Online Series: Star Wars: The Mandalorian (Part 2)

[MadDevil]

The thought of a baby Maz is kind of horrifying.

 

[Shockmaster]

I don't know, I think people have softened on the prequels over the years. There are certainly still people who hate them, but it's not as bad as the "George Lucas raped my childhood" days. Plus, let's be honest, people these days have a short attention span. It's on to the next "worst thing ever" after they've expended themselves on whatever the current "worst thing ever" is.

A big reason why people softened on the prequels was because of Clone Wars and how it expanded the Star Wars universe and lore. All the sequels did was rehash the original trilogy, but worse.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I personally hope the Mandalorian encounters Rey personally and she wows him with her Mary Sue powers

 

[Shockmaster]

 

[bleedblue1223]

I personally hope the Mandalorian encounters Rey personally and she wows him with her Mary Sue powers

Own the critics with bad writing, that'll show em!

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Own the critics with bad writing, that'll show em!

If by bad you mean amazing, then yes!

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

No one is seething angry over Jar Jar any more, either, but that doesn't mean that they want to see him in any more Star Wars. It's been even longer since Ewoks were represented in Star Wars, yet they were still missing when the heroes visited their homeworld in The Rise of Skywalker. Similarly, fans may not eventually be as angry at the sequel trilogy as they are now, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they'll welcome revisiting of characters and plot points that'll remind them of it.

I'm still seething angry over Jar Jar.

I would argue that its a bit different context though. The prequels were bad/hated for a variety of reasons, but at the end of the day they were just films that had wild tonal inconsistencies which guaranteed that no one would like them (too childish for adults, too stuffy and political for kids). They were released by George Lucas, which gave them more legitimacy/carried more weight and they were the first bad Star Wars anything not labeled a 'holiday special'. The ST actively and intentionally tried to destroy the lore of the universe on top of having wild tonal inconsistencies and being terrible films. They also had unlimited budgets that no previous GL film ever did. They were so bad an entire genre of YouTube celebrity was born from mocking them. People only really softened on the PT because the ST showed that worse was possible. You also did not have the PT stars attacking fans and critics in the press or heavy handed social pandering marketing campaigns.

The only way hatred for the ST will die down is when they are forgotten or if something actually worse were to come along under the Star Wars banner (but I cannot see how that is possible unless they make 'Dances with Porgs' or 'Jar Jar Does Dallas')

I am hopeful and optimistic that The Mandalorian will turn things around and George Lucas will able to see Stars Wars 'turn back to the light' before he inevitably passes away. That said if Mando fails it would be par for the course at this point. Every at least decent episode of that show exceeds my expectations for Disney Wars.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

People shouldn't be "mad" about entertainment for an extended period of time. If something isn't giving you the entertainment you want, you should try and focus on the stuff that actually entertains you, instead of regularly going back to the thing that makes you mad in the first place. Seems very counterproductive.

The Mandalorian for me is one of those pieces of entertainment. It had a very engaging first season and there is a lot of hope that the second season will be just as good, if not better.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Star Wars is sort of that one Entertainment piece that transcends that IMO. Fans are one of the biggest reasons it became the giant that it did, so there is much more of a connection to it than other pieces of entertainment. It's hard for people to just turn off or walk away from something that they have so much sentimental investment in.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Star Wars is sort of that one Entertainment piece that transcends that IMO. Fans are one of the biggest reasons it became the giant that it did, so there is much more of a connection to it than other pieces of entertainment. It's hard for people to just turn off or walk away from something that they have so much sentimental investment in.

I'm not talking about all of Star Wars, though. My dislike of aspects of the PT/ST doesn't keep me from enjoying the OT, and I don't think it should. And at the end of the day it is a piece of entertainment, and getting "angry" about that entertainment in my opinion is not particularly healthy.

It's the same thing with sports fandom. People can have really really unhealthy relationships with sports, too. Pretty much any brand that has become incredibly popular is subject to this. I love(d) Game of Thrones until the last couple of seasons, but despite how much DD botched the series, I am not angry about it, and I don't particularly understand the mentality of still being angry about it or having "hatred" built up because of it.

