TSN: Standings projection: Leafs ranked 4th in Atlantic

[Gobias Industries]

The Atlantic.

That was easy.

Yep, you're right, the Northeast has been vastly superior to the Central in recent years.

That was the point you were making right?

BTW, Atlantic vs. Central:

2011: ATL - 91.8 vs. CEN - 93.6
2012: ATL - 100.2 vs. CEN -96.2
2013: ATL - 56 vs. CEN - 57.8

 

[Mess]

There was several years of development between Tlusty leaving here and last year with Carolina. Besides that, it was a poor trade anyways. I certainly wasnt happy to see him go.

It was really only to make the point that players in different situations produce differently.

MacArthur was a crappy Atlanta Thrasher cut loose and signed by Toronto as a UFA to become a productive 2nd liner 21-41- 62 points. When JVR was acquired it meant Clarke was demoted to the 3rd line his role reduced.. Now in Ottawa he is projected to start on the 2nd line with Turis and perhaps even Ryan on the other side..

That switch in teams and depth chart change could see Mac return to his former Leaf production. Ditto for Grabs who replaces the departed Mike Ribeiro on the Caps 2nd line and with PP time can easily increase his production from his Leafs this past season. Bolland has replace Grabs on the Leafs but will he out produce him this season?

 

[Garbs]

Yep, you're right, the Northeast has been vastly superior to the Central in recent years.

That was the point you were making right?

That there are better teams in the East?

Yes, that was my point.

 

[Gobias Industries]

That there are better teams in the East?

Yes, that was my point.

Vastly superior I think was your wording, and it was in the context of the division.

Anyway, if I were Detroit, I'd welcome the change.

 

[Mowerman]

It was really only to make the point that players in different situations produce differently.

MacArthur was a crappy Atlanta Thrasher cut loose and signed by Toronto as a UFA to become a productive 2nd liner 21-41- 62 points. When JVR was acquired it meant Clarke was demoted to the 3rd line his role reduced.. Now in Ottawa he is projected to start on the 2nd line with Turis and perhaps even Ryan on the other side..

That switch in teams and depth chart change could see Mac return to his former Leaf production. Ditto for Grabs who replaces the departed Mike Ribeiro on the Caps 2nd line and with PP time can easily increase his production from his Leafs this past season. Bolland has replace Grabs on the Leafs but will he out produce him this season?

MacArthur can put up respectable points, but he doesn't excel at any particular aspect of the game and disappears for ridiculous stretches of time throughout the course of a season. Not exactly a brilliant secondary scoring asset for a contending team.

 

[Eyedea]

Yeah, Canucks and Blackhawks fans were really heartbroken to see Raymond and Bolland go...

And yeah, Grabo, Mac and to a lesser extent Frattin are crappy third liners. They'll probably do much better on the 2nd-line scoring roles they're more suited for.

Canucks would really like Raymond at the cap hit he's at right now. Frattin and MacArthur are also more suitable for 3rd line roles.

I agree on Ryan..

He had 4 straight 30+ goals seasons prior to the lockout year. With Spezza as his center and Karlsson joining offense and with the new PP time he could score 40+ goals this year..

In fact Spezza with Ryan has the potential to score more goals than Kessel with Bozak in comparison.

I don't doubt that he has the potential to score 40 goals, but he was in a position to succeed with Getzlaf and Perry when he was with Anaheim and never managed to take that next step.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I was ready to come in here and throw a hissy fit, then I remember the realignment. 4/8 isn't so bad.

 

[Mess]

Yep, you're right, the Northeast has been vastly superior to the Central in recent years.

That was the point you were making right?

BTW, Atlantic vs. Central:

2011: ATL - 91.8 vs. CEN - 93.6
2012: ATL - 100.2 vs. CEN -96.2
2013: ATL - 56 vs. CEN - 57.8

Detroit's record verse the east

2011: East = 12-4-2 & NE: 6-0-0
2012: East = 10-7-1 & NE: 4-2-0
2013 : N/A no inter-conference games.

Detroit has feasted on the East and Leafs division in the recent past. Now that they get to play the East more often, like you, I don't see why they should suddenly struggle.

