GDT: Stares vs Aves(yes I'm bringing it back) 7PM MST

Perratrooper

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What's clear to me is we need an upgrade on both Graves and Johnson. I think we can get by with what we have offensively, but if we want to make it far we need to get two more top 4 dmen. Whether that's through upgrading on current players or straight up just trading futures to acquire a dman.
 

Foppa2118

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What's clear to me is we need an upgrade on both Graves and Johnson. I think we can get by with what we have offensively, but if we want to make it far we need to get two more top 4 dmen. Whether that's through upgrading on current players or straight up just trading futures to acquire a dman.

EJ has been great this season. He was good before his injury and has been even better since coming back.

Graves on the other hand makes a bunch of mistakes every game. He's not the problem on his own though because he's being relied upon too much. Two of Zadorov, Cole, and Graves need to play at a consistent top 4 level, and none of them have played at that level consistently this year.

If Cole or Zadorov can improve their game enough to slot Graves back into a true 3rd pairing role where he belongs, it'd help this team out tremendously. Especially on the PK.
 

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look man I’m trying anything here to break the slump!
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The Kingslayer

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Just rewatching the game now. I don't think I have ever seen Z so aggressive offensively. I liked it. Also, why is Graves constantly the guy pinching in? That should be Makar. Makar needs to do that more often. Hes better when he does it and our team is better when hes rushing.
 

missionAvs

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EJ has been great this season. He was good before his injury and has been even better since coming back.

Graves on the other hand makes a bunch of mistakes every game. He's not the problem on his own though because he's being relied upon too much. Two of Zadorov, Cole, and Graves need to play at a consistent top 4 level, and none of them have played at that level consistently this year.

If Cole or Zadorov can improve their game enough to slot Graves back into a true 3rd pairing role where he belongs, it'd help this team out tremendously. Especially on the PK.

With regards to the bolded.

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Ararana

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Just rewatching the game now. I don't think I have ever seen Z so aggressive offensively. I liked it. Also, why is Graves constantly the guy pinching in? That should be Makar. Makar needs to do that more often. Hes better when he does it and our team is better when hes rushing.

If Z netted that corner post he hit late in the game we'd all be singing the praises of our Russian overlord. That shot came out of nowhere.
 

Perratrooper

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EJ has been great this season. He was good before his injury and has been even better since coming back.

Graves on the other hand makes a bunch of mistakes every game. He's not the problem on his own though because he's being relied upon too much. Two of Zadorov, Cole, and Graves need to play at a consistent top 4 level, and none of them have played at that level consistently this year.

If Cole or Zadorov can improve their game enough to slot Graves back into a true 3rd pairing role where he belongs, it'd help this team out tremendously. Especially on the PK.

I'm not sure I can agree with your assessment of EJ. In fact, I actually yelled at my computer when EJ went on the ice against Pits in OT because I knew we'd lose if he was out there (my girlfriend as my witness). He consistently got out muscled this game and spent what felt like most of the game flailing around on his stomach which he usually saves for his 2 on 1 plays. He has flashes of him old self, but they've been few and far between. I think he's fine as a #5 right now who can move up a pair and play PK until (if ever) he gets his game back.

I agree that Graves is being over relied on and I think that is big time miss use on Bednar's part. IMO I'd rather have Zadorov out there with Makar because they gave similar floors, but Z has a much higher ceiling when on.
 

The Abusement Park

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EJ has been great this season. He was good before his injury and has been even better since coming back.

Graves on the other hand makes a bunch of mistakes every game. He's not the problem on his own though because he's being relied upon too much. Two of Zadorov, Cole, and Graves need to play at a consistent top 4 level, and none of them have played at that level consistently this year.

If Cole or Zadorov can improve their game enough to slot Graves back into a true 3rd pairing role where he belongs, it'd help this team out tremendously. Especially on the PK.

I really don't agree on EJ. The wheels are coming off and it won't be pretty over the next couple years. He's sooo slow and while he's alright defending the cycle, he's getting abused on the rush. He's turned into a bottom pairing dman.
 