 

[Osprey]

I've stopped watching or following a lot of things when they stopped being entertaining to me, but there are a few things that I can't just walk away from because there's too much sentimental value. For me, and probably lots of people, Star Wars is one of them. Walking away from that is like walking away from your childhood... or, since this is a sports board, your favorite team. Maybe some people are able to do that, but others don't want to give up on something that's become part of their identity. When that's the case, complaining is a way to express how much you still care while also getting things out of your system and hoping that you might be heard. If no one had complained about the sequel trilogy, Kathleen Kennedy probably would've had her contract extended by now, and if Favreau and Filoni are given more responsibility in her absence, that may lead to more Star Wars content worth praising.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I've stopped watching or following a lot of things when they stopped being entertaining to me, but there are a few things that I can't just walk away from because there's too much sentimental value. For me, and probably lots of people, Star Wars is one of them. Walking away from that is like walking away from your childhood... or, since this is a sports board, your favorite team. Maybe some people are able to do that, but others don't want to give up on something that's become part of their identity. When that's the case, complaining is a way to express how much you still care while also getting things out of your system and hoping that you might be heard. If no one had complained about the sequel trilogy, Kathleen Kennedy probably would've had her contract extended by now, and if Favreau and Filoni are given more responsibility in her absence, that may lead to more Star Wars content worth praising.

You being mad years after the ST isn't making meaningful change. I'm not talking about people having reactions around the time of the release of a piece of entertainment and for a certain time afterwards, but we are going on a year since ROS came out and three years since TLJ came out. How long do you plan to harbor this anger for these movies for?

The Mandalorian is a fun Star Wars show that should have at least two solid seasons. As a Star Wars fan who regularly watches the OT on VHS, that's what I want to focus on.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I'm not talking about all of Star Wars, though. My dislike of aspects of the PT/ST doesn't keep me from enjoying the OT, and I don't think it should. And at the end of the day it is a piece of entertainment, and getting "angry" about that entertainment in my opinion is not particularly healthy.

It's the same thing with sports fandom. People can have really really unhealthy relationships with sports, too. Pretty much any brand that has become incredibly popular is subject to this. I love(d) Game of Thrones until the last couple of seasons, but despite how much DD botched the series, I am not angry about it, and I don't particularly understand the mentality of still being angry about it or having "hatred" built up because of it.

I agree it shouldn't affect your ability from liking the things you like, and I agree people can definitely take it to an unhealthy level. I agree you shouldn't get angry over stuff like this either. I know for me personally, I want quality Star Wars because it's always been my go to piece of entertainment, whether movies, shows, books, toys, or games. At different points in my life, it's been a consistent piece of entertainment for me. If Star Wars goes in a direction that I don't like, it'll be hard for me to just give it up, I'm going to keep holding on hoping that they get back to the things that made SW entertaining to me.

Mandalorian to me has done that, and we'll see what all the other shows are like.

 

[RandV]

I'm not talking about all of Star Wars, though. My dislike of aspects of the PT/ST doesn't keep me from enjoying the OT, and I don't think it should. And at the end of the day it is a piece of entertainment, and getting "angry" about that entertainment in my opinion is not particularly healthy.

It's the same thing with sports fandom. People can have really really unhealthy relationships with sports, too. Pretty much any brand that has become incredibly popular is subject to this. I love(d) Game of Thrones until the last couple of seasons, but despite how much DD botched the series, I am not angry about it, and I don't particularly understand the mentality of still being angry about it or having "hatred" built up because of it.

It kind of depends on how you want to enjoy Star Wars. If you just want to enjoy it as a movie series, then it's easy enough to write of the ST and enjoy what comes after. If you're into the whole "Expanded Universe" thing, then not so much.

When the OT ended it left such a strong impression on many that an entire industry got built out of the desire to know 'what happens next'. Books, video games, comics, etc etc. When the PT came out the movies were a huge disappointment, but it still left room for an "EU" and while personally I'm not really familiar with any of it you just have to look at how people are excited to see this Ashoka character to know it had some success.

I'm not going to go into details as I've done this before but this is where the ST dies and why I can understand people remaining upset with it. Notice how everything else Disney has provided: Rogue One, Solo, and now the highly popular Mandalorian, are all a product of the OT. While the PT and ST moves both had mixed reception, there's still time I guess but if the ST can't generate additional content like Clone Wars or Rebels then it's clearly a big step behind.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It kind of depends on how you want to enjoy Star Wars. If you just want to enjoy it as a movie series, then it's easy enough to write of the ST and enjoy what comes after. If you're into the whole "Expanded Universe" thing, then not so much.

When the OT ended it left such a strong impression on many that an entire industry got built out of the desire to know 'what happens next'. Books, video games, comics, etc etc. When the PT came out the movies were a huge disappointment, but it still left room for an "EU" and while personally I'm not really familiar with any of it you just have to look at how people are excited to see this Ashoka character to know it had some success.

