Sportsnet top 20 centres

[Cellee]

Kuznetzov top 5? On what planet?

 

[Varan]

I’m paitently waiting for the day where they put AM above CM and actually try to justify it

 

[LeafsNation75]

It doesnt change the fact that Matthews has never hit 70

Cant hate someone for stating the truth

Thank god Matthews scored 40 goals as a rookie or else we be hearing how he's only a 39 goal scorer.

 

[KidLine93]

So let's say as an example Matthews gets 79 points this season. Are those same people going to than bring up how Matthews is not an 80 point player? Hell what if Matthews gets 89 points will they claim he's not a 90 point player? It's like all they focus on was him getting 69 points as a rookie and are using 70 points as an arbitrary number, even though they never mention his 40 goal rookie season.

You’re not a Stanley cup champion if you lose in game 7

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

Isn't this a statistical comparison of centres, as opposed to a subjective ranking? If so, why are there people arguing that any player is ranked too high/low? Have you found a mistake in the calculations? If not, at most, the only argument you may have is that the statistical information being considered is flawed.

Or is it just the usual knee-jerk reaction that some of you are known for, based on your own subjective feelings?

I wonder which is more likely...

 

[Kamiccolo]

You know how I know Matthews is underrated? All last year I was told he wasn't as good as Tavares. Matthews makes Tavares look average. Now it's the same BS with other guys. There is a reason why he is consistently ranked near the top, and no it is not because he is a Leaf. If it was then you would expect to see Kessel and Phaneuf on these lists near the top and Kessel was ranked near the bottom his whole time here.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Isn't this like the 5th top-20 thread that starts with a remark about how everyone will hate where Matthews is placed? I happen to think he's a great player, I think he is a little higher than he should be (but not much)....what I'm actually starting to hate is the weekly mantra - "everyone will hate where Matthews is placed"...it's getting so overused

#hateception

Leafs fans have played the victim on this website for years, I don't know why anyone is surprised with this.

A big problem with these types of analysis is that they tend to completely ignore context. It's basically looking purely at the numbers while not looking at any information beyond the numbers. Some would argue that it's purely objective based on that, but at the same point, players have outlier seasons pretty regularly. With Crosby, they mention his "season long cold streak at ES", but don't do anything to account for that. Crosby had an on ice shooting% of 8% last year, which is the lowest in his career, 2.1% less than where he was at in 2016-2017 and 2.6% below his career on ice shooting%. That's a clear outlier number, but they don't really do anything to account for that. They just mention that he had a down year and leave it at that.

This isn't just with Crosby either, Crosby was just the first guy that jumped out to me. Another good one is Kopitar, who had an uncharacteristically poor season in 2016-2017.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You know how I know Matthews is underrated? All last year I was told he wasn't as good as Tavares. Matthews makes Tavares look average. Now it's the same BS with other guys. There is a reason why he is consistently ranked near the top, and no it is not because he is a Leaf. If it was then you would expect to see Kessel and Phaneuf on these lists near the top and Kessel was ranked near the bottom his whole time here.

Here is the best example of that. Remember when there was those poll questions of who were the best centres in the NHL was, John Tavares was voted #4.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-4th-best-centre.2443075/

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Here is the best example of that. Remember when there was those poll questions of who were the best centres in the NHL was, John Tavares was voted #4.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/who-is-the-4th-best-centre.2443075/

Oh good, the poll with a whopping total of 61 votes for Tavares on a website with well over 100,000 members is used to indicate HF's consensus opinion.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Oh good, the poll with a whopping total of 61 votes for Tavares on a website with well over 100,000 members is used to indicate HF's consensus opinion.

I was only using that as an example to show the hypocrisy the way others thought of Tavares at the time when he was on the Islanders, compared to a few months later when he signed in Toronto.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I was only using that as an example to show the hypocrisy the way others thought of Tavares at the time when he was on the Islanders, compared to a few months later when he signed in Toronto.

It's only hypocrisy if the exact same people who voted for Tavares in that poll are now rating him low. It's not hypocrisy if people who didn't vote in that poll are now criticizing him.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Toronto is the biggest hockey market.
Sportsnet knows which side their bread is buttered on and what gives them ratings.
Can’t really blame them for overhyping the Leaf players. But there’s no defensible argument for ranking Matthews number 5. None.

 

[LeafsNation75]

It's only hypocrisy if the exact same people who voted for Tavares in that poll are now rating him low. It's not hypocrisy if people who didn't vote in that poll are now criticizing him.

Even if you don't agree with Tavares being ranked in the top 10 and I agree a poll on HF is no where any scientific, I'm betting there are some people who have changed their opinion about him now that he plays in Toronto, compared to that time of the poll when he was still a member of the Islanders.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Toronto is the biggest hockey market.
Sportsnet knows which side their bread is buttered on and what gives them ratings.
Can’t really blame them for overhyping the Leaf players. But there’s no defensible argument for ranking Matthews number 5. None.

They only ranked him #5 among centres based on the way they collected the data. They didn't all of the sudden say let's hype up Matthews even more just because he plays in Toronto.

 

[kujo31]

Toronto is the biggest hockey market.
Sportsnet knows which side their bread is buttered on and what gives them ratings.
Can’t really blame them for overhyping the Leaf players. But there’s no defensible argument for ranking Matthews number 5. None.

Outside of the fact that this is a statical analysis.
If you wanna pretend there is some bias then go ahead like it matters

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Even if you don't agree with Tavares being ranked in the top 10 and I agree a poll on HF is no where any scientific, I'm betting there are some people who have changed their opinion about him now that he plays in Toronto, compared to that time of the poll when he was still a member of the Islanders.

Right. Probably Islanders fans, who have an argument for being bitter and probably aren't too fond of him right now.

But to act like there's this widespread changing of opinion about him from the other 29 clubs not named Toronto or New York is silly, especially when your entire proof seems to be a poll where 61 people out of a possible 110,000+ voted for him.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Right. Probably Islanders fans, who have an argument for being bitter and probably aren't too fond of him right now.

But to act like there's this widespread changing of opinion about him from the other 29 clubs not named Toronto or New York is silly, especially when your entire proof seems to be a poll where 61 people out of a possible 110,000+ voted for him.

Still that poll is an example where Leafs fans can claim the opinion of where Tavares ranks was a lot different before he signed with them. That's why some say there is a bias when ranking Leafs players on here.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Still that poll is an example where Leafs fans can claim the opinion of where Tavares ranks was a lot different before he signed with them. That's why some say there is a bias when ranking Leafs players on here.

Oh f*** sakes, it’s a really crappy example. You have a whopping 61 people voting. That is such an insignificant number. I can’t believe this needs to be explained.

If anything, the pro leaf bias is