 

[Gobias Industries]

Detroit's record verse the east

2011: East = 12-4-2 & NE: 6-0-0
2012: East = 10-7-1 & NE: 4-2-0
2013 : N/A no inter-conference games.

Detroit has feasted on the East and Leafs division in the recent past. Now that they get to play the East more often, I don't see why they should suddenly struggle.

Exactly.

I don't even care if you consider the realignment negligible to the success of the Wings, but the East is not "vastly superior" by any stretch, and leaving the old Central division is a good move.

 

[Pi]

Detroit's record verse the east

2011: East = 12-4-2 & NE: 6-0-0
2012: East = 10-7-1 & NE: 4-2-0
2013 : N/A no inter-conference games.

Detroit has feasted on the East and Leafs division in the recent past. Now that they get to play the East more often, I don't see why they should suddenly struggle.

You can't really count past results in a new year.

We played well against Ottawa last year...it doesn't mean that will continue forever. We could just as easily lose all games to Ottawa and win all games against Boston.

 

[zeke]

What was Tlusty to the Leafs compared to what he was to Carolina last year?

He outscored Kessel 23 goals to 20 playing with better players.

Mac and Grabs were 3rd liners on last years Leafs and replaced by 3rd liners Bolland and Raymond in similar roles. However on their new teams its expected that they will play higher on the depth chart and thus the potential for more production.

crappy depth players on the crappy Leafs become valuable secondary scorers on contenders.

valuable secondary scores on contenders become crappy depth players on the crappy Leafs.

it's bizarre, I tell you.

 

[Mess]

Exactly.

I don't even care if you consider the realignment negligible to the success of the Wings, but the East is not "vastly superior" by any stretch, and leaving the old Central division is a good move.

3 of the last 4 Stanley Cup winners have come from the Western Conference, so the East wouldn't be considered the superior conference to me when the Champs are crowned in the West.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

crappy depth players on the crappy Leafs become valuable secondary scorers on contenders.

valuable secondary scores on contenders become crappy depth players on the crappy Leafs.

it's bizarre, I tell you.

Goals aren't everything, Wins are. John Mitchell scored 10 goals during a shortened season for a crappy Avalanche team. He'd be a 13th forward on a playoff team. You already know these things but I feel like reiterating it.

 

[Garbs]

Detroit's record verse the east

2011: East = 12-4-2 & NE: 6-0-0
2012: East = 10-7-1 & NE: 4-2-0
2013 : N/A no inter-conference games.

Detroit has feasted on the East and Leafs division in the recent past. Now that they get to play the East more often, like you, I don't see why they should suddenly struggle.

And here I thought we were getting the 2013 version of the Detroit Red Wings. Not the team that still had Nicklas Lidstrom.

 

[Gobias Industries]

And here I thought we were getting the 2013 version of the Detroit Red Wings. Not the team that still had Nicklas Lidstrom.

If you keep moving the posts, pretty soon they'll be off the field...

 

[Mess]

crappy depth players on the crappy Leafs become valuable secondary scorers on contenders.

valuable secondary scores on contenders become crappy depth players on the crappy Leafs.

it's bizarre, I tell you.

Better teammates I tell you. Makes all the difference in the World.

Who do you predict will score more points this season Grabovski or Bolland or MacArthur verses Raymond?

If you pick the former Leafs then you will be arguing against yourself.

 

[zeke]

Detroit's record verse the east

2011: East = 12-4-2 & NE: 6-0-0
2012: East = 10-7-1 & NE: 4-2-0
2013 : N/A no inter-conference games.

Detroit has feasted on the East and Leafs division in the recent past. Now that they get to play the East more often, like you, I don't see why they should suddenly struggle.

oh, mess, you and your selective stats.

Detroit 2012

Vs. West: 1.27ppg
Vs. East: 1.17ppg

Detroit 2011

Vs. West: 1.22ppg
vs. East: 1.44ppg

Detroit 2010

Vs. West: 1.27ppg
Vs. East: 1.17ppg

3yrs:

Vs. West: 1.25ppg
Vs. East: 1.26ppg


In 2 of the last 3yrs that the conferences have played each other, Detroit has actually done WORSE against the East than against the West.

Over those 3yrs combined, they've performed near identically against both conferences.


Why can't you ever do an honest statistical breakdown? Why is it always misleading spin with you?

