News Article: Sportsnet: Trouba Requests Trade - Part II

[Evil Little]

I also want to be clear I'm not defending overhardt or troubas stance.

Just there's a justifiable logical ground for "usage" to actually be the main/complete reason for trouba wanting out.

Also, if your preferred action regarding Trouba does not put the maximization of Winnipeg assets/team above all else your doing it wrong. That includes actively slighting trouba.

8 points for the jets and -3 for Trouba is not better then 9 points for the jets and +1 for Trouba.

As has been pointed out, when they never gave the Jets the opportunity to reward him monetarily for his difficult usage, the argument is completely moot.

Is there any numbers on Stuart-Myers as a pairing? I'm curious because for all of the talk around being buried beneath Myers on the depth chart, I don't see it mentioned that a year ago we all thought Buff was gone and not Ladd. We couldn't afford to keep both because we needed to pay guys like Trouba, or am I in dreamland here? If Buff goes, Trouba likely gets to play his right side more often with better ice time. I don't fault Maurice because his job is to maximize his roster and I thought he did that well enough with the pairings despite playing Stuart. Ever. I mean, you'd want to shelter lesser players as much as possible. We do that in beer league. Seems like he did that hiding in Myers on the right and pairing Trouba with Stuart, because Myers-Stuart or Chiarot-Stuart seems like a bad idea.

Anyone else feel this sould have come up in between Buff signing and the trade deadline? Maybe we dealt Trouba then and kept Ladd? I dunno. Now I'm annoyed. The young guys have few options in the CBA to help themselves squeeze a few extra bucks, so I wasn't upset at the request two days ago. Now I am.

Interesting point. I wonder if some sort of preliminary Trouba discussions even shifted the focus from Ladd to Byfuglien.

I would find that discouraging since I thought Byfuglien was the player to keep the whole time (yes, really).

I completely agree that there are legitimate, objective grounds on which Trouba could say he is being misused as an individual. But the issue, and I've seen it raised elsewhere in this thread, is that good players often make sacrifices if it makes their team better. Much of Trouba's and Overhardt's argument seems to be based on maximizing Trouba's value, team be damned. More powerplay time for Trouba and more OZone starts means more points. But it also means less energy to kill penalties and more DZone starts for players less equipped to handle them.

If the Jets have not made an offer commensurate with the value he provides for the team then I understand why he wants out. But if they have, then Trouba comes out looking like a selfish brat, poor usage or not.

And if they're not even listening to offers then it's pretty clear that it's all a smoke screen and Trouba wants out of Winnipeg for other reasons.

Lots of good discussion over the last couple of days, and I totally get the make Trouba rot mindset, but man I hope there is a deal out there all sides can live with. Hopefully any adds for a similar LHD will be minor or we get a nice add with a promising prospect. But I just want this cloud removed and have the team and fan base move on. I will then content myself with pushing my Trouba jersey to the back of the closet (beside the Bogo jersey) and participate fully in all chants and jeers upon Jacob's return to MTS Centre.

Except if the little runt and his dingleberry of an agent get their way then that's not something I can live with.

Unless someone named Hampus is coming our way...

Overhardt was far less impressive than I had feared. He is just another blowhard bully negotiator--I've known a number of them--and Chevy will have no problem handling his unfortunate but predictable act.

Very well-stated. I, too, was worried that Overhardt was a silver-tongued orater who could sell sunscreen to a bat. Really, really not the case.

Oh snap! I'm late. Very suprising

Tried 'JTROUBA8JetS'?

They'd also have Jack Johnson on the top pairing after that and Jones-Trouba- Savard RD side, and they have cap issues.
Cant' also see Anaheim trade their #1D either.

Finding a team with talented young LD, cap space and willingness to move that player can't be that great.

So when the hell are they going to sign him?

Wait.

If Trouba asked for a trade in May does that mean we could have Hall and Laine?

Oh...

Nah. If we ended up with the 6th-9th pick, then we could have probably had Trouba for Hall and picked one of the high profile D from this year's draft. Drafting Laine meant that we no longer had that carrot to dangle in front of our noses, so now Chevy can focus on getting a D back in place of Trouba.

Unlikely Chiarelli would have done it not either knowing Trouba's cap-hit, or having the ability to talk to them beforehand (which was possible July 1st, and would likely have taught him that Trouba has no ****ing interest signing in Edmonton).

In any case, I think the Jets need young, high-end D just as much as the Oilers do...

OK so out of sight out of mind. Just play it as if he got a groin injury or something and is out the season.

This is a pretty good strategy. Especially since--after Hampus Lindholm--I mostly just want the dumb duck to sit for a season and starting December 2nd have his punchline of an agent start scrambling, justifying, and begging for a second chance at his cut next year.