I'm not going to go into details as I've done this before but this is where the ST dies and why I can understand people remaining upset with it. Notice how everything else Disney has provided: Rogue One, Solo, and now the highly popular Mandalorian, are all a product of the OT. While the PT and ST moves both had mixed reception, there's still time I guess but if the ST can't generate additional content like Clone Wars or Rebels then it's clearly a big step behind.

Regarding the second paragraph: I am not sure I agree about the Mandalorian being a "product of the OT" as you say. Yes it has elements of the OT, but I don't think the OT is the reason why it is enjoyable.

Also I still do not understand the appeal of Rogue One. Other than the fighter sequence at the end of the film, I found it a very meh experience. And Vader showing up at the end for a random badass moment felt completely unwarranted (when it came out I mentioned how I thought it would have been much better if Vader was actually a legitimate participant in the story instead of a tool for fan service).

I don't think it is a bad movie, per se. Just overrated.

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

It kind of depends on how you want to enjoy Star Wars. If you just want to enjoy it as a movie series, then it's easy enough to write of the ST and enjoy what comes after. If you're into the whole "Expanded Universe" thing, then not so much.

When the OT ended it left such a strong impression on many that an entire industry got built out of the desire to know 'what happens next'. Books, video games, comics, etc etc. When the PT came out the movies were a huge disappointment, but it still left room for an "EU" and while personally I'm not really familiar with any of it you just have to look at how people are excited to see this Ashoka character to know it had some success.

I'm not going to go into details as I've done this before but this is where the ST dies and why I can understand people remaining upset with it. Notice how everything else Disney has provided: Rogue One, Solo, and now the highly popular Mandalorian, are all a product of the OT. While the PT and ST moves both had mixed reception, there's still time I guess but if the ST can't generate additional content like Clone Wars or Rebels then it's clearly a big step behind.

I think that's a big metric for 'fan acceptance' that gets overlooked. How many people are willing to put the time and effort into writing quality fan fiction or developing original content (like art or music) based off the films? The sheer size and scope of the EU really lends itself to the cultural impact of the OT. The other side of that coin is the merchandise sales. Stars Wars, even the good ones, always made more from merch sales than the box office. Episode 1 merch cost Hasbro and Toy 'R' Us many millions in losses. The losses have been ever greater than that for Disney Wars. Hasbro took a 1.5% hit to their bottom line in 2018 because of how bad The Last Jedi flopped.

 

[RandV]

Regarding the second paragraph: I am not sure I agree about the Mandalorian being a "product of the OT" as you say. Yes it has elements of the OT, but I don't think the OT is the reason why it is enjoyable.

When I say "product" I mean the lore that establishes the story is created or inspired by the OT. Mandolorian's came later in the EU but the inspiration was Boba Fett, tThe Imperial remnant antagonists are an after effect of RotJ, of course Baby Yoda is a baby Yoda, etc etc. It has it's own original tone and style, but the playground it's built in is the OT.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

When I say "product" I mean the lore that establishes the story is created or inspired by the OT. Mandolorian's came later in the EU but the inspiration was Boba Fett, tThe Imperial remnant antagonists are an after effect of RotJ, of course Baby Yoda is a baby Yoda, etc etc. It has it's own original tone and style, but the playground it's built in is the OT.

I mean, everything that came after the OT is a "product of the OT" based on that. Rey was a Palpatine, Kylo Ren was a Solo/Leia child, the First Order is essentially a fanclub of the Empire.

The OT essentially created a genre, which we now consider the "Star Wars Franchise". Anything you see from this point traces its roots back to that trilogy in some way.

 

[Shockmaster]

When I say "product" I mean the lore that establishes the story is created or inspired by the OT. Mandolorian's came later in the EU but the inspiration was Boba Fett, tThe Imperial remnant antagonists are an after effect of RotJ, of course Baby Yoda is a baby Yoda, etc etc. It has it's own original tone and style, but the playground it's built in is the OT.

Could argue there is also lore established during the prequel era in this series as well.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Could argue there is also lore established during the prequel era in this series as well.

Yeah, the whole reason Mando is a Mando is because of the Separatists.

 

[Tawnos]

The problem with pointing to the lack of “EU” style content the ST might generate is that the trilogy was, as much as it was specifically designed to do anything, it was specifically designed to wrap things up. Particularly TRoS. Return of the Jedi had much more of “the end is really just the beginning” aspect to it. And of course, the PT wasn’t designed to end anything.

