of those players has been tried on Sid's LW this year for any reasonable amount of time. Given that he's stunk there like he did for 75% of last year, you try someone else. You don't prop up dead weight to cater to your star's preferences when you aren't scoring. If Kunitz is the only LW option on our roster Sid's comfortable with, he needs to deal with being uncomfortable, because what he's comfortable with isn't working.

 

[IcedCapp]

I don't understand your comment. What is "hit on"?

When two vowels go walking, he first one does the talking.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Why don't we try some of these guys on Sid's wing before declaring him uncomfortable?

The entire premise of my argument is the idea that Crosby isn't comfortable with playing with 2 righties. That's why I'm saying he'd be uncomfortable with playing with both Kessel and one of Bennett and Perron.

There you go. Plotnikov is another option to add to your list of Perron, Bennett, and Kunitz.

But realistically, that's not an option, because he's going to be playing with Malkin until he's comfortable in the NHL. Plotnikov also has his own issues that make me think he wouldn't work there. My first option would be to trade for someone that fits there, not play someone who sucks or someone who Crosby is uncomfortable with there.

Only one of those players has been tried on Sid's LW this year for any reasonable amount of time. Given that he's stunk there like he did for 75% of last year, you try someone else. You don't prop up dead weight to cater to your star's preferences when you aren't scoring. If Kunitz is the only LW option on our roster Sid's comfortable with, he needs to deal with being uncomfortable, because what he's comfortable with isn't working.

Again, you're not reading what I'm saying. I'm not saying Kunitz should be the LW on Crosby's line. I'm saying it's stupid that you're completely dismissing Crosby's comfort level. Him playing with someone he's uncomfortable with wouldn't be any better than playing with someone that isn't good. You're confusing me saying that you can't dismiss Crosby's comfort level as an endorsement of Kunitz, which it's not.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Again, you're not reading what I'm saying. I'm not saying Kunitz should be the LW on Crosby's line. I'm saying it's stupid that you're completely dismissing Crosby's comfort level. Him playing with someone he's uncomfortable with wouldn't be any better than playing with someone that isn't good. You're confusing me saying that you can't dismiss Crosby's comfort level as an endorsement of Kunitz, which it's not.

The reality is that Kunitz is one of two LWs (with Plotnikov) who are options for Sid's wing at this point. So either one of those LWs need to play well on that line - one down, one to go - or Sid needs to expand his preferences.

Sticking with Kunitz for a lack of absolutely ideal options that check off all of Sid's boxes for a winger has been and will continue to be a mistake. Always making comfort the 1st priority has bred complacency.

 

[mpp9]

Was Kunitz that bad against Dallas? I thought Perron was average to poor. Plotnikov was bad. So unless he was worse than them, I don't see the reason for the tirade right now.

Especially when it's game freaking one.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The reality is that Kunitz is one of two LWs (with Plotnikov) who are options for Sid's wing at this point. So either one of those LWs need to play well on that line - one down, one to go - or Sid needs to expand his preferences.

Sticking with Kunitz for a lack of absolutely ideal options that check off all of Sid's boxes for a winger has been and will continue to be a mistake. Always making comfort the 1st priority has bred complacency.

Or we can trade for someone that fits Crosby's comfort level and also doesn't suck. There are other options other than playing Crosby with someone he's not comfortable with if Plots, Dupuis (I'll include him too) and Kunitz can't handle that spot. If none of those 3 work, I'd be looking to make a trade for a lefty winger that will work there. You don't go stepping on the toes of Crosby and Malkin just because you think you know better than they do. You try and find the right pieces that make them comfortable so they produce the best they can, not tell them "tough ****, you're playing with Perron and I don't care if you don't like it".

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Or we can trade for someone that fits Crosby's comfort level and also doesn't suck. There are other options other than playing Crosby with someone he's not comfortable with if Plots, Dupuis (I'll include him too) and Kunitz can't handle that spot. If none of those 3 work, I'd be looking to make a trade for a lefty winger that will work there.

I'm working with what we've got rather than what we could get in an ideal scenario where we scrape up enough disposable assets to land an LW better than Kunitz, Dupuis, and Plotnikov.

What we have right now is Kunitz, Plotnikov, and RH shots, and Kunitz has **** the bed for almost the last calendar year. Try something new. I'm not waiting for the miracle cavalry.