 

[JetsFan815]

Question to the mob. Does anyone know for a fact what the Jets were offering, monetary wise, Trouba before talks stalled?

Clearly you are trying to get at something here, so let's hear it instead of talking in code and beating around the bush

 

[kelsier]

Haven't really taken any part on this saga. Seems sad for the Jets fans and these requests tend to never lead into anything good. For what I've gathered he'd been misused and now the team is paying the price. Looks like Trouba is willing to take a hit in the PR front just to get out. As a Finn I'd love if the Jets somehow managed to deal him with the Sabres and get RR in return. Wishful dreaming though.

 

[ps241]

I don't disagree with much of your characterization of Overhardts tactics, but I would caution that in both the Turris and Johansen situations, Overhardt appears to have got what he wanted. Turris got his trade eventually and the Coyotes got virtually nothing (Rundblad played like 50 NHL games after that trade). Johansen's contract was significantly better than the Jackets main offer (particularly the structure with only one year remaining before UFA and where the final year paid him $6M which set the floor for his qualifying offer/next contract).

That's the scary part for me - that these tactics seem to have worked. And that's the main reason that I want Chevy to hold out. I don't want a Trouba to rot, I want the most favourable outcome for the Jets and if it means that we have to play chicken with Trouba and be willing to have him sit out the year, so be it.

I agree that It does appear the tactics have achieved the agents desired results up to this point but I think there are some circumstances in play this time that might be different.

Turris was actually not producing well in phoenix and the fit seemed poor with Tippett. He was bouncing back and for between the AHL and NHL and appeared to be stuck on the 3rd 4th line or in Tippett's dog house. Unlike Trouba he was not getting paid. Honestly in this case I was almost 50-50 with the tactic because Turris and Tippett went together like Ice cream and Onions.

With RyJo I think ownership pressed Davidson to make a deal and cut him out at the knees. I think blow heart had a huge advantage in the negociation. They still ended up getting Seth Jones in the deal so they made out fine. I get why Columbus was reluctant to go long and pay big based off a one year sample size. I don't agree with the tactic in this case but the end result was ok for both sides.

Trouba unlike the other two was probably going to get paid at market value since the comps were all pretty defined. I don't believe he was going to get held back short term or Long term financially. Also and this is key he is facing a GM that has the full and I am guessing enthusiastic backing of his owner to do what is nessesary to maximize asset valiue. Winnipeg can not afford to blink and they will need to get either Trouba under a long term market rate contract or they need to sign and trade for equal defensive value coming back. Short of those results they will need to send a message to agemts and and future top young talent that they do not negotiate with terrorists. If Chevy doesn't get what he wants I do believe he has the resolve to let Trouba sit for a year or more. I am hoping for a speedy resolution that works well for the Jets but part of me wants to see what happens to Overhardt if Trouba loses a season.

I believe Overhardt has met a worthy adversary and he has also met a team with much much narrower trade restrictions that border on being unworkable (young RH plug and play top pairing D man for your LH plug and play top pairing D man)?

I am pissed it has come to this but I do believe no matter what people think of Chevy he has the resolve to do what he needs to to maximize asset value. The only ****** part is it might cost the Jets a season if Trouba refuses to sign. Our D core would need to stay incredibly healthy and Morrissey would need a big year.

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

More players with good stats individually usually make good teams.


I said this earlier: top pairing dmen are damn hard to find. Top pairing dmen that are "rah rah rah Winnipeg" are even harder to find.

We've lucked out and got one in buff, indont like our chances in finding another two within the next five years.

When your dealing with talent at the ultra rare level I think it is sometimes necessary to go out of your way to accommodate that one player.

Feel free to disagree. I know my views are exceptionally utilitarian.

go team pragmatist

 

[Mathmew Purrrr Oh]

Trouba Who

Trouba Who

Boo hoo hoo

Trouba Who

Trouba Who

Boo hoo hoo



We chant it during game play that way the TV can record it and watch it go around the world in every sports casts, face book, whatever and then we never chant Trouba again until he signs with our Jets.

I wouldn't chant this because I'm not 8 years old

 

[JetsFan815]

With RyJo I think ownership pressed Davidson to make a deal and cut him out at the knees. I think blow heart had a huge advantage in the negociation. They still ended up getting Seth Jones in the deal so they made out fine. I get why Columbus was reluctant to go long and pay big based off a one year sample size. I don't agree with the tactic in this case but the end result was ok for both sides.

