Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training '19 Part 1: It wouldn't be spring training without drama

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ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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Which current Blue Jays will remain when team contends again


Billy McKinney, OF: Twenty-four years old, and projected to be the Jays’ Opening Day leadoff hitter. He’s also on his fourth organization despite appearing in just 38 major-league games to date, and he’d bat leadoff because the Blue Jays are totally devoid of viable alternatives atop the lineup. He’s a no.

Lourdes Gurriel, 2B/SS: In theory, this should be an easy yes. Gurriel is 25, and he’s signed through the 2023 season. He’s also got major holes in his swing, and doesn’t play good defence to hack it as a regular at short. Still, Gurriel batted .290 and slugged .478 in the second half last season, his contract is extremely team-friendly, and setting a target of 2023 gives the Jays lots of time to develop their top prospects and become playoff-relevant again. So, he’s a (tepid) yes, even if he’s no more than a utility man by the time it happens.

Justin Smoak, 1B: Thirty-two years old and eligible for free agency at season’s end. He’s the best hitter on the roster, but no.

Kendrys Morales, DH: Turns 36 in June. No.

Randal Grichuk, RF: The tough part of evaluating a rebuilding team is our natural tendency to look long and hard at its best players, even though those players aren’t all that special, precisely because the team is rebuilding. Grichuk led the club in isolated power last season and has 35-homer upside if given the chance to play every day. He also strikes out about five times more than he walks. On a championship team he’s either a fourth outfielder, or your weakest starter. No.

Kevin Pillar, CF: (mimics Bart Simpson at the chalkboard)
I will not overreact to a Kevin Pillar April hot start.
I will not overreact to a Kevin Pillar April hot start.
I will not overreact to a Kevin Pillar…
No.

Freddy Galvis, SS: Last summer, I lobbied the Jays to sign Galvis as a low-cost, solid-return option on a short-term deal. Mission accomplished! Even if he fares as well as hoped, he won’t stay on this team well into his 30s.

Brandon Drury, 3B: Stopgap. No.

Danny Jansen, C: One of the top catching prospects in the game, impressed in his big-league debut next season, Jays control his rights through 2024. As close to an unequivocal yes as we can get.

Teoscar Hernandez, OF/Richard Urena IF, Luke Maile, C/Dalton Pompey, OF: A fairly young bench mob, but we can’t in good conscience predict a pine-rider to stick around for years to come.

Marcus Stroman, SP: He’s a lot better than what he showed in his injury-marred 2018 campaign, he’s in his prime, and he wears his love for his adopted home city on his sleeve. All those factors should make him a candidate to be a Blue Jay for life. Unfortunately sports rarely work out that way. With two years to go until free agency, it’s hard to imagine Stroman pitching for the next Jays contender, barring the off chance for a return engagement in the twilight of his career.

Aaron Sanchez, SP: In a similar spot to Stroman, except he’s got a ton of injury baggage to grapple with. Tough to see the Blue Jays throwing their lot in with a pitcher of his profile, unless they buy low on an extension and Sanchez’s injury troubles all suddenly melt away. Don’t bet on it.

Clay Buchholz, SP: One of my favorite bargain pickups of the winter, but Buchholz might be pushing 40 by the time the Jays vie for the playoffs again.

Matt Shoemaker, SP/Clayton Richard, SP: Stopgaps. No.

Ken Giles, RP: One of the team’s best bets for a bounce back this season, but even the very best relief pitchers in the league should be seen as ticking time bombs, given the volatility of that position…

Ryan Tepera, RP/Bud Norris, RP/Tim Mayza, RP/John Axford, RP/David Paulino, RP/Elvis Luciano, RP: …which is why these guys are all automatic no’s too.

Ryan Borucki, SP: In our conversation last week, Ennis tossed out 24-year-old starting pitcher Ryan Borucki as another candidate to last all the way until the Jays contend again. Borucki might not win a job with the big club coming out of this spring, and even if he does, his weak strikeout rates make him a long shot to make an impact over the long haul.

Even if you’re feeling generous, though, we’re talking maybe three players who’re good bets to go north at the end of March and stick around long enough to compete in a pennant race. So, if you really want to watch the future of baseball in Toronto come April, best to catch a game in Buffalo or New Hampshire instead.
 

Deebo

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Jan 28, 2005
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The Fan made the Scott MacArthur addition to Blue Jays broadcasts official today.

We already knew he was going to be hosting Jays Talk, but he will also be third in the booth for home broadcasts.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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For me, Alford needs to either get the Ks down or prove that the power is real. Both are somewhat realistic because he's done the former before (though it was at AA) and scouts have long talked about his raw power.

10% BB, 30% K, .150 ISO, plus baserunning, plus defense... that's a solid ~3 WAR player.