Foppa2118

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With regards to the bolded.

giphy.gif

I think this narrative of EJ regressing is so engrained in people's minds, it doesn't matter how well he plays. People will continue to think it anyway. He's been by far the Avs best and most consistent defenseman this year.

Everyone else has had long stretches of really poor play. Except for Makar offensively, but he's struggled most of the year in his defensive coverage as well.
 

missionAvs

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I think this narrative of EJ regressing is so engrained in people's minds, it doesn't matter how well he plays. People will continue to think it anyway. He's been by far the Avs best and most consistent defenseman this year.

Everyone else has had long stretches of really poor play. Except for Makar offensively, but he's struggled most of the year in his defensive coverage as well.

EJ has regressed into a bottom pairing role as far as his play is concerned. The issue is that bottom pairing defenders is pretty much the whole Avs D-core save for Makar and G. Z has short spurts of really good play but is again, just a 5-6 defender.
 

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I’m quickly losing hope of this year’s team being a contender.

Maybe next season, but we don’t look ready at all. Good teams simply don’t blow this many leads and throw away points. This is awful.
Also top teams dont have that one other top team that they can never beat like the Avs have with the Stars or the Blues. Do Blues have a team that they can never beat? Or the Caps, Bruins etc.. if you're truly a top team you should be able to beat any team.
 

AegonLeConqueror

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Also top teams dont have that one other top team that they can never beat like the Avs have with the Stars or the Blues. Do Blues have a team that they can never beat? Or the Caps, Bruins etc.. if you're truly a top team you should be able to beat any team.
Well the Bruins have trouble beating us it seems...but on a more serious note, the Avs inability to consistently beat teams like the Blues is beyond frustrating
 

the_fan

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Well the Bruins have trouble beating us it seems...but on a more serious note, the Avs inability to consistently beat teams like the Blues is beyond frustrating
At least they beat the Blues once at home this year, and still have 2 more games against them, but they're done with the Stars and went winless against them.
 

The Abusement Park

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Also top teams dont have that one other top team that they can never beat like the Avs have with the Stars or the Blues. Do Blues have a team that they can never beat? Or the Caps, Bruins etc.. if you're truly a top team you should be able to beat any team.

I mean that’s just not true at all? The caps have been the best team in the league for the last like 15 years and just recently found a way to beat the pens.
 

Foppa2118

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EJ has regressed into a bottom pairing role as far as his play is concerned. The issue is that bottom pairing defenders is pretty much the whole Avs D-core save for Makar and G. Z has short spurts of really good play but is again, just a 5-6 defender.

If EJ's a bottom pairing defenseman, then the rest of the defenseman on the Avs are AHLers. Which isn't the case. Even Graves is a competent #6/7 in the NHL. He's just not played that way.

EJ has played between a #2-4 level of play pretty much all year IMO. Outside a couple poor games that were worse.
 

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If EJ's a bottom pairing defenseman, then the rest of the defenseman on the Avs are AHLers. Which isn't the case. Even Graves is a competent #6/7 in the NHL. He's just not played that way.

EJ has played between a #2-4 level of play pretty much all year IMO. Outside a couple poor games that were worse.

You're always very complimentary of EJ but I'm just not seeing it this year, and frankly most of last year as well. I sure as hell didn't see it last night. He was pushed around and skated around all night.

EJ is a bottom pairing defender and Bednar knows it, and has tried to keep his minutes limited, even though he starts the game with Girard, he's rotated through.
 
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Foppa2118

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You're always very complimentary of EJ but I'm just not seeing it this year, and frankly most of last year as well. I sure as hell didn't see it last night. He was pushed around and skated around all night.

EJ is a bottom pairing defender and Bednar knows it, and has tried to keep his minutes limited, even though he starts the game with Girard, he's rotated through.

I literally just re-watched all of EJ's shifts last night. I didn't see him pushed around or lose a physical battle once. He even knocked Benn off the puck and sent it to Jost to clear, who iced it instead, with about two minutes to go in the 3rd.