First of all the "blow heart" nick name- I like it. Secondly, for those interested and who haven't seen it here's a press conference from two years ago with a pissed off John Davidson during the Johansen negotiations, putting Overhardt and his ridiculous and unreasonable tactics on blast https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=B2_l_80JNYo#t=119. And here is Overhard responding by making a subtle dig at John Davidson's upbringing:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-p...tion--reveals-contract-numbers-191358217.html

“Well, I mean with all due respect, I don't think you do respond. I don't think it deserves a response and this is a business deal for a young man that is obviously just beginning to burgeon in his career and I just think it's business, and it's private. It's between Ryan Johansen and the Blue Jackets. It's unfortunate, but I was raised to have integrity in what I do by the people that raised me and it's unfortunate that they've taken this course but we're just going to ignore it and try to work in good faith to get a deal done."

This agent is a real piece of work. I wish Davidson & Kekalainen had stuck to their guns and taught this blowhard a lesson. I feel bad for Nashville who will have to deal with this rapscallion at the end of this upcoming season

I agree with you that Overhardt might have met his match in Chevy (fingers crossed). Haters and lovers of Chevy all agree that his strength (as much as it frustrates a lot of us) is his patience. Even though I have grown to hate the word "Process". I would love if anytime Overhardt or Trouba call Chevy for an update- Chevy simply replies- "The process is continuing" and hangs up the phone

 

[Lempo]

I wouldn't chant this because I'm not 8 years old

"We the signers hope for
a peaceful solution
to max valuation
for trading pur-po-ses!
And hopefully a
left-hand D
not too old
second-pair
to play the spot
the team sees fit
no! hard! feelings!"

 

[Zhamnov10]

As has been pointed out, when they never gave the Jets the opportunity to reward him monetarily for his difficult usage, the argument is completely moot.



Interesting point. I wonder if some sort of preliminary Trouba discussions even shifted the focus from Ladd to Byfuglien.

I would find that discouraging since I thought Byfuglien was the player to keep the whole time (yes, really).



And if they're not even listening to offers then it's pretty clear that it's all a smoke screen and Trouba wants out of Winnipeg for other reasons.



Except if the little runt and his dingleberry of an agent get their way then that's not something I can live with.

Unless someone named Hampus is coming our way...



Very well-stated. I, too, was worried that Overhardt was a silver-tongued orater who could sell sunscreen to a bat. Really, really not the case.



Tried 'JTROUBA8JetS'?



So when the hell are they going to sign him?





Unlikely Chiarelli would have done it not either knowing Trouba's cap-hit, or having the ability to talk to them beforehand (which was possible July 1st, and would likely have taught him that Trouba has no ****ing interest signing in Edmonton).

In any case, I think the Jets need young, high-end D just as much as the Oilers do...





This is a pretty good strategy. Especially since--after Hampus Lindholm--I mostly just want the dumb duck to sit for a season and starting December 2nd have his punchline of an agent start scrambling, justifying, and begging for a second chance at his cut next year.

If Trouba doesn't want to be in Winnipeg chances are he doesn't want to be in Edmonton either!

 

[Jimby]

His agent seemed to say yesterday that the Jets were not given a chance to make an offer. Trouba demanded a trade before there was talk of money.

Question to the mob. Does anyone know for a fact what the Jets were offering, monetary wise, Trouba before talks stalled?

 

[Aavco Cup]

Not a fan of Watters generally but IMO he was correct when he said that Chevy will play the patience game and will get what he wants (either in a trade or a signed player) He also said the only thing that could throw it off the rails is if ownership gets impatient and antsy and forces the GM to get on with it. He also said he didn't think that would happen in Winnipeg.

 

[Georgetown Al*]

I wouldn't chant this because I'm not 8 years old

It wasn't for you, its for Troubs since he is acting like a 5 year old so I didn't want to go to much over his head

 

[Hunter368]

Not a fan of Watters generally but IMO he was correct when he said that Chevy will play the patience game and will get what he wants (either in a trade or a signed player) He also said the only thing that could throw it off the rails is if ownership gets impatient and antsy and forces the GM to get on with it. He also said he didn't think that would happen in Winnipeg.

Chipman better not force Chevy to do anything.

 

[SCP Guy]

Not a fan of Watters generally but IMO he was correct when he said that Chevy will play the patience game and will get what he wants (either in a trade or a signed player) He also said the only thing that could throw it off the rails is if ownership gets impatient and antsy and forces the GM to get on with it. He also said he didn't think that would happen in Winnipeg.

Agree.... If anything Chipman the business man will get antsy to take a hard stance against this type of business tactic....He is not one to be pushed around in the board room!

We are very lucky to have this type of ownership behind the team.

 

[surixon]

They'd also have Jack Johnson on the top pairing after that and Jones-Trouba- Savard RD side, and they have cap issues.
Cant' also see Anaheim trade their #1D either.

Finding a team with talented young LD, cap space and willingness to move that player can't be that great.

Agreed which is why Trouba is still here.

 

[Channelcat]

His agent seemed to say yesterday that the Jets were not given a chance to make an offer. Trouba demanded a trade before there was talk of money.