 

[td_ice]

Honestly. Kowtowing to star/vet comfort is 90% of the reason we struggle with relatively simple line-up decisions.

For real

I'm so sick of this subtext of "comfort level" in virtually all of our decision making.

 

[td_ice]

When two vowels go walking, he first one does the talking.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm working with what we've got rather than what we could get in an ideal scenario where we scrape up enough disposable assets to land an LW better than Kunitz, Dupuis, and Plotnikov.

What we have right now is Kunitz, Plotnikov, and RH shots, and Kunitz has **** the bed for almost the last calendar year. Try something new. I'm not waiting for the miracle cavalry.

That's just the thing. There are no good candidates for that spot on the roster. Plotnikov can't speak English and plays the game WAY too slow to keep up with Sid and Kessel. Kunitz sucks. Dupuis is a walking injury. Those are the only LHS wingers on the roster, unless you want to bump Bonino to LW. The Pens need to be looking outside the organization for that last spot, because realistically, there isn't anyone on the roster that fits that spot.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

For real

I'm so sick of this subtext of "comfort level" in virtually all of our decision making.

It's funny. We have no problem playing Bennett and Perron out of their comfort zones for the rest of their natural lives when we could easily flip them, but it's taboo to even try two RH shots on Sid's wing when his comfortable LW's loafed for a year.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

That's just the thing. There are no good candidates for that spot on the roster. Plotnikov can't speak English and plays the game WAY too slow to keep up with Sid and Kessel. Kunitz sucks. Dupuis is a walking injury. Those are the only LHS wingers on the roster, unless you want to bump Bonino to LW. The Pens need to be looking outside the organization for that last spot, because realistically, there isn't anyone on the roster that fits that spot.

If we did that without even trying anyone else, wed be a sadder organization than I thought. Like I said, I'm working with what we've got instead of crossing my fingers for a 1st line LW to land in our laps.

Nitpicking all our other options out of hand is an implicit endorsement of Kunitz for the time being, and I won't sign off on it.

 

[td_ice]

It's funny. We have no problem playing Bennett and Perron out of their comfort zones for the rest of their natural lives when we could easily flip them, but it's taboo to even try two RH shots on Sid's wing when his comfortable LW's loafed for a year.

Some teams have a philosophy of "what have you done for me lately", which I'm not saying is always the best. As that can be problematic depending on the situation. But man, this organization has it in the opposite extreme, of, "we remember what you did for us in '09, and we will NEVER FORGET IT." Heck, it almost got Gonch a gig at age 41.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Some teams have a philosophy of "what have you done for me lately", which I'm not saying is always the best. As that can be problematic depending on the situation. But man, this organization has it in the opposite extreme, of, "we remember what you did for us in '09, and we will NEVER FORGET IT." Heck, it almost got Gonch a gig at age 41.

Too true.

The org thinks that single Cup in '09 leaves a much larger legacy than it actually does. It's more a reminder of what could have been than something to celebrate and revisit until all the alumni retire.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

That's just the thing. There are no good candidates for that spot on the roster. Plotnikov can't speak English and plays the game WAY too slow to keep up with Sid and Kessel. Kunitz sucks. Dupuis is a walking injury. Those are the only LHS wingers on the roster, unless you want to bump Bonino to LW. The Pens need to be looking outside the organization for that last spot, because realistically, there isn't anyone on the roster that fits that spot.

We do have other options at wing, but you're already crossing them off in the same fashion the Pens' front office has. Try these guys on Sid's wing. They have skill and they won't look any worse than Kunitz has.

 

[WhatsaMaatta]

If we did that without even trying anyone else, wed be a sadder organization than I thought. Like I said, I'm working with what we've got instead of crossing my fingers for a 1st line LW to land in our laps.

Nitpicking all our other options out of hand is an implicit endorsement of Kunitz for the time being, and I won't sign off on it.

Especially when we have a bigger need for NHL defensemen than another winger.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Especially when we have a bigger need for NHL defensemen than another winger.

For sure. Hadn't even taken that into account.

 

[td_ice]

Too true.

The org thinks that single Cup in '09 leaves a much larger legacy than it actually does. It's more a reminder of what could have been than something to celebrate and revisit until all the alumni retire.

