Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[CokenoPepsi]

So I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, I love the OT enough but other then that I think the franchise on the whole is very mediocre.

But just thinking right now have big a screw up the ST has been and it is a shame how they really rushed it with clearly no plan.

You had one chance to bring the OT cast together and you blew it I mean I get the whole "new star wars for new generation" but can't you do both? If you had to tell the same story of Rebels vs Empire at least show how that came to be again.

Force Awakens should have been about Luke teaching the new Jedi and Kylo's fall that sounds much more interesting to me and hell you don't even need to have that be the entire movie I bet you could fit that all in 30 mins along with the Han/Leia break up if you wanted.

Instead you had JJ retell the same story Jedi vs Sith (I know they aren't sith but same thing) and Rebels vs Empire then the couple interesting things he did set up you had the new guy come in and decide they were stupid so he closed them only for JJ to come back and who will probably retcon the explanations of the last film.

*sigh*

 

[x Tame Impala]

So I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, I love the OT enough but other then that I think the franchise on the whole is very mediocre.

But just thinking right now have big a screw up the ST has been and it is a shame how they really rushed it with clearly no plan.

You had one chance to bring the OT cast together and you blew it I mean I get the whole "new star wars for new generation" but can't you do both? If you had to tell the same story of Rebels vs Empire at least show how that came to be again.

Force Awakens should have been about Luke teaching the new Jedi and Kylo's fall that sounds much more interesting to me and hell you don't even need to have that be the entire movie I bet you could fit that all in 30 mins along with the Han/Leia break up if you wanted.

Instead you had JJ retell the same story Jedi vs Sith (I know they aren't sith but same thing) and Rebels vs Empire then the couple interesting things he did set up you had the new guy come in and decide they were stupid so he closed them only for JJ to come back and who will probably retcon the explanations of the last film.

*sigh*

I think a lot that stems from the Star Wars franchise being bought up by a massive entertainment corporation. Many decisions so far seem to have big traces of being done to maximize sales at the box office at the expense of making a truly compelling/great movie.

I know many people did like TFA and TLJ and they’ve made a lot of money so Disney must be doing something right. However I look at things like TFA having an extraordinary amount of similarities to ANH and all three of these movies in the sequel trilogy having, in my humble opinion, absolutely unnecessary returns of original trilogy characters as major plot devices as huge mistakes.

Disney could have done something a lot more adventurous but they went with the safe route to maximize sales. What we’re left with is a trilogy saga that is at its best just good enough to be good, but never truly great or memorable. And that’s clearly fine with some people. I personally have not liked the direction the decided to go with for this franchise and I think the corporatization of these movies is the main cause.

 

[Osprey]

I know many people did like TFA and TLJ and they’ve made a lot of money so Disney must be doing something right. However I look at things like TFA having an extraordinary amount of similarities to ANH and all three of these movies in the sequel trilogy having, in my humble opinion, absolutely unnecessary returns of original trilogy characters as major plot devices as huge mistakes.

Disney could have done something a lot more adventurous but they went with the safe route to maximize sales. What we’re left with is a trilogy saga that is at its best just good enough to be good, but never truly great or memorable. And that’s clearly fine with some people. I personally have not liked the direction the decided to go with for this franchise and I think the corporatization of these movies is the main cause.

I won't give anything away, but I'll spoiler this just in case:

Spoiler

If the newest plot leaks are accurate, you may not be any happier with Episode 9. The similarities to the original trilogy will continue and a retconning of the last two films will seemingly be in effect. Hopefully, the leaks aren't accurate, but I'm afraid that they will be.

 

[Tawnos]

I think a lot that stems from the Star Wars franchise being bought up by a massive entertainment corporation. Many decisions so far seem to have big traces of being done to maximize sales at the box office at the expense of making a truly compelling/great movie.

I know many people did like TFA and TLJ and they’ve made a lot of money so Disney must be doing something right. However I look at things like TFA having an extraordinary amount of similarities to ANH and all three of these movies in the sequel trilogy having, in my humble opinion, absolutely unnecessary returns of original trilogy characters as major plot devices as huge mistakes.

