GDT: Stares vs Aves(yes I'm bringing it back) 7PM MST

[a mangy Meowth]

I don't want to see Ray Bennett after this season is over. Frankly I'd like him gone today.

 

[Perratrooper]

I'm sure many of you have the same view, but I think it's time to move on from Jost for another reclamation project such as Pulj, but I'd be happy with almost anything. As I stated last night I feel Jost is taking away an opportunity from Kamenev and if management, coaching or whoever continues to push Jost into this lineup we're going to end up letting the better player walk. I honestly thought Kam was one of our better forwards last night and was creating dangerous chances consistently, this after playing inconsistently throughout the year and likely having little to no confidence.

 

[S E P H]

Lot of Avs fans were arrogant when the Taylor Hall trade discussions were going on saying that we absolutely did not need a player like him and that we could win it all with our current roster. I knew this would backfire, we were in prime position to acquire him and could have easily beaten Arizona’s offer. Not saying we should have gutted our farm team for him, but he would have definitely made an impact on our team.

We are 4-7-3 since the trade.

I still don't want Hall not because he's bad, but because I don't think this is the season to go all in on.

 

[Ararana]

I still don't want Hall not because he's bad, but because I don't think this is the season to go all in on.

Avs aren't winning a cup with this defense. Problem is next year we'll probably have two rookies back there. You'd have a hard time convincing me we could win a cup with that.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Avs aren't winning a cup with this defense. Problem is next year we'll probably have two rookies back there. You'd have a hard time convincing me we could win a cup with that.

I think they need to keep adding and filling the roster holes. I think Kadri has progressively moved away from the two-way game that Babcock demanded he play, and is moving more towards "I think I'm a superstar and will do whatever I want". Because of that, I think we really, really need a shutdown center.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm sure many of you have the same view, but I think it's time to move on from Jost for another reclamation project such as Pulj, but I'd be happy with almost anything. As I stated last night I feel Jost is taking away an opportunity from Kamenev and if management, coaching or whoever continues to push Jost into this lineup we're going to end up letting the better player walk. I honestly thought Kam was one of our better forwards last night and was creating dangerous chances consistently, this after playing inconsistently throughout the year and likely having little to no confidence.

I've always hated the Jost pick and still view Chychrun as the major miss.

AVs badly needed DMen and they choose a smallish forward, lacking physical skills. Not sure, maybe the weighting was on the interview and Jost is a friendly enough individual. Chychrun has the physical abilities, but weaker IQ.

Notwithstanding, I agree about dumping Jost. He adds so little to the team. Too small defensively and lacks strong skating on the offensive. I rather take a chance for another team's reclamation: Poolparty, Juolevi or Zacha.

 

[S E P H]

Avs aren't winning a cup with this defense. Problem is next year we'll probably have two rookies back there. You'd have a hard time convincing me we could win a cup with that.

Two rookies? You talking about Timmins and Byram? Timmins isn't guaranteed a spot next IMHO. He's missed a month with an injury thus far this season and even though it's a nice break all this time loss will eventually come back to bite him. That doesn't mean that I don't think he's going to be an NHL player one day, but it will take longer than most. If he does make it, it's going to be due to his hockey IQ alone and that's something Avs very much need on the back-end.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

I’m quickly losing hope of this year’s team being a contender.

Maybe next season, but we don’t look ready at all. Good teams simply don’t blow this many leads and throw away points. This is awful.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I mean what can you do really? The Avs playes a phenomenal game at even strength.


But when your PP, PK, and goaltending are struggling it is very hard to win games just off of quality 5 on 5 play.



That said, I really dont think its panic time at all. Our even strength game is very very good and that's what matters the most. Goaltending needs to sort itself out. Likewise with the PP. A group of MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog, Kadri, etc. Will sort things out soon enough and go on a solid hot streak where they operate at 50% for 6 or 7 games in a row here soon enough.


The big area of concern I have is the PK. It's just becoming more and more clear that our Defenders aren't great PKers. A guy like Cole or Zadorov can block shots decently well, but they are absolutely brutal at getting sticks in passing lanes. We need a Dman who is actually a positive impact player on the penalty kill because right now our best penalty killer on the back end is Graves, and he should be the #4 guy in a 4-man rotation.


Also cant help but think of the impact Pageau would have on the PK. He literally checks off every box of what this team needs right now. Hopefully Joe sees this and just pays up to get someone like Pageau or Coleman out of New Jersey.