 

[zeke]

Better teammates I tell you. Makes all the difference in the World.

Who do you predict will score more points this season Grabovski or Bolland or MacArthur verses Raymond?

If you pick the former Leafs then you will be arguing against yourself.

better teammates?

didn't you always tell us that Leafs' stats were inflated because "somebody has to score on a bad team"?

 

[Garbs]

If you keep moving the posts, pretty soon they'll be off the field...

1. I think the Atlantic has better teams than the Central.
2. I think the East has better teams than the West.
3. I think the 2013 Red Wings are a ****tier team than previous incarnations.

All three of those beliefs can coexist alongside one another. There is no moving post.

 

[Gobias Industries]

1. I think the Atlantic has better teams than the Central.
2. I think the East has better teams than the West.
3. I think the 2013 Red Wings are a ****tier team than previous incarnations.

All three of those beliefs can coexist alongside one another. There is no moving post.

1. Sure
2. Disagree
3. Sure

But your initial point was Metropolitan vs. Central, where'd that belief go?

Anyway, you think if we started an East vs. West poll, or asked GMs who was better, the East would win?

 

[Eyedea]

Better teammates I tell you. Makes all the difference in the World.

Who do you predict will score more points this season Grabovski or Bolland or MacArthur verses Raymond?

If you pick the former Leafs then you will be arguing against yourself.

That's not really furthering your point though. If Grabovski and MacArthur don't outscore Bolland/Raymond then they've failed. They're being put into a position to succeed whereas Bolland and Raymond are being put into a position to prove they're defensively apt. The ones coming in will be trusted to shutdown the opposition, the ones going out will be trusted to score on the opposition.

Besides all this, I have Grabovski in my fantasy pool. If he fails, I'll be mad.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Canucks would really like Raymond at the cap hit he's at right now. Frattin and MacArthur are also more suitable for 3rd line roles.

Not really. MacArthur isn't much of a checker or grinder. He's more suited to a scoring role. Frattin forechecks hard and is quicker, so he'd be fine on a third line, but he's not really that great in his own zone. Both would be fine on a scoring 3rd line, but the Leafs usually insist on a checking 3rd line given tough defensive assignments, and that's not a role Mac or Frattin excel at.

If you take a look at the Canucks board, I doubt there are many people posting about how much they miss Raymond.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It was really only to make the point that players in different situations produce differently.

MacArthur was a crappy Atlanta Thrasher cut loose and signed by Toronto as a UFA to become a productive 2nd liner 21-41- 62 points. When JVR was acquired it meant Clarke was demoted to the 3rd line his role reduced.. Now in Ottawa he is projected to start on the 2nd line with Turis and perhaps even Ryan on the other side..

That switch in teams and depth chart change could see Mac return to his former Leaf production. Ditto for Grabs who replaces the departed Mike Ribeiro on the Caps 2nd line and with PP time can easily increase his production from his Leafs this past season. Bolland has replace Grabs on the Leafs but will he out produce him this season?

Would we not logically expect Grabovski's production to be increased regardless, given the vast majority of his statistical body of work suggests that's the player he is? It's precisely why some of us advised against those who suggested wisdom at shipping him out based on the minority of his career. I've never been completely sold on him and felt he was overpaid by $1 M but I'm equally not sold on declaring it a great move out of the box.

 

[zeke]

Leafs 2012:

vs. East: 0.92ppg
vs. West: 1.17ppg

Leafs 2011:

vs. East: 1.03ppg
vs. West: 1.06ppg

Leafs 2010:

vs. East: 0.98ppg
vs. West: 0.61ppg

3yrs:

Vs. East: 0.98ppg
Vs. West: 0.94ppg


And in fact, in 2 of the last 3yrs the conferences have played, it's the LEAFS who have done BETTER against the west than they have agianst the east.

of course, over the 3 years, much like the Wings, the Leafs did just as well vs. both conferences.

which isn't surprising, since both conferences are nearly identical in quality overall.

 

[Garbs]

1. Sure
2. Disagree
3. Sure

But your initial point was Metropolitan vs. Central, where'd that belief go?

Anyway, you think if we started an East vs. West poll, or asked GMs who was better, the East would win?

Depends on the year.

I'd much rather compete in the West this year.