Disney could have done something a lot more adventurous but they went with the safe route to maximize sales. What we’re left with is a trilogy saga that is at its best just good enough to be good, but never truly great or memorable. And that’s clearly fine with some people. I personally have not liked the direction the decided to go with for this franchise and I think the corporatization of these movies is the main cause.

I think some of this is age perspective too. I ask my 8 year old nephew who his favorite Star Wars character is and he says Poe Dameron. I ask my 5 year old niece who her favorite Star Wars character is and she says Rey.

There are plenty of people who were kids when the PT was coming out who have no problem with Jar Jar.

These movies are still memorable to children. I would say that overall, the OT was more memorable for adults than anything released since, but despite my love of Star Wars as an adult, I don’t really think I’m the target audience.

And I also think the artistic value of Star Wars as something deep and meaningful is way overstated.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Eh, it's boring but I wouldn't say it's worse than the prequels.

It's telling that the scens that received the most love from what i could tell was the final vadar scene, which had dick all to do with the movie.

Very RotJ

I would rather watch the PT then Rogue One, despite how bad AotC got. The only thing Rogue One had going for it was the visuals, its fan services and contradictions with the OT is nauseating

 

[RandV]

I think some of this is age perspective too. I ask my 8 year old nephew who his favorite Star Wars character is and he says Poe Dameron. I ask my 5 year old niece who her favorite Star Wars character is and she says Rey.

There are plenty of people who were kids when the PT was coming out who have no problem with Jar Jar.

These movies are still memorable to children. I would say that overall, the OT was more memorable for adults than anything released since, but despite my love of Star Wars as an adult, I don’t really think I’m the target audience.

And I also think the artistic value of Star Wars as something deep and meaningful is way overstated.

I feel like this type opinion is a combination of missing the point and selling Star Wars short. So the OT doesn't have the "artistic value" of say The Godfather or maybe a more comparable one Blade Runner, but that's not really the point. Rather what it did have was the charm and imagination to inspire a cultural phenomenon that's spanned decades. Sure a movie buff could put A New Hope and Blade Runner up side by side and talk about how Blade Runner destroys Star Wars, but Blade Runner didn't inspire decades of culture, toys, books, video games, TV series, etc etc. And looking at other properties that sacrifice artistic value for entertainment and mass appeal none of those did this either. Probably the only property that's on par with the Star Wars OT in this regard is Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

I do get what you mean with the kids though, that's kind of always been the target audience for Star Wars and they may not see things the same way as the older OT crowd. Still though I don't really think that lets Disney off the hook with the new trilogy, they should have been able to create something that would make children both child and adult happy, like they've done with the MCU.

 

[Tawnos]

I feel like this type opinion is a combination of missing the point and selling Star Wars short. So the OT doesn't have the "artistic value" of say The Godfather or maybe a more comparable one Blade Runner, but that's not really the point. Rather what it did have was the charm and imagination to inspire a cultural phenomenon that's spanned decades. Sure a movie buff could put A New Hope and Blade Runner up side by side and talk about how Blade Runner destroys Star Wars, but Blade Runner didn't inspire decades of culture, toys, books, video games, TV series, etc etc. And looking at other properties that sacrifice artistic value for entertainment and mass appeal none of those did this either. Probably the only property that's on par with the Star Wars OT in this regard is Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

I do get what you mean with the kids though, that's kind of always been the target audience for Star Wars and they may not see things the same way as the older OT crowd. Still though I don't really think that lets Disney off the hook with the new trilogy, they should have been able to create something that would make children both child and adult happy, like they've done with the MCU.

I said that because adults often try to analyze new Star Wars movies as if they are SUPPOSED to be on the same level as movies that are more serious artistically. Expectations and perception play such a large role in how one approaches these things.

The MCU doesn’t suffer from this phenomenon because it never had a huge part of its fan base take it seriously as kids with kid sensibilities and then try to take new material seriously as adults with adult sensibilities.