Frustration starting to set in that these quality games aren't turning into Ws but Bednar is absolutely right. They're doing tonnes of things right. Just need to tighten up a few minor details and start getting some timely saves from our goaltending.

Statistically, he’s the worst. The Avs give up the most shot attempts per 60 against with him out there (by far), shots on goal against, unblocked attempts against, etc. Last night he gave up two royal road passes on back to back goals, but was bailed out by Benn’s foot being 1/4 of a centimeter off the ice.

Statistically, Z is actually by far their most effective D on the PK by the stats and it’s by kind of a wide margin. I’m on a phone right now so it’s tough to post these but the Avs give up 23 shot attempts more per 60 with Graves out there and 10 shots on goal per 60 with him on the PK.

The PK wasn’t good last year either but Graves is much worse than Nemeth in that spot.

 

[dahrougem2]

I really don't like the coaching staff's insistence on playing Ryan Graves like he's a 1st pairing defensemen. Dude gets paired with Makar and is also their go-to guy on the PK, when he should be neither.

 

[Avsboy]

Graves doesn't pass the eye test either. He makes weird pinches all the time and looks slow.

 

[Avs425]

First goal was bad, reversed goal was bad and the OT goal he didn’t even look like he tried to make a save. Not just picking on him like people seem to think posters are but he has not been good at all. As of right now, yes, Francouz would be better to go with. He’s had 2 bad games where Grubauer has been bad to mediocre almost the whole season.

Plus you seemed to have glanced over where i said the TEAM played bad in OT and Bednar is a big part of the issues by not making adjustments throughout this very thread. But nice cherry picking.

You literally pick 3 minutes out of the 63 played... what's that about cherry picking.........

 

[The Kingslayer]

Graves doesn't pass the eye test either. He makes weird pinches all the time, doesn't contribute offensively at all, and looks slow.

I agree with the pinches, poor decisions, abysmal with the puck, terrible penalty killer and cant clear pucks BUT his offensive numbers are very good for a first yr dman.

 

[S3rkie]

I think they need to keep adding and filling the roster holes. I think Kadri has progressively moved away from the two-way game that Babcock demanded he play, and is moving more towards "I think I'm a superstar and will do whatever I want". Because of that, I think we really, really need a shutdown center.

They just need a 3C overall, Jost was still supposed to be that this year for some reason, now they're basically playing Bellmare in that role when he was brought in for 4th line minutes. Their insistence on saving face on Jost is hurting two lines. f*** call up Bowers as this point and sit Jost, do anything if you're not willing to fill that hole via trade. Standing pat obviously isn't doing anything. He's played just as bad if not worse than when he was sent down to the AHL so why is it different now. Because you know it's not going to improve his game? So why is he still playing? Hands down he's just not a good enough player or not the right player for this system. Hit eject. It's situations like this and the special teams that drive me crazy with this org, why wait until your run yourself into the ground before fixing something. It's a large enough sample size shit or get off the pot.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I’m quickly losing hope of this year’s team being a contender.

Maybe next season, but we don’t look ready at all. Good teams simply don’t blow this many leads and throw away points. This is awful.

Never mind contenders im now seriously thinking if they will make the playoffs.

 

[nightonthesun]

Makes little sense to me to act as though the team made some huge mistake by not dropping assets to get half a year of Taylor Hall. As if we know how that would've played out.

Last night the team was excellent for long stretches. They were unlucky but good. I'd rather them be unlucky and good than lucky and bad. It's frustrating, sure. my instant reaction was to throw my phone and curse like a maniac ... but ultimately, this loss last night was a better-played game than many of the Ws they picked up in October.

One criticism I'll happily make is that Jost needed an Eagles roster spot awhile ago. Bowers is hot - the time for that swap is now.