The only tough moments he had were on the PK where he was using Bellemare's shorter stick and didn't block the pass (Graves was more responsible as he was in a better spot to block the pass) his delay of game penalty (which as far as this play goes wasn't that bad as he just missed the glass on the backhand) and the tying goal where he put his stick on the ice to block the pass but it was passed over it (Girard was more at fault for leaving Dickinson open as was Grubauer for giving up the rebound).

If Bednar knows EJ's a bottom pairing defender, then why was EJ leading the team in ice time up until a week ago? He's 2nd in both overall and even strength ice time now.
 
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Pokecheque

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I literally just re-watched all of EJ's shifts last night. I didn't see him pushed around or lose a physical battle once. He even knocked Benn off the puck and sent it to Jost to clear, who iced it instead, with about two minutes to go in the 3rd

If Bednar knows EJ's a bottom pairing defender, then why was EJ leading the team in ice time up until a week ago? He's 2nd in both overall and even strength ice time now.

Agree to disagree I suppose. I'm seeing it quite a bit these days.

And he had the lowest ice time of any Avs defender last night. Even less than Cole (albeit by less than a minute). He had only a few seconds more in the previous game against Pittsburgh, and in the win against St. Louis (about the last time this team played a truly great game) he didn't even hit the 17-minute mark.

I think it's pretty clear he absolutely cannot log major minutes anymore, nor can he handle a major shutdown role. The problem right now is that there are not a ton of better options.
 

The Abusement Park

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If EJ's a bottom pairing defenseman, then the rest of the defenseman on the Avs are AHLers. Which isn't the case. Even Graves is a competent #6/7 in the NHL. He's just not played that way.

EJ has played between a #2-4 level of play pretty much all year IMO. Outside a couple poor games that were worse.

Everyone on the d core is a bottom pairing guy bar Makar and Girard.
 

missionAvs

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If EJ's a bottom pairing defenseman, then the rest of the defenseman on the Avs are AHLers. Which isn't the case. Even Graves is a competent #6/7 in the NHL. He's just not played that way.

EJ has played between a #2-4 level of play pretty much all year IMO. Outside a couple poor games that were worse.

See below. As I mentioned in my previous post, literally every defender on the Avs is a bottom pairing guy besides Makar and G. IMO, the difference between a guy like Cole and EJ is who you would call the #5 guy (EJ) and who you would call the #6 guy (Cole). EJ's regressed pretty hard and will only get worse IMO.

Everyone on the d core is a bottom pairing guy bar Makar and Girard.
 

Foppa2118

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Everyone on the d core is a bottom pairing guy bar Makar and Girard.

See below. As I mentioned in my previous post, literally every defender on the Avs is a bottom pairing guy besides Makar and G. IMO, the difference between a guy like Cole and EJ is who you would call the #5 guy (EJ) and who you would call the #6 guy (Cole). EJ's regressed pretty hard and will only get worse IMO.

I don't agree with that. Up until the recent stint of third period collapses and poor goaltending, the Avs were battling for 1st in the Central and 1st in the West. Without a bunch of key players too.

I don't think you can do that with 4 bottom pairing defenseman. Especially when Makar and Girard have struggled a lot this year defensively themselves.

If everyone else is bottom pairing guys, then so was Girard for more than half the season so far up until recently, and so was Makar defensively. So that'd be 6 guys playing at a bottom pairing level defensively, which to me is a big exaggeration.
 

Spilot23

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Zads goal? That's not a bad goal lol. If that happened to Grubauer nobody should be calling it out. A pass attempt that goes in off a stars defender and in is bad luck not a goal you fault Bishop for. If Bishop let in a goal like the first one Grubauer let in last night then yah that's a bad goal.
Funny thing is that it happened once this season when Girard tipped the puck then slowly passed through Grubs and I think people were mad on both of Girard and Grubs. If only I remembered which game it was.
 

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