SSM Greyhounds 2018-19 Season Thread
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You gotta remember that when you watch DeMeo he doesn’t stand out defensively or offensively. He’s not scoring a bunch and he’s not making big hits or fighting. The thing DeMeo gives to the team is confidence and stability. Those things can be missed when first watching him, so I don’t blame Dean for not seeing it right away.
But when the team’s goal differential increases quite a bit with him and the boys play their puck possession game better with him in then you’d think he’d clue in. Especially with Calisti struggling
Here’s to hoping their just resting him in case we have a long run??? Haha
But when the team’s goal differential increases quite a bit with him and the boys play their puck possession game better with him in then you’d think he’d clue in. Especially with Calisti struggling
Here’s to hoping their just resting him in case we have a long run??? Haha
Bannister's teams never appeared to be hoping for the horn to win a game. This team simply does not have it. Raftis should be thinking of three words, sell, sell, sell! No stars like a Frost or Hayton on this team, but lots of good players and the rookies definitely look promising. Again, potential draft pics, just not 1st, 2nd or possibly even 3rd rounders. Add a bench filled with great draft picks next season and the Greyhounds will be on track.
Keep Dean around for one more year at a cheap salary and let a few players develop. Then spend the money to hire an experienced coach and make a run for the cup in 2020-2021.
Keep Dean around for one more year at a cheap salary and let a few players develop. Then spend the money to hire an experienced coach and make a run for the cup in 2020-2021.
shot caller
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- Apr 16, 2018
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EXACTLY -
I can’t unserstand how the idea of selling off is even up for debate.
Dean is here for a reason, there is no intention of having him be “the guy”.
Here is a quote from a July 12th article with Raftis.
“We are very confident that John is the right fit for the program at this time”.
There is a gap between where we are currently and where we will be if we act accordingly. This gap still needs to be manned and obviously that was a driving factor in bringing him in.
Again, feel how you will about this year’s team. We may have a legit shot at making some noise but that isn’t the singular factor when determining any action surrounding roster moves.
My apologies for the length of this post but I will refer back to my post from a few days ago...I certainly don’t claim to have all of the answers and by no means am I an expert.
Just my opinion but I think it’s a good one.
Precious Post -
Unfortunately, I believe the answer is still “sell”.
Let me paint a picture for a moment...
Last year was the typical and ideal team to seek additions to augment a run to the memorial cup. We were blessed with a group of high end talent that would be labeled our “seasoned vets”. We also possessed a few “stud”, inexperienced players that would be under Greyhound control for this year. The team’s make up almost demanded the push to go for it.
This year, the landscape is a bit different. This year, we have a few high end caliber players. They are the very same inexperienced, younger players that made last year’s team so special. They have now taken over for the likes of last year’s Katchouk and family. The difference in this year’s team is we lack the higher end younger players that we possessed with last year’s roster. We do not have a Hayton or Frost in our line up, other than, well Hayton and Frost. MacKay looks great this season but not “NHL first round” great.
Now I know that a year separates them but without a serious two or three players that are draft eligible who are considered absolute impact players, like Frost and Hayton were last year, we simply have no choice but to utilize the assets we have.
Everyone always remarks on the “open window” a team has for a championship run. The other aspect to consider is an “open window” for a highly effective rebuild. I’m not talking about a tear down and start from scratch that is bound to last years. I’m talking about a rebuild that has you back in contention within a season or two. This is what teams like London are very diligent at making happen. We lose control of Frost, Villalta, Sambrook, Howdeshell, and Hollowell. This is not up for debate. None of these players are returning.
Add the fact that it will be highly unlikely that Hayton will return next year and we are officially caught napping on the job. The amount teams will pay for the first list of players will be franchise changing. We haven’t sold off this much high end talent in what I can remember. As for Hayton, trade with conditions. Make all or at least some of the more potent draft picks conditional. If he is to return next year and give whatever team another year of service, all picks move up a round.