 

[Avs425]

For those of you B****ing about recent goaltending, consider this, since December (last 20 games):

Not the top line:
Jost (not that we don't already know) - 4 points in last 20 PP points= 1 (2 point in last 10 games +/- +1)
Kadri - 7 points in the last 20 PP points= 1 (5 points in last 10 games +/- -3)
Burakovsky - 7 points in his last 20 PP points= 1 (4 points in last 10 games +/- -1)
Donskoi - 7 point in his last 18 played - PP points= 0 (1 point in last 8 games (missed last two with injury) +/- -1)
Compher - 9 points in last 20 PP points = 1 (6 points in last 10 games +/- 0)
Nichushkin - 11 points in last 20 PP points = 0 (6 points in last 10 games +/- +6)
PEB - 8 points in last 20 PP points = 0 (6 points in last 10 games +/- - 1)
Where has Matt Nieto gone? - 6 points in last 20 PP points = 0(3 points in last 10 games +/- +1)
Calvert - 11 points in last 20 games PP points = 0 (4 points in last 10 games +/- +4)
Thats 59 points through these 9 players over the last 20 games and only 4 Power Play points

The top line:
Mackinnon 26 points, PP points =10
Rants 15 points , PP points =4
Landy 13, PP points =6
Thats 54 points and 20 power play points.

On D
EJ - 3 points since December 19th (last 12 games) +/- +4 PP points =0
Z - 2 points in the last 20 games (1 point in last 10 games +/- -4) PP points= 0
Graves - 7 points in last 20 games (1 point in last 10 games +/- +6) PP points = 0
Cole - 10 points in last 20 games (5 points in last 10 games +/- +4)PP points =0
G - 15 points in last 20 games (12 points in last 10 games +/- 0) PP points =7
Makar 7 points in last 12 games (injury, +/- -6) PP points =3
Barbie 2 points in 7 games in December +/- +4 PP Points = 0

Gru - 3W - 5L - 2OTL - Previous to December 9W - 5L - 2OTL
Frank - 6W - 2L - 2OTL - Previous to December 5W - 2L - 0OTL

Overall, the last 20 games, we have just not put the puck in the net, and our special teams are exceptionally horrible and costing us, it was the difference last night. Grubauer sucks? guess what, over the last 20 games, everyone not name Mackinnon has sucked, not just him. No surprise that his numbers are down just like everyone else's right now.

This season so far Grubauer has a .909 save % some of the others behind him?

1. Lundqvist .907% - $8.5 mil per
2. Price .907% - $10.5 mil per
3. Fleury .906% $7mil per
4. Hart .905% ELC
5. Gibson .905% $6.4mil per
6. Holtby .899% $6.1mil per
7. Murray .896% $3.75mil per
8. Bobrovsky .896% $10mil per
9. Rinne .896% $5mil per
10. Dubnyk . 891% $4.33mil per

Grubauer $3.33mil per. People want to flip Grubauer for Lundqvist or Price, how does that help?

It's a bad slump just like last year. They all need to find a way out of it.

 

[the_fan]

Right. We're top of the league, or thereabouts, in 5-on-5. Bednar is very good at what he does, I think we need to can those around him - I don't know whether thats a Bednar or Sakic decision. It is embarrassing how bad our PP and PK are and missing out on a goal scored, or preventing a goal against, per game changes our record pretty significantly. We're not being blown out, these are close games that our special teams are losing for us. Bednar is still the best coach we've had in years. He's not perfect, but he is damn good.

Also I think part of the problem is, Avs still don't have a legit 2nd line. I mean they picked up solid players like Donskoi and Burakovsky, but we see how streaky they are where they can be hot for 10 games then cold for the next 10. They are not really true 2nd line players, more of complimentary players who can at times jump up and play on 2nd line. Kadri still doesnt have steady 2nd line linemates to get himself going as well. Sakic needs to trade for a legit 2nd line winger, he missed out on Hall but maybe there is someone else out there he can get

 

[S3rkie]

It's a bad slump just like last year. They all need to find a way out of it.

I think that's why people are upset though, because it's so similar to last year, when this is supposed to be a greatly improved roster. This team was supposed to take a big step towards being a true cup contender not another wildcard be stoked to just make it in team. And that includes Grubauer as not answering if he's a true number 1.

Would three years of playoffs be an improvement for this organization after the last decade of horrors? Yeah of course. But in my opinion if that's all this team is destined to accomplish, it's still a clear failure. The team has just as many question marks after what looked like an awesome summer.

 

[avs1dacup]

Graves doesn't pass the eye test either. He makes weird pinches all the time, doesn't contribute offensively at all, and looks slow.

6 goals and 10 assists isn't contributing offensively?

 

[Avsboy]

6 goals and 10 assists isn't contributing offensively?