TRoS really feels like “this is the end of all things” and I think that was on purpose. I also think it was necessary, because it gives Disney some greater license to move into stories that don’t take place in this one century of the galactic history. We don’t really have anything confirmed that this will be happening, and The Mandalorian certainly isn’t outside of it, but that option is there in a bigger way. And they have to hope that the new stories, whatever they are, can generate the expanded universe interest.

 

[Shockmaster]

The problem with pointing to the lack of “EU” style content the ST might generate is that the trilogy was, as much as it was specifically designed to do anything, it was specifically designed to wrap things up. Particularly TRoS. Return of the Jedi had much more of “the end is really just the beginning” aspect to it. And of course, the PT wasn’t designed to end anything.

TRoS really feels like “this is the end of all things” and I think that was on purpose. I also think it was necessary, because it gives Disney some greater license to move into stories that don’t take place in this one century of the galactic history. We don’t really have anything confirmed that this will be happening, and The Mandalorian certainly isn’t outside of it, but that option is there in a bigger way. And they have to hope that the new stories, whatever they are, can generate the expanded universe interest.

Did the ST really do the bolded though? Because really all it did was re-tell the OT, but worse. I look at Return of the Jedi as being the end of the Skywalker Saga as far as stories that revolve around Anakin's decedents. Don't think Star Wars needs an "end of all things" as that implies there are no stories to tell outside of the Skywalkers following the OT era.

 

[Tawnos]

Did the ST really do the bolded though? Because really all it did was re-tell the OT, but worse. I look at Return of the Jedi as being the end of the Skywalker Saga as far as stories that revolve around Anakin's decedents. Don't think Star Wars needs an "end of all things" as that implies there are no stories to tell outside of the Skywalkers following the OT era.

Yes, it did. You say that RotJ ends the Skywalker Saga, which revolves around Anakin's descendants. But ask yourself this: after the ST, are there any of his descendants left? The combined final acts of Luke, Leia, and Ben serve to fully redeem the family legacy.

Star Wars doesn't need an end of all things, but the Skywalker Saga did. Those two aren't the same thing. And my point was exactly that... RotJ wasn't an "end of all things" kind of story. It left open the stories to tell following the OT. Even though Rey, Poe and Finn are all still alive at the end of the ST, it's not like we're looking for their further stories to be told the way we were with Luke, Leia and Han. Again, I think this was intentional.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm going to totally nerd out and talk about a book franchise I've read quite a bit of: Dragonlance, which is probably up there in terms of the most prolific worlds ever. There are around 200 books set in it, though only 15 or so follow the main events. The original Chronicles trilogy left readers wanting more of the main characters. The second Legends trilogy gave us more of the main characters. A standalone book and the following Fifth Age trilogy tracked the stories of some of those characters descendants, but some of the originals were still around. The fourth trilogy, the War of Souls, not only involved the passing of the last of the original characters, but deposed the main driver of the forces of evil in the story and the main driver of the forces of good "stepping down" to keep the balance (slight background: there's a pantheon of gods representing good, neutrality and evil). That last trilogy really was an "end of all things" situation. There are still some stories that follow up on it, but there isn't as much material coming as their used to be. Because the main authors pretty much ended the story.

What Star Wars has the Dragonlance really doesn't is room to build a story in a different era, that spawns its own extended stories and possibly shows and movies. But they're not married to the ST to do it, at this point. That's a good thing, IMO.

 

[RandV]

The problem with pointing to the lack of “EU” style content the ST might generate is that the trilogy was, as much as it was specifically designed to do anything, it was specifically designed to wrap things up. Particularly TRoS. Return of the Jedi had much more of “the end is really just the beginning” aspect to it. And of course, the PT wasn’t designed to end anything.

TRoS really feels like “this is the end of all things” and I think that was on purpose. I also think it was necessary, because it gives Disney some greater license to move into stories that don’t take place in this one century of the galactic history. We don’t really have anything confirmed that this will be happening, and The Mandalorian certainly isn’t outside of it, but that option is there in a bigger way. And they have to hope that the new stories, whatever they are, can generate the expanded universe interest.

That's an argument I could buy, but let's be realistic here there was no coherent plan to accomplish any of this through first two movies and it really only happened when JJ Abrams decided to bring Palpatine back on a whim for the last movie. That's what it accomplishes in the end but it's about the shittiest way you could do it.

Also remember that when Disney bought Star Wars they had a much more aggressive plan for releasing movies, making it a bit more like the MCU with the idea being an annual release alternating between official 'episode' titles with a fillers like Rogue One/Solo/Kenobi/etc etc. I am extremely doubtful that they came into this with the Force Awakens planning to 'end' the Skywalker saga so they could move on.