Couldn't have said it better.

It will be a fitting epitaph when looking back at this era, if it continues to disappoint.

 

[TheSniper26]

I get the impression that those within the organization are probably mistaking Sid's unwillingness to assess guys like Kunitz honestly as some kind of endorsement. Crosby is never going to go to management and be honest about how lousy Kunitz is right now. He just won't. That's not his personality. The guy seems to go out of his way to not ruffle feathers(so does Geno actually). This is how I imagine it going:

Coaches: "Are you comfortable playing with Kunitz on the left side?"
Crosby: "Yeah I mean I've played with Kuni there a lot so we're pretty comfortable with each other."
Coaches: *Sidney Crosby is wildly uncomfortable with anyone besides Kunitz*/vacant stare

Cut to: Out in the first round.

Rinse and repeat until Kunitz's number is hanging in the rafters.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If we did that without even trying anyone else, wed be a sadder organization than I thought. Like I said, I'm working with what we've got instead of crossing my fingers for a 1st line LW to land in our laps.

Nitpicking all our other options out of hand is an implicit endorsement of Kunitz for the time being, and I won't sign off on it.

Kessel landed in our laps and now Boedker will, too.

But really what will inevitably happen with Kunitz is that he'll suck, he'll get sent to Malkin's line, he'll suck, he'll get sent to the third line, he'll look better and he'll go back to Crosby's line as soon as that line hits a snag. Throw in an injury somewhere as a perfect excuse for his play. Dupuis, Bennett, Perron or maybe Fehr will be stuck on the other wing for awhile. Maybe Plotnikov but he'll probably be put on L3 when Kunitz goes to L2 and that might be for the best. Perron gets traded for a defenseman unless they think Scudjoy is the way to go and Perron clicks with Malkin.

 

[DegenX]

No pre-game or GDT up yet, so I'll leave this here:

 

[drpepper]

How do we know what Crosby's preferences are or aren't again?

EDIT: Or what his comfort level is or isn't?

 

[billybudd]

I don't understand this comment. What are "young players in action"?

With the ones that Phoenix has, you see those in the NHL when you pick the burner out of Canada instead of some 105 pound guy out of Minnesota who looks like he's 11 years old and performs a role we will not have a job opening for in the next 7 years. Or when you trade your aging, lame-duck D for the first type of player.

There you go. Plotnikov is another option to add to your list of Perron, Bennett, and Kunitz. I think his strengths could complement Sid and Kessel well.

Only one of those players has been tried on Sid's LW this year for any reasonable amount of time. Given that he's stunk there like he did for 75% of last year, you try someone else. You don't prop up dead weight to cater to your star's preferences when you aren't scoring. If Kunitz is the only LW option on our roster Sid's comfortable with, he needs to deal with being uncomfortable, because what he's comfortable with isn't working.

Perron also stunk for 75% of last year, while stinking remarkably worse at defense, evidenced by a minus 8 in our uniform, combined with his Yakupov like GA/60 on the Penguins, neither of which were problems Kunitz (or any forwards other than Max "out of the NHL" Lapierre) manifested. Perron also stunk worse than Kunitz on Thursday.

Bennett stunk for both 100% of last year and 100% of the year before, while having the singular distinction of being the only Penguin winger linemate to blank Sidney Crosby at 5 on 5 over the course of an entire season who did not retire the next offseason (Comrie, Pyatt). If that wasn't enough, he's comfortably the least productive forward on the NHL roster, career and per-game career, apart from three rookies, who have played 1 game, 1 game, and 11 games ever. Bennett does look a little better than usual, but a) that's like bragging about being able to hurdle a crack in the sidewalk and b) it doesn't matter how he looks until he starts producing like more than a middle of the road 4th liner, which he doesn't do until he actually does.

If you're going to complain endlessly about Kunitz, at least apply the same standard to everybody, instead of pointing at 3 separate, year-old piles of **** and pretending the 2 bigger piles are actually hot fudge sundays. Jesus.

 

[IcedCapp]

How do we know what Crosby's preferences are or aren't again?

EDIT: Or what his comfort level is or isn't?

We don't. But people assume because they refuse to believe an org that just played Scuderi more than Maatta is dumb.