It's Nick Holden again

 

[dahrougem2]

For those of you B****ing about recent goaltending, consider this, since December (last 20 games):

Not the top line:
Jost (not that we don't already know) - 4 points in last 20 PP points= 1 (2 point in last 10 games +/- +1)
Kadri - 7 points in the last 20 PP points= 1 (5 points in last 10 games +/- -3)
Burakovsky - 7 points in his last 20 PP points= 1 (4 points in last 10 games +/- -1)
Donskoi - 7 point in his last 18 played - PP points= 0 (1 point in last 8 games (missed last two with injury) +/- -1)
Compher - 9 points in last 20 PP points = 1 (6 points in last 10 games +/- 0)
Nichushkin - 11 points in last 20 PP points = 0 (6 points in last 10 games +/- +6)
PEB - 8 points in last 20 PP points = 0 (6 points in last 10 games +/- - 1)
Where has Matt Nieto gone? - 6 points in last 20 PP points = 0(3 points in last 10 games +/- +1)
Calvert - 11 points in last 20 games PP points = 0 (4 points in last 10 games +/- +4)
Thats 59 points through these 9 players over the last 20 games and only 4 Power Play points

On D
EJ - 3 points since December 19th (last 12 games) +/- +4 PP points =0
Z - 2 points in the last 20 games (1 point in last 10 games +/- -4) PP points= 0
Graves - 7 points in last 20 games (1 point in last 10 games +/- +6) PP points = 0
Cole - 10 points in last 20 games (5 points in last 10 games +/- +4)PP points =0
G - 15 points in last 20 games (12 points in last 10 games +/- 0) PP points =7
Makar 7 points in last 12 games (injury, +/- -6) PP points =3
Barbie 2 points in 7 games in December +/- +4 PP Points = 0

This season so far Grubauer has a .909 save % some of the others behind him?

1. Lundqvist .907% - $8.5 mil per
2. Price .907% - $10.5 mil per
3. Fleury .906% $7mil per
4. Hart .905% ELC
5. Gibson .905% $6.4mil per
6. Holtby .899% $6.1mil per
7. Murray .896% $3.75mil per
8. Bobrovsky .896% $10mil per
9. Rinne .896% $5mil per
10. Dubnyk . 891% $4.33mil per

Grubauer $3.33mil per. People want to flip Grubauer for Lundqvist or Price, how does that help?

1) Sure, some of those forwards are slumping but some of those forwards are also playing above their usual production levels. For example, guys like Kadri, Burakovsky, and Donskoi are struggling (I actually think this is more along the lines of Donskoi's usual self) but players like Nichuskin, Calvert, and Bellemare are playing at higher production levels.

2) Similarly on defence, players like Cole and Girard are playing above their usual capabilities while players like EJ and Makar look to be playing below them.

3) In terms of goaltending, there isn't a single goaltender on that list you provided that I would actually want save Carter Hart, John Gibson, or Braden Holtby and Holtby would only be for this year. So when you provide that list, it makes sense why those goaltenders are there and we have every right to be complaining about Grubauer's extreme inconsistency this season.

 

[Pokecheque]

Uh boy...

Missed the first two periods, sat down for the third just in time to watch them blow yet another lead and turn in yet another weak OT effort.

So, here's the deal.

1. This team is not built to survive mediocre-to-bad goaltending. Few teams are. But the Avs have some giant, gaping holes on defense that have been mitigated for the most part due to Cale Makar's stellar play, a much better defensive effort and makeup up front, really outstanding goaltending, and scoring coming in bunches from everywhere in light of injuries. Virtually all of that good fortune has dried up and has left the big deficits on this team exposed. I guess you ride out the goaltending--nothing more you can do--but I still think they either need to address the deficits on defense and perhaps up front as well, or just ride it out entirely and hope to hell they get hot again. But then they will have to live with the possibility of no playoffs.

2. Erik Johnson is clearly not a top-four guy. I'm beginning to wonder if he's even a bottom pairing guy. In addition to being outskated on a regular basis, he's being outmuscled. I get that there aren't any pristine options at present but they have to do something different.

3. Ryan Graves was okay as the top pairing LD for a while but now that Makar has come back to earth his flaws are very much exposed. His outlet passes are horrific--he was pinging them off skates a bunch in the third (don't know if that was happening in the other two periods) he's not suitable for that role any longer. Not sure what you do there either.