There is an opportunity to rebuild in a quick and efficient manner but that opportunity only exists this year. Next year, we just do not have the higher caliber talent that would...
A) Lead next year’s Greyhound team to a championship.
B) Be highly saught after by a contender on the open trade market.
Both of these things exist this year, but we have to consider which one outweighs the other. We took our chance at it last year. No regrets. This year, we require some clarity on where we truthfully wish to go in the next few years. London was aware of their situation last year and made the same choices as I think we need to make this year.
If we are not responsible about things, there is a good chance we are sitting here for the next few years in a position like Sarnia is today or like Hamilton is as well. Hamilton made their push with a one year window to win and we see how that works out.
When you have a two year window, like we appear to have now, you must use both effectively.
Let me paint a picture for a moment...
Last year was the typical and ideal team to seek additions to augment a run to the memorial cup. We were blessed with a group of high end talent that would be labeled our “seasoned vets”. We also possessed a few “stud”, inexperienced players that would be under Greyhound control for this year. The team’s make up almost demanded the push to go for it.
This year, the landscape is a bit different. This year, we have a few high end caliber players. They are the very same inexperienced, younger players that made last year’s team so special. They have now taken over for the likes of last year’s Katchouk and family. The difference in this year’s team is we lack the higher end younger players that we possessed with last year’s roster. We do not have a Hayton or Frost in our line up, other than, well Hayton and Frost. MacKay looks great this season but not “NHL first round” great.
Now I know that a year separates them but without a serious two or three players that are draft eligible who are considered absolute impact players, like Frost and Hayton were last year, we simply have no choice but to utilize the assets we have.
Everyone always remarks on the “open window” a team has for a championship run. The other aspect to consider is an “open window” for a highly effective rebuild. I’m not talking about a tear down and start from scratch that is bound to last years. I’m talking about a rebuild that has you back in contention within a season or two. This is what teams like London are very diligent at making happen. We lose control of Frost, Villalta, Sambrook, Howdeshell, and Hollowell. This is not up for debate. None of these players are returning.
Add the fact that it will be highly unlikely that Hayton will return next year and we are officially caught napping on the job. The amount teams will pay for the first list of players will be franchise changing. We haven’t sold off this much high end talent in what I can remember. As for Hayton, trade with conditions. Make all or at least some of the more potent draft picks conditional. If he is to return next year and give whatever team another year of service, all picks move up a round.
There is an opportunity to rebuild in a quick and efficient manner but that opportunity only exists this year. Next year, we just do not have the higher caliber talent that would...
A) Lead next year’s Greyhound team to a championship.
B) Be highly saught after by a contender on the open trade market.
Both of these things exist this year, but we have to consider which one outweighs the other. We took our chance at it last year. No regrets. This year, we require some clarity on where we truthfully wish to go in the next few years. London was aware of their situation last year and made the same choices as I think we need to make this year.
If we are not responsible about things, there is a good chance we are sitting here for the next few years in a position like Sarnia is today or like Hamilton is as well. Hamilton made their push with a one year window to win and we see how that works out.
When you have a two year window, like we appear to have now, you must use both effectively.
soo hound girl
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- Oct 20, 2017
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You guys make me laugh last year there were posters on here hating Bannister now you think Dean can’t coach with a whole new coaching staff I think they are doing a great job they are still playing the hockey we have been playing since Keefs days what do you guys want to see Lambert’s dump and chase game or ask North Bay fans about Butlers defensive trap game how exciting that is to watch come on People wake up already their is 18 other teams wishing they could be in our shoes (don’t sell keep on drafting and developing players the way we have been the last 6-7 years and we will always be a top team).