Yeah, to me, he could go one of two ways: cleans up the K's and he's a George Springer type, doesn't clean up the K's and he's a Keon Broxton type.

Regardless of whether he continues raking this spring, he'd be in Buffalo if it was my call until he showed consistent production.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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Which current Blue Jays will remain when team contends again


Billy McKinney, OF: Twenty-four years old, and projected to be the Jays’ Opening Day leadoff hitter. He’s also on his fourth organization despite appearing in just 38 major-league games to date, and he’d bat leadoff because the Blue Jays are totally devoid of viable alternatives atop the lineup. He’s a no.

Lourdes Gurriel, 2B/SS: In theory, this should be an easy yes. Gurriel is 25, and he’s signed through the 2023 season. He’s also got major holes in his swing, and doesn’t play good defence to hack it as a regular at short. Still, Gurriel batted .290 and slugged .478 in the second half last season, his contract is extremely team-friendly, and setting a target of 2023 gives the Jays lots of time to develop their top prospects and become playoff-relevant again. So, he’s a (tepid) yes, even if he’s no more than a utility man by the time it happens.

Justin Smoak, 1B: Thirty-two years old and eligible for free agency at season’s end. He’s the best hitter on the roster, but no.

Kendrys Morales, DH: Turns 36 in June. No.

Randal Grichuk, RF: The tough part of evaluating a rebuilding team is our natural tendency to look long and hard at its best players, even though those players aren’t all that special, precisely because the team is rebuilding. Grichuk led the club in isolated power last season and has 35-homer upside if given the chance to play every day. He also strikes out about five times more than he walks. On a championship team he’s either a fourth outfielder, or your weakest starter. No.

Kevin Pillar, CF: (mimics Bart Simpson at the chalkboard)
I will not overreact to a Kevin Pillar April hot start.
I will not overreact to a Kevin Pillar April hot start.
I will not overreact to a Kevin Pillar…
No.

Freddy Galvis, SS: Last summer, I lobbied the Jays to sign Galvis as a low-cost, solid-return option on a short-term deal. Mission accomplished! Even if he fares as well as hoped, he won’t stay on this team well into his 30s.

Brandon Drury, 3B: Stopgap. No.

Danny Jansen, C: One of the top catching prospects in the game, impressed in his big-league debut next season, Jays control his rights through 2024. As close to an unequivocal yes as we can get.

Teoscar Hernandez, OF/Richard Urena IF, Luke Maile, C/Dalton Pompey, OF: A fairly young bench mob, but we can’t in good conscience predict a pine-rider to stick around for years to come.

Marcus Stroman, SP: He’s a lot better than what he showed in his injury-marred 2018 campaign, he’s in his prime, and he wears his love for his adopted home city on his sleeve. All those factors should make him a candidate to be a Blue Jay for life. Unfortunately sports rarely work out that way. With two years to go until free agency, it’s hard to imagine Stroman pitching for the next Jays contender, barring the off chance for a return engagement in the twilight of his career.

Aaron Sanchez, SP: In a similar spot to Stroman, except he’s got a ton of injury baggage to grapple with. Tough to see the Blue Jays throwing their lot in with a pitcher of his profile, unless they buy low on an extension and Sanchez’s injury troubles all suddenly melt away. Don’t bet on it.

Clay Buchholz, SP: One of my favorite bargain pickups of the winter, but Buchholz might be pushing 40 by the time the Jays vie for the playoffs again.

Matt Shoemaker, SP/Clayton Richard, SP: Stopgaps. No.

Ken Giles, RP: One of the team’s best bets for a bounce back this season, but even the very best relief pitchers in the league should be seen as ticking time bombs, given the volatility of that position…

Ryan Tepera, RP/Bud Norris, RP/Tim Mayza, RP/John Axford, RP/David Paulino, RP/Elvis Luciano, RP: …which is why these guys are all automatic no’s too.

Ryan Borucki, SP: In our conversation last week, Ennis tossed out 24-year-old starting pitcher Ryan Borucki as another candidate to last all the way until the Jays contend again. Borucki might not win a job with the big club coming out of this spring, and even if he does, his weak strikeout rates make him a long shot to make an impact over the long haul.

Even if you’re feeling generous, though, we’re talking maybe three players who’re good bets to go north at the end of March and stick around long enough to compete in a pennant race. So, if you really want to watch the future of baseball in Toronto come April, best to catch a game in Buffalo or New Hampshire instead.

this is what bugs me so much.

most of what this FO has acquired are not going to be important pieces when we're good again.

we could have tried harder to go all in when we were good and it wouldn't have effected our next contending core whatsoever.
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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this is what bugs me so much.

most of what this FO has acquired are not going to be important pieces when we're good again.

we could have tried harder to go all in when we were good and it wouldn't have effected our next contending core whatsoever.