 

[kingsfan28]

So I'm not a huge Star Wars fan, I love the OT enough but other then that I think the franchise on the whole is very mediocre.

But just thinking right now have big a screw up the ST has been and it is a shame how they really rushed it with clearly no plan.

You had one chance to bring the OT cast together and you blew it I mean I get the whole "new star wars for new generation" but can't you do both? If you had to tell the same story of Rebels vs Empire at least show how that came to be again.

Force Awakens should have been about Luke teaching the new Jedi and Kylo's fall that sounds much more interesting to me and hell you don't even need to have that be the entire movie I bet you could fit that all in 30 mins along with the Han/Leia break up if you wanted.

Instead you had JJ retell the same story Jedi vs Sith (I know they aren't sith but same thing) and Rebels vs Empire then the couple interesting things he did set up you had the new guy come in and decide they were stupid so he closed them only for JJ to come back and who will probably retcon the explanations of the last film.

*sigh*

How would you do that? What, de-age them 20 years and show them fighting and getting divorced, having a bitter custady fight over Ben,then flash forward to evil Kylo reflecting on the break up and blaming them ? Kramer vs Kramer in space is what you'd have. Kylo's fall was already told...in the prequels, and his name was Anakin in those movies.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Saying SW is meant or designed for kids is always misleading. Sure, the toys and stuff outside of the movies are meant for kids, but watch the original, there is no way that was a kids movie. They made it more kid friendly, but it was never intended to be a kid movie. It's an adult trilogy that also appeals to kids. Same as the MCU.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Some people simply take Star Wars too seriously.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Some people simply take Star Wars too seriously.

Absolutely, but that's why it's also worth as much as it is. If adults didnt go crazy for it, Disney wouldn't have paid what they did for it. That's also why I hate when people with Disney or Lucas throw out the kid line. Only reason Mavel, SW, and the Disney movies break a billion, is because of the adults going.

But, yes, even if they make a terrible movie, it should never affect your life like it does for some.

 

[johnjm22]

I just watched it. For anyone else:



I set it to start at the throne room scene analysis, but you may care to put it at the beginning if you want to also see them analyze Mission Impossible: Fallout.

A lot of people said that was the best scene in the movie. If that's the best scene, it just goes to show how bad the rest of the movie is.

I think it's a microcosm of the whole film. The scene is lazy, messy and careless, just like the script.

 

[RandV]

I said that because adults often try to analyze new Star Wars movies as if they are SUPPOSED to be on the same level as movies that are more serious artistically. Expectations and perception play such a large role in how one approaches these things.

The MCU doesn’t suffer from this phenomenon because it never had a huge part of its fan base take it seriously as kids with kid sensibilities and then try to take new material seriously as adults with adult sensibilities.

Yeah no problem, that was kind of a general statement as you'll run into a number of people who don't really get that concept with the Star Wars OT.

And the MCU is kind of a weird one for me to place, because it's just a juggernaut that never stops. Normally popular these massive cultural phenoms like LOTR/Star Wars/Harry Potter hit the show ends (Star Wars came back but looking at the long break after the OT here) and the fandom/spin offs/copy cats take off from there to keep it alive. The MCU has never really had this effect because for 10+years running and with no signs of stopping they basically just hook it to our veins and it never shuts off.

 

[Osprey]

I feel like this type opinion is a combination of missing the point and selling Star Wars short. So the OT doesn't have the "artistic value" of say The Godfather or maybe a more comparable one Blade Runner, but that's not really the point. Rather what it did have was the charm and imagination to inspire a cultural phenomenon that's spanned decades. Sure a movie buff could put A New Hope and Blade Runner up side by side and talk about how Blade Runner destroys Star Wars, but Blade Runner didn't inspire decades of culture, toys, books, video games, TV series, etc etc. And looking at other properties that sacrifice artistic value for entertainment and mass appeal none of those did this either. Probably the only property that's on par with the Star Wars OT in this regard is Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

I think that there's artistic value in sparking imagination. Good art tends to make you think, after all. It doesn't have to have a meaning or message to do that. You can simply think about what's occurring in the art and imagine what it'd be like to be in the world depicted by it. A lot of really good art has no real meaning and exists mainly to be pleasing and stimulate the imagination. For example, take picturesque paintings, which are like windows to other places or worlds, usually ones that we like to dream about being in. An escapist film like Star Wars (i.e. a window to "a galaxy far, far away") is hardly different, IMO.