Coach Dean and his assistant coaches have been a great choice in my view keep up the good work and Dean should tell Raftis let’s give London a run this spring and see what happens because just because on paper they appear Deeper that always doesn’t win a 7 game series as we all know
It's hard to be too critical of Coach Dean at this juncture. I disagree with a few of his decisions but the development of the young players under his watch has been a lot better than anyone expected. Hopefully he can gain experience as we go along and become the coach that everyone wants. I like that he's encouraging more physical play than our previous coach. Getting a man in front of the net has played a big role in our power play success.
Edit: Just perusing the power play stats, Flint has the same number of shorties allowed as they do powerplay goals (13). London isn't far behind them in that regard. Peterborough has only 12 powerplay goals all season!
It makes our league leading 30 goals and only 2 given up look pretty good. Our penalty killing is also second in the league for percentage and have 11 shorties with only 20 given up.
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No one said play dump and chase or trap hockey. Nor did anyone suggest the Greyhounds said stray away from the puck control style of play consistently developeding hockey players in the SOO. As for the thoughts of fans from 18 other teams hoping to be in our shoes, if we do not sell this season, the Greyhounds will not have the draft picks required to remain a top team.
soo hound girl
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Draft picks are overrated in my view their are teams out there if they had 20 picks in a year they are lucky to walk away with 2-3 players who end up in the ohl if you know how to draft you don’t need 2nd round picks question for you guys how many 2nd round picks have played on the hounds in the last 10 years?
That's a circular argument if I've ever seen one. We haven't had second round picks play for us because we haven't had any second round picks.
Ottawa took Jack Quinn in our spot in 2017. He'd look pretty good on our roster right now.
Kitchener took Riley Damiani in our spot in 2016. Kevin Bahl and Bode Wilde were also right there.
I can't really tell what our spot was in 2015, but Cole Coskey and Joseph Garreffa were right there.
In 2014 we took Boris Katchouk and Joseph Raaymakers.
In 2013 we took Colton White.
Keep in mind that most of those other players would have been even better in the Hounds development system.
Drafting well is a reason to keep our high picks, not to give them away. We always nail our second rounders when we have them.
It's time to get back on track where we develop our own stars and have surplus talent and picks to make a run. That's what allowed us to go for it multiple times over several years.
soo hound girl
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Exactly my point we haven’t had many 2nd round picks the last 10 years besides a few and look at the success we have been having we develop players better than anybody in this league( yes including London ) and drafting good players in later rounds seem to be working for us example McKay 5th round vs Porco 1st round 4th overall who would you rather have right now?
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soo hound girl
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Too bad we didn’t have a 2nd round pick in 2015 we could of had Macaulay Carson (career points 96 Sudbury) but oh ya we got frost in the 4th (277pts) LMAO
Since we’re going to bring up drafting allow me to provide some insight;
Year;
Round - % Chance at an impact player (points per game over .60 [sight compensation for defencemen that were solid but didn’t get .60]) - Did SSM get one
2012;
2nd - 24% - Struck Out
3rd - 15% - Struck Out
4th - 30% - Kyle Jenkins
5th - 30% - Drafted Ryan Mantha
6th - 25% - David Miller
7th+ - 6% - Halverson and Mercier
2013;
2nd - 10% - Colton White
3rd - 20% - Zach Senyshyn
4th - 25% - Struck Out
5th - 10% - Struck Out
6th - 0% - Struck Out
7th+ - 7% - Michael Bunting
2014;
2nd - 45% - Katchouk and Raaymakers
3rd - 25% - Tim Gettinger
4th - 15% - Conor Timmins
5th - 20% - Struck Out
6th - 15% - Struck Out
7th+ - 6% - Kopacka, Howdeshell, Hollowell
2015;
2nd - 26% - No Pick
3rd - 20% - Struck Out
4th - 20% - Morgan Frost
5th - 5% - Struck Out
6th - 5% - Struck Out
7th+ - 1% - Struck Out
I won’t compare 2016 or newer yet as they haven’t completed enough of their OHL career to tell.
