Stamkos vs Tavares

[authentic]

Tavares better defensively? hahah that's funny.

Stamkos is out producing him also.

Of course it doesn't make sense if you're a leafs fan.

Strange then how Tavares came 8th and 26th in Selke voting the past two seasons and Stamkos didn't have a single vote.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It’s a higher scoring year in which he ranks lower in league-wide scoring than he did last year and he’s accumulating most of his points on an absolutely deadly PP where he isn’t the key cog. And all of the other stats suggest he is a marginally less effective 3-zone player than he was in previous years.

Funny how the high scoring year thing doesn't apply to Tavares whenever Leaf fans want to crow about him "having a career year" and how he's finally blossoming after he left NY.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Funny how the high scoring year thing doesn't apply to Tavares whenever Leaf fans want to crow about him "having a career year" and how he's finally blossoming after he left NY.

It gets conveniently forgotten when talking about pretty much every player’s offensive performance this season. That doesn’t mean it should be.

 

[authentic]

Being on pace for almost 100 points for the first time since he hit 95 or whatever his career high is isn't "showing up in the stats"?

95, but you're not considering that scoring is up a fair bit this season. He was 12th in points and 14th in points per game last season and is currently 13th and 16th playing on the most stacked team and powerplay in the league. His goal scoring has massively improved though.

 

[authentic]

Funny how the high scoring year thing doesn't apply to Tavares whenever Leaf fans want to crow about him "having a career year" and how he's finally blossoming after he left NY.

He's not having a career year, he's not as good as he was at his peak.

 

[PucksOnNet]

Funny how the high scoring year thing doesn't apply to Tavares whenever Leaf fans want to crow about him "having a career year" and how he's finally blossoming after he left NY.

He's one goal away from tying his career-high with 15 games left to go. He's certainly having the best goal scoring season of his career thus far.

 

[Sky04]

52 of Stamkos’ 79 points have come with Kucherov on the ice. (66%)

Your eye test is so useless that it leads you to come to conclusions like “Stamkos is not even playing with Kucherov” and then you try and condescend me by comparing me to DBF because I use stats.

Yikes.

Thanks Dom.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Funny how the high scoring year thing doesn't apply to Tavares whenever Leaf fans want to crow about him "having a career year" and how he's finally blossoming after he left NY.

weird thing to say to a Sharks fan talking about Stamkos. This is not an argument

 

[JoVel]

Next time somebody tells me Sidney Crosby is better than Micheal Haley, I can say “just watch the games” and I will automatically win the argument. I don’t even need to provide any kind of reasoning why the eye test tells me that - I can say “just watch the games” and win every time. I can even add in a sly personal attack used to attack somebody’s credibility.

He's shooting the puck again, which opens up everything else. Honestly, he hasn't been an elite player in 5 years. Until now. He's absolutely elite now. He's been fantastic since an early game against Nashville where he was terrible. Since then? Lights out. Shoot shoot shoot, score score score.

There you go.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

He's shooting the puck again, which opens up everything else. Honestly, he hasn't been an elite player in 5 years. Until now. He's absolutely elite now. He's been fantastic since an early game against Nashville where he was terrible. Since then? Lights out. Shoot shoot shoot, score score score.

I'd have taken Tavares easily until this season.

At 5-on-5, he’s literally shooting less often than he did last year.

There you go.

Okay, a post from a guy whose eye test provided him information that was literally false.

 

[Leafsrock95]

Honestly I’d take Stamkos on the leafs but in a vacuum I feel Tavares is the more versatile player but for Toronto Stamford is a better fit. Imagine him and marner

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

weird thing to say to a Sharks fan talking about Stamkos. This is not an argument

The person I originally quoted who brought up the production is a Leafs fan. My response was more to him than the person who quoted me after.

Besides, it is relevant to the discussion because the discussion was whether or not Stamkos regaining his form of pre-2014 (or whatever) means he's better than Tavares and whether it's reflected in his stats this year.

 

[DFC]

At 5-on-5, he’s literally shooting less often than he did last year.



Okay, a post from a guy whose eye test provided him information that was literally false.

You read spreadsheets wonderfully.

 

[Regal]

95, but you're not considering that scoring is up a fair bit this season. He was 12th in points and 14th in points per game last season and is currently 13th and 16th playing on the most stacked team and powerplay in the league. His goal scoring has massively improved though.

Goalscoring is a pretty big one for him though. Stamkos isn't at his best carrying/distributing the puck, and I don't think his assist totals last year were a sign of his playmaking so much as benefitting from those around him. He already has as many primary points as he did last season.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Strange then how Tavares came 8th and 26th in Selke voting the past two seasons and Stamkos didn't have a single vote.

I personally don't think you can put much stock in random throwaway Selke votes. The 8th place finish might be a decent enough evidence to support his case, but once a player finishes in the 20+ range that usually means two or three beat writers decided to toss him a 5th place vote because they like him. The players who are good defensively tend to constantly get Top 10 finishes most years.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You read spreadsheets wonderfully.

Yeah, too bad I don’t watch every game of every player with heavily biased eyes so I can see things that literally aren’t happening. (Like Stamkos shooting significantly more and not playing with Kucherov)

 

[DFC]

Yeah, too bad I don’t watch every game of every player with heavily biased eyes so I can see things that literally aren’t happening. (Like Stamkos shooting significantly more and not playing with Kucherov)

Absolutely you can't watch every player. Instead you read a spreadsheet and assume you understand if and how their game has changed or has not changed, without bothering to take a peek.

Stamkos has 45 ES points as of right now. Last year he scored 53 ES points all year, and played that ENTIRE year with Kucherov. So yeah, there's been a big improvement.

 

[authentic]

I personally don't think you can put much stock in random throwaway Selke votes. The 8th place finish might be a decent enough evidence to support his case, but once a player finishes in the 20+ range that usually means two or three beat writers decided to toss him a 5th place vote because they like him. The players who are good defensively tend to constantly get Top 10 finishes most years.

I'm aware of that, but I got Lol'd at for stating Tavares is better than Stamkos defensively who hasn't received a single vote, and rightfully so. I personally don't think Tavares is a great defensive player but he's above average and better than Stamkos.

 

[authentic]

Goalscoring is a pretty big one for him though. Stamkos isn't at his best carrying/distributing the puck, and I don't think his assist totals last year were a sign of his playmaking so much as benefitting from those around him. He already has as many primary points as he did last season.

Fair enough he is probably better, I don't see how he's better than Tavares though who has even more goals and better all around play.

 

[authentic]

The person I originally quoted who brought up the production is a Leafs fan. My response was more to him than the person who quoted me after.

Besides, it is relevant to the discussion because the discussion was whether or not Stamkos regaining his form of pre-2014 (or whatever) means he's better than Tavares and whether it's reflected in his stats this year.

Was it to me? Because I don't think Tavares is having a career year. Sorry if not.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Stamkos has a better contract for pretty similar players.

 

[DFC]

Goalscoring is a pretty big one for him though. Stamkos isn't at his best carrying/distributing the puck, and I don't think his assist totals last year were a sign of his playmaking so much as benefitting from those around him. He already has as many primary points as he did last season.

Stamkos has turned into a legit threat carrying and distributing the puck. Wasn't the case last year. All his decisions just seem better this year, whereas last year (and several years before) they led to a lot of broken plays and dangerous mistakes. Not so this year. It's like a different player.

 

[Iapyi]

Tavares is a better all around player, he is better defensively by a substantial margin.

 

[JoVel]

Yeah, too bad I don’t watch every game of every player with heavily biased eyes so I can see things that literally aren’t happening. (Like Stamkos shooting significantly more and not playing with Kucherov)

How is it biased to say that Stamkos has one good season in his last five?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Absolutely you can't watch every player. Instead you read a spreadsheet and assume you understand if and how their game has changed or has not changed, without bothering to take a peek.

Stamkos has 45 ES points as of right now. Last year he scored 53 ES points all year, and played that ENTIRE year with Kucherov. So yeah, there's been a big improvement.

Micheal Haley's game has massively improved this season because he's shooting and scoring way more and setting up his teammates to score way more.

If you try to look up any of this to see whether or not it's true, you're just reading a spreadsheet and assuming you understand things. The only way to understand anything is to watch every single game or listen to heavily biased Lightning fans on HFBoards who regurgitate narratives that they hear on Fox Sports Florida & Sun.