 

[Osprey]

Some people simply take Star Wars too seriously.

Taking it more seriously than you doesn't mean taking it too seriously. You were pretty critical of the final season of Game of Thrones. To someone who takes GoT less seriously, you probably appeared to take it too seriously. If you tend to be more critical of GoT than Star Wars, that's fine, but there are no doubt others who are the other way around, which is also fine. We shouldn't be judgmental of others because they take a fantasy world more seriously than we do, especially when it's highly likely that we take a different fantasy world more seriously than many, as well.

Besides, this is like saying that people love Star Wars too much. Say that people love a certain beverage, but the maker slightly changes the taste, causing them to complain. Would you chastise them for loving the original so much that they can't appreciate that it still tastes pretty good? If only they didn't love the original taste so much, they would like the new taste better, right? That's the gist of it. The fact that people take something like Star Wars (or GoT or a beverage) so seriously is a good thing because it shows how much they love it and have high standards for it. Something that no one takes seriously is something that no one loves.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah no problem, that was kind of a general statement as you'll run into a number of people who don't really get that concept with the Star Wars OT.

And the MCU is kind of a weird one for me to place, because it's just a juggernaut that never stops. Normally popular these massive cultural phenoms like LOTR/Star Wars/Harry Potter hit the show ends (Star Wars came back but looking at the long break after the OT here) and the fandom/spin offs/copy cats take off from there to keep it alive. The MCU has never really had this effect because for 10+years running and with no signs of stopping they basically just hook it to our veins and it never shuts off.

I’m not convinced that phase 4 is going to be anything like what came before in terms of revenue but that’s not for this thread.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Taking it more seriously than you doesn't mean taking it too seriously. You were pretty critical of the final season of Game of Thrones. To someone who takes GoT less seriously, you probably appeared to take it too seriously. If you tend to be more critical of GoT than Star Wars, that's fine, but there are no doubt others who are the other way around, which is also fine. We shouldn't be judgmental of others because they take a fantasy world more seriously than we do, especially when it's highly likely that we take a different fantasy world more seriously than many, as well.

You are assuming by "take X too seriously" I mean "be critical of X". I criticized GoT for a short time, had discussions with people, and since then have pretty much let it go. I think that some people, with both GoT and Star Wars (or in nerd/geek culture in general), simply cannot seem to let things go and let negative aspects of something they love just completely change their outlook in an overtly negative way. You go on the r/freefolk subreddit and people are constantly ragging on D&D and blaming them for anything and everything that may or may not be wrong with Game of Thrones. Like, I completely lost it at the twist in the penultimate episode, but at some point I think you need to find something that gives you joy other than just hating on something you used to enjoy in perpetuity.

Besides, this is like saying that people love Star Wars too much. Say that people love a certain beverage, but the maker slightly changes the taste, causing them to complain. Would you chastise them for loving the original so much that they can't appreciate that it still tastes pretty good? If only they didn't love the original taste so much, they would like the new taste better, right? That's the gist of it. The fact that people take something like Star Wars (or GoT or beverage) so seriously is a good thing because it shows how much they love it and have high standards for it. Something that no one takes seriously is something that no one loves.

Like I said before, you appear to be assuming the wrong thing with my statement. I have stated before that it is totally valid for people to dislike, or even hate TLJ, even if I disagree with them.

 

[RandV]

A lot of people said that was the best scene in the movie. If that's the best scene, it just goes to show how bad the rest of the movie is.