The hounds draft extremely well, with only London getting more impact players through the same time span. Not having a 2nd round pick each year right now is not the end of the world but it’s not ideal. In 2012 we had a 2nd round pick and screwed it up, just like most teams.
The chances of getting an impact player are extremely low in each round, the fact that the hounds have picked them is incredible. In 2014 we took 3 impact players in the 7th-15th rounds. There were 11 impact players of the ~208 players locked in those rounds and we got 3 of the 11.
We don’t have a 2nd round pick this year. Approximately 75-80% of the teams that pick in the 2nd round this year won’t get an impact player anyways. But we did when we sold the pick....
So again, as I’ve stated before. Here’s the problem; if you’re the GM for the Greyhounds and I’m buying Morgan Frost. I’m 100% getting an impact player and even if I give you 5 second round picks, the chances of you getting an impact player to replace him are 20% each time you pick.
It’s very hard to sell unless someone pays a ridiculous price because of those low odds and how little players become impactful players. Now you want the hounds to try it with 4-5 impact players?
The Hounds should give up 4-5 for sure impact players for a 20-25% chance to replace them?
Pump the brakes. Let this team play without the stars during December and see our true depth. The boys struggle in December without the big guns and i’d look at selling. But if this team stays competitive or even if they keep wining without he big guns then you can’t sell.
Year;
Round - % Chance at an impact player (points per game over .60 [sight compensation for defencemen that were solid but didn’t get .60]) - Did SSM get one
2012;
2nd - 24% - Struck Out
3rd - 15% - Struck Out
4th - 30% - Kyle Jenkins
5th - 30% - Drafted Ryan Mantha
6th - 25% - David Miller
7th+ - 6% - Halverson and Mercier
2013;
2nd - 10% - Colton White
3rd - 20% - Zach Senyshyn
4th - 25% - Struck Out
5th - 10% - Struck Out
6th - 0% - Struck Out
7th+ - 7% - Michael Bunting
2014;
2nd - 45% - Katchouk and Raaymakers
3rd - 25% - Tim Gettinger
4th - 15% - Conor Timmins
5th - 20% - Struck Out
6th - 15% - Struck Out
7th+ - 6% - Kopacka, Howdeshell, Hollowell
2015;
2nd - 26% - No Pick
3rd - 20% - Struck Out
4th - 20% - Morgan Frost
5th - 5% - Struck Out
6th - 5% - Struck Out
7th+ - 1% - Struck Out
I won’t compare 2016 or newer yet as they haven’t completed enough of their OHL career to tell.
The hounds draft extremely well, with only London getting more impact players through the same time span. Not having a 2nd round pick each year right now is not the end of the world but it’s not ideal. In 2012 we had a 2nd round pick and screwed it up, just like most teams.
The chances of getting an impact player are extremely low in each round, the fact that the hounds have picked them is incredible. In 2014 we took 3 impact players in the 7th-15th rounds. There were 11 impact players of the ~208 players locked in those rounds and we got 3 of the 11.
We don’t have a 2nd round pick this year. Approximately 75-80% of the teams that pick in the 2nd round this year won’t get an impact player anyways. But we did when we sold the pick....
So again, as I’ve stated before. Here’s the problem; if you’re the GM for the Greyhounds and I’m buying Morgan Frost. I’m 100% getting an impact player and even if I give you 5 second round picks, the chances of you getting an impact player to replace him are 20% each time you pick.
It’s very hard to sell unless someone pays a ridiculous price because of those low odds and how little players become impactful players. Now you want the hounds to try it with 4-5 impact players?
The Hounds should give up 4-5 for sure impact players for a 20-25% chance to replace them?
Pump the brakes. Let this team play without the stars during December and see our true depth. The boys struggle in December without the big guns and i’d look at selling. But if this team stays competitive or even if they keep wining without he big guns then you can’t sell.
OHLfan200
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- Nov 28, 2017
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Off topic here but Johnston and Kartye are workhorses.. those two just don’t stop from the second their feet hit the ice to the second they’re stepping on to the bench. They’re really impressive!