The article also automatically writes off controllable relievers (Paulino, Luciano, Mayza) and assumes no one in the 24-26 age range with 4-6 years of control will develop into anything beyond bench players (Teoscar, Pompey, McKinney, Drury, Gurriel). Hell, they write off Borucki because of the Ks without looking at anything else and think a guy who had a 115 wRC+ and 2.1 fWAR in 124 games would be "a fourth OF or the worst starter on a championship team".

It's a weird analysis.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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The article also automatically writes off controllable relievers (Paulino, Luciano, Mayza) and assumes no one in the 24-26 age range with 4-6 years of control will develop into anything beyond bench players (Teoscar, Pompey, McKinney, Drury, Gurriel). Hell, they write off Borucki because of the Ks without looking at anything else and think a guy who had a 115 wRC+ and 2.1 fWAR in 124 games would be "a fourth OF or the worst starter on a championship team".

It's a weird analysis.

honestly, though, chances any of those guys are more than depth players longterm are slim.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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The article also automatically writes off controllable relievers (Paulino, Luciano, Mayza) and assumes no one in the 24-26 age range with 4-6 years of control will develop into anything beyond bench players (Teoscar, Pompey, McKinney, Drury, Gurriel). Hell, they write off Borucki because of the Ks without looking at anything else and think a guy who had a 115 wRC+ and 2.1 fWAR in 124 games would be "a fourth OF or the worst starter on a championship team".

It's a weird analysis.

Very Jonah Keri-esque.

honestly, though, chances any of those guys are more than depth players longterm are slim.

I mean...Gurriel was the seventh player since 1900 to have a multihit streak of at least 11 games and the first since Tony Perez in '73. Hall of Famer Rogers Hornsby holds the all-time multihit streak at 13 games, while Tony Fernandez was the previous record holder for Toronto with nine. He's 25.

Teoscar has 30 HR in his 618 PA's as a Blue Jay. He's 26.

The safer bet seems to be for them to land as regulars on a good team.
 

zeke

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i dunno, neither of those guys is going to have an easy time being an above average hitter or defender.
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Excerpt: Jerry Howarth on constructive criticism and the Jose Reyes trade - Sportsnet.ca

Sometimes even when we pretend that a player is right there next to us, there can be extenuating circumstances that can factor in. I have no regrets about what I said. I do, however, wish I had softened what I said a few days later and not let my emotions and feelings get the best of me. In the big picture, I also learned a valuable lesson about honesty. That came from Alex Anthopoulos. “You sure made that trade of Reyes to the Rockies a lot more difficult for me because the Rockies kept asking what was going on with Reyes. That deal took a few more weeks than I expected, but we pulled it off.”

I had never thought about that. My words could have negatively affected a transaction that was paramount to the Blue Jays’ future success in 2015, bringing Troy Tulowitzki and LaTroy Hawkins to the Blue Jays.

Good read in my opinion.
 

zeke

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Mar 14, 2005
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Both above average hitters in their MLB PA's, so far. I imagine we're assuming both will get worse.

Rhys Hoskins, Bryce Harper and Nick Castellanos will never be average defenders.

well, they both did have red hot streaks near the start, but both cooled down considerably, and given their milb track records that's probably not a surprise. their projections this year seem pretty fair to me.
 

BlueForever75

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Oct 4, 2017
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Good on Giles if this was indeed the reason for ripping Paulino. In the end there should be no one on this team that takes a drill off. Your going hard and wanting to better yourself or the team. And if your not then you shouldn't be on it. Simple.

I am ok with stuff like this especially when it comes to rookies.
 

Walshy7

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Sep 18, 2016
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Good on Giles if this was indeed the reason for ripping Paulino. In the end there should be no one on this team that takes a drill off. Your going hard and wanting to better yourself or the team. And if your not then you shouldn't be on it. Simple.

I am ok with stuff like this especially when it comes to rookies.

I never understand stuff like this, just do the f***ing drill and be done with it. Most times in sports I grew up playing if you refused a drill you had to do it 5x 6x more by yourself or even worse was the coach makes all your teammates do it again. Why put yourself in a position like that? or to even be yelled at, its a day of drills then you are done go to the bar or a nice restaurant. enjoy your steak knowing you really earned it today. especially in baseball there aren't a lot of days that will be that physically hard in the regular season
 

chaosrevolver

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Good on Giles if this was indeed the reason for ripping Paulino. In the end there should be no one on this team that takes a drill off. Your going hard and wanting to better yourself or the team. And if your not then you shouldn't be on it. Simple.

I am ok with stuff like this especially when it comes to rookies.
Agreed. Good for Giles. Do the f***ing drill or get out. No one is above the team
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
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I'm going to a few games in Buffalo. Should be fun. Great stadium to watch a game.
 
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