I think it's a microcosm of the whole film. The scene is lazy, messy and careless, just like the script.

I think that touches on a good Star Wars geek topic that I've been thinking of recently, that highlights the problem of passing creative property over to different minds. Namely it's a question that Lucas never really answered (and not sure if the EU stuff ever expanded on it): what happens if a regular person picks up a lightsaber, or what happens if a martial arts master uses one? Abrams did this one he had Fin pick it up and try to fight a wounded Kylo, followed by Rei who was more relying on martial ability at this point than the force, and Johnson is doing it to here with this big throne room fight scene - I'm assuming the guards aren't force users but just melee trained and equipped.

The problem is that this question exists based on what we see the actors do on screen, like the original Obiwan-Vader fight wasn't that visually impressive, but doesn't really mesh with the mythology of what the Jedi are supposed to be capable of. Not only are they capable of feats of great speed & strength, think of their ability to not only block but accurately deflect repeated blaster fire. As we saw in ANH from Luke's brief training on the Falcon, it's not about any sort of technique or skill but rather letting go and letting the "force" flow through and guide you.

I wouldn't really call it a 'problem' but part of the issue is it's never really spelled out, as in Lucas movies it's always force vs force when it comes to lightsaber use. I think the only exception was in #3 against that android general but he robotic precision and overwhelming force. But just in general if you put this precognitive ability together with the end result being able to accurately deflect laser bolts then it doesn't come off on camera but a Jedi should be able to destroy any non-force user, even if they're blind folded on one arm and one leg and fighting a lightchuck wielding Bruce Lee.

So I guess what I'm saying is with George Lucas these things were obvious so he never felt the need to spell it out but with Abrams and Johnson they never thought that deeply about it and took liberties that left some fans feeling something was wrong and others not noticing anything and lots of ensuing internet arguments.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Getting inpatient for a trailer or teaser. Let's hope this, The Mandalorian and the EA Star Wars games are all a hit this holiday season. If not I'm going to need a break from this franchise till they get their shit right.

 

[MadDevil]

Getting inpatient for a trailer or teaser. Let's hope this, The Mandalorian and the EA Star Wars games are all a hit this holiday season. If not I'm going to need a break from this franchise till they get their **** right.

I'm actually more excited for The Mandalorian and TCW than I am for Episode IX.

 

[NyQuil]

Some people simply take Star Wars too seriously.

Agreed.

But I'm not going to use that as an excuse.

I like plenty of children's movies as an adult that are extremely well done.

At the same time, I'm not going to sign petitions or rage on the internet because a movie didn't meet a quality standard.

 

[NyQuil]

I think some of this is age perspective too. I ask my 8 year old nephew who his favorite Star Wars character is and he says Poe Dameron. I ask my 5 year old niece who her favorite Star Wars character is and she says Rey.

My ten year old niece is a Star Wars nut and she loves Kylo and Rey.

She likes all Star Wars but her favourite characters are from the new series. So good for them.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, if you ask kids now what they prefer, a lot of then will say the sequel, same as it was when the prequels were released, the difference is now, the new trilogy just isn't making as many super fans out of the kids like Star Wars has in the past.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

So I guess what I'm saying is with George Lucas these things were obvious so he never felt the need to spell it out but with Abrams and Johnson they never thought that deeply about it and took liberties that left some fans feeling something was wrong and others not noticing anything and lots of ensuing internet arguments.

I think George Lucas doesn't make things obvious, considering there isn't any true set "choreography" or "theme" that connects all the fights together.

And what liberties are you talking about?

Yeah, if you ask kids now what they prefer, a lot of then will say the sequel, same as it was when the prequels were released, the difference is now, the new trilogy just isn't making as many super fans out of the kids like Star Wars has in the past.

How can you possibly even determine that?

 

[bleedblue1223]

How can you possibly even determine that?

Toy sales are down. Kids currently are way more into Marvel, at least the ones that I interact with.

A lot of the top toys that they put out are marketed and priced at a level for the adult audience.