4. Special teams are not anywhere close to acceptable. I am not at all on-board with a head coaching change, but I'm said before and I'll say again that I've been dicey of Nolan Pratt. But that still feels like a knee-jerk reaction to a bigger issue--again, the defense just isn't good enough. Two top-pairing guys and four bottom-pairing guys is simply not adequate for a team calling itself a contender. Unless they're not a contender and just another bubble team. I dunno...I don't exactly know what the answer is there.

In conclusion, if this team is content with Erik Johnson and Ryan Graves as top-four defenders and Andre Burakovsky as their third-best winger, then we'll just have to all close our eyes, click our heels, cross our fingers, and hope to hell they just find another hot streak to go on. Nothing they can do about the goaltending--they're just gonna have to figure it out on their own. I'm not gonna sit here and say they need to do whatever's necessary to bolster the lineup, but I feel like SOMETHING has to be done. If they sit and wait and let this be just another transition year I think that'd be a terrible waste.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

For those of you B****ing about recent goaltending, consider this, since December (last 20 games):

Not the top line:
Jost (not that we don't already know) - 4 points in last 20 PP points= 1 (2 point in last 10 games +/- +1)
Kadri - 7 points in the last 20 PP points= 1 (5 points in last 10 games +/- -3)
Burakovsky - 7 points in his last 20 PP points= 1 (4 points in last 10 games +/- -1)
Donskoi - 7 point in his last 18 played - PP points= 0 (1 point in last 8 games (missed last two with injury) +/- -1)
Compher - 9 points in last 20 PP points = 1 (6 points in last 10 games +/- 0)
Nichushkin - 11 points in last 20 PP points = 0 (6 points in last 10 games +/- +6)
PEB - 8 points in last 20 PP points = 0 (6 points in last 10 games +/- - 1)
Where has Matt Nieto gone? - 6 points in last 20 PP points = 0(3 points in last 10 games +/- +1)
Calvert - 11 points in last 20 games PP points = 0 (4 points in last 10 games +/- +4)
Thats 59 points through these 9 players over the last 20 games and only 4 Power Play points

The top line:
Mackinnon 26 points, PP points =10
Rants 15 points , PP points =4
Landy 13, PP points =6
Thats 54 points and 20 power play points.

On D
EJ - 3 points since December 19th (last 12 games) +/- +4 PP points =0
Z - 2 points in the last 20 games (1 point in last 10 games +/- -4) PP points= 0
Graves - 7 points in last 20 games (1 point in last 10 games +/- +6) PP points = 0
Cole - 10 points in last 20 games (5 points in last 10 games +/- +4)PP points =0
G - 15 points in last 20 games (12 points in last 10 games +/- 0) PP points =7
Makar 7 points in last 12 games (injury, +/- -6) PP points =3
Barbie 2 points in 7 games in December +/- +4 PP Points = 0

Gru - 3W - 5L - 2OTL - Previous to December 9W - 5L - 2OTL
Frank - 6W - 2L - 2OTL - Previous to December 5W - 2L - 0OTL

Overall, the last 20 games, we have just not put the puck in the net, and our special teams are exceptionally horrible and costing us, it was the difference last night. Grubauer sucks? guess what, over the last 20 games, everyone not name Mackinnon has sucked, not just him. No surprise that his numbers are down just like everyone else's right now.

This season so far Grubauer has a .909 save % some of the others behind him?

1. Lundqvist .907% - $8.5 mil per
2. Price .907% - $10.5 mil per
3. Fleury .906% $7mil per
4. Hart .905% ELC
5. Gibson .905% $6.4mil per
6. Holtby .899% $6.1mil per
7. Murray .896% $3.75mil per
8. Bobrovsky .896% $10mil per
9. Rinne .896% $5mil per
10. Dubnyk . 891% $4.33mil per

Grubauer $3.33mil per. People want to flip Grubauer for Lundqvist or Price, how does that help?

It's a bad slump just like last year. They all need to find a way out of it.

Did you just say in the last 20 games the Avs can’t put the puck in the net?

Since Dec 4th (20 games) the Avalanche have the 5th most goals in the NHL.

There’s no need to just flat out lie.

 

[Hornstar]

6 goals and 10 assists isn't contributing offensively?

IMO Graves is holding Makar back. He pinched too much and makar has to stay back. If we Had a legit stay at home defenseman to let makar get more involved with the play it would be better. A five year younger ej would work. Hell even Nemeth would be better than Graves for his partner