That's the curious part. Why no offers? Even if Overhardt has insisted on a trade from the start, you'd still expect a contract offer. This is going to be a fascinating story to watch develop. I'm sure Chevy has a plan, but I'm not exactly sure what it is.

 

[Grind]

I do t this k the argument falls apart because they didn't allow an offer.

They feel he is or should have been an absolute number 1 dman by now.

He hasn't had that opportunity here and they feel he would have had it somewhere else and could walk onto a number of teams top pairs.

Essentially if he was a UFA they're saying they wouldn't have even looked at the jets offer. Since they only have limited control they are trying to force the issue.

 

[Grind]

People's obsession of making trouba hurt over getting what's best for the team is embarrassing to me.

We're talking a out a decision with arguably our most valuable piece aside from scheifele. I'm not interested at all at reducing that players value to my organization for the sake of a childish need to feel like the bigger man and give him his due.

If trading trouba tomorrow to exactly where he wants to go and he lives happily ever after as a Norris candidate and we get maximum value, like another Norris candidate the same age coming back, I would take that a million times over a lesser return that involved a less enjoyable experience for trouba.

Because I'm interested in building a winning and effective hockey team, not vengeance towards a player who is using the only tactic he has under the CBA to control his destiny.

 

[ffh]

I do t this k the argument falls apart because they didn't allow an offer.

They feel he is or should have been an absolute number 1 dman by now.

He hasn't had that opportunity here and they feel he would have had it somewhere else and could walk onto a number of teams top pairs.

or they could be lieing through their teeth.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

But if sitting him until a trade happens is the right thing to maximize value, is that necessarily punishing Trouba? You have to do the right thing for the organization: that may be signing him to a bridge or a full contract, it may mean sitting him for a year, or it may mean trading him. Are any of those things punitive, Grind?

 

[Grind]

But if sitting him until a trade happens is the right thing to maximize value, is that necessarily punishing Trouba? You have to do the right thing for the organization: that may be signing him to a bridge or a full contract, it may mean sitting him for a year, or it may mean trading him. Are any of those things punitive, Grind?

That's absolutely fine. I dont know what will be best for the org. There's just a lot of rhetoric that's using a negative impact on troubas as some sort of + for the decision. It shouldn't factor in at all.


Trouba at this point is a stack of money. Don't burn any of it just for the sake of it. Spend it as wisely as you can.


Did the poll thread just get merged? I could have sworn I was in that thread...

 

[surixon]

People's obsession of making trouba hurt over getting what's best for the team is embarrassing to me.

We're talking a out a decision with arguably our most valuable piece aside from scheifele. I'm not interested at all at reducing that players value to my organization for the sake of a childish need to feel like the bigger man and give him his due.

If trading trouba tomorrow to exactly where he wants to go and he lives happily ever after as a Norris candidate and we get maximum value, like another Norris candidate the same age coming back, I would take that a million times over a lesser return that involved a less enjoyable experience for trouba.

Because I'm interested in building a winning and effective hockey team, not vengeance towards a player who is using the only tactic he has under the CBA to control his destiny.

I think most of us would take your scenario but the chances of a team offering us that chance especially in the near term are slim. Maybe Anaheim does Lindholm if things fall apart there but otherwise I don't see anyone offering us that out and as such Trouba sits until someone does.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

That's absolutely fine. I dont know what will be best for the org. There's just a lot of rhetoric that's using a negative impact on troubas as some sort of + for the decision. It shouldn't factor in at all.

Trouba at this point is a stack of money. Don't burn any of it just for the sake of it. Spend it as wisely as you can.

Of course. That's the unemotional and correct thing to do. That's the path for GMs to take, while we pop a blood vessel getting angry about the situation.

 

[Grind]

I think most of us would take your scenario but the chances of a team offering us that chance especially in the near term are slim. Maybe Anaheim does Lindholm if things fall apart there but otherwise I don't see anyone offering us that out and as such Trouba sits until someone does.

That's fine. As long as trouba sitting isn't lowering the value. I don't know when you get the best offer. I don't know what the offers are now, or what they will be in 3 months.

Just that sticking it to JT shouldn't factor into the decision.

I'd rather trade him now for a slightly lesser version of him then wait 3 months and trade him for an even worse player.

That's obviously not the only options not the most likely scenario for sitting out. Just that the impact on trouba, positive or negative, should be 100% ignored.

 

[CorgisPer60]

I'm with you on the sort of punitive punishment that Jets fans seem to want to Levy against Trouba. I am annoyed and pretty bitter about the situation, but I want him to sit only so long as it helps to bring either a contract or a shiny asset on the blue line together. I'm not interested in punishing him to satisfy my jilted feelings.