OHLfan200
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- Nov 28, 2017
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I agree. I mean you could have all the second round picks in the world but there’s always going to be sleepers and busts. But yeah the next couple weeks are going to be huge in deciding what this team is going to look like come January.
soo hound girl
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soo hound girl
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You're just cherry picking examples and it doesn't do anything to prove your point. We took Liam Hawel in the first round and Alex Formention went in the 11th. Does that mean we suck?
I get that we can draft decent players in the late round. That's a big plus for us. Are we consistently getting star players in the late rounds? The answer is no. The majority of our elite players have come in the top 3 or 4 rounds.
If we're so good at drafting then why not turn Morgan Frost into 6 or 7 second rounders. Our record would suggest that we will nail at least 2 or 3 of those picks.
I understand your point of view. You desperately want to win this year at all costs. That makes sense, I'm grappling with the same feelings. Try to understand my point of view.
So with 9 picks between the second and fourth round we got:
Colton White
Zach Senyshyn
Hayden Verbeek
Boris Katchouk
Joseph Raaymakers
Tim Gettinger
Conor Timmins
Anthony Demeo
Morgan Frost
I'm not eliminating the busts or anything. That's all of them.
You are telling me that the chances of landing a good player are 20%???
A high pick in the hands of our front office is money in the bank. It's not like we're the Petes or something where we constantly miss on high picks.
Our scouts can still identify gems while shopping in the dollar store aisle, but they've shown what they can do when they are choosing from the high end hardware and it's very impressive.
soo hound girl
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Not trying to cherry pick, using McKay and Porco because for years there has been a debate over who was better I always liked McKay better myself and I guess the hounds did also but Saginaw liked Porco enough to pick him 4th overall either Saginaw scouts blew that one or the hounds scouts just are dam good at what they do
You keep posting sell, but quite frankly take a look at how many players we drafted that were taken as later round picks or free agents. This 2nd round pick argument is rubbish. Considering our #1 goalie was a free agent, and does anyone remember Michael Bunting? He was passed over in his first year of eligibility. Draft picks mean nothing without a great scouting staff. Enough already about 2nd round picks. The next month will determine alot, but regardless of whether we sell or not is not going to make or break the team in the future
And that’s where things get complicated. Because we’re so good at drafting it makes those picks a bit more valuable. However, we have a new scouting department as I believe 2 from last season have moved up.
In the top rounds there’s normally about 4 impact players each round. What are the odds we can get them with one of the last picks in the round? We got some of those guys early in the rounds ^
To bring up numbers specific to SSM (2012-2015);
- 75% of our 2nd round picks were impact players
- 50% of our 3rd round picks were impact players
- 75% of our 4th round picks were impact players
- 25% of our 5th round picks were impact players
- 25% of our 6th round picks were impact players
- 17% (6 out of 36) of our picks from rounds 7-15 were impact players
SSM is consistently above the league average in scouting. We seem to nail a lot more of our picks than other franchises (minus 1st round picks cause it’s hard to screw those up). Wonder if they can keep it up with the new staff?
*Keep in mind these numbers of impact players exclude guys who were decent OHL players but failed to meet the threshold I’m using (such as Verbeek, DeMeo, Spinozzi). Those guys were NOT included in the “impact players”.
*Keep in mind this is for 4 drafts. That’s a small sample size and there’s been 3 drafts since.
soo hound girl
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Hardcore Techno
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- Mar 28, 2018
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Hardcore Techno
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- Mar 28, 2018
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Owen Sound beat the Knights 5-1 tonite. Well, their beatable. Everyone needs to chill. The Hounds are going to surprise, over achieve, what ever. Remember last year, ppl said hounds all the way. Guelph lost to the Wolves tonite to. Kooys got exposed, high blocker. Anything can happen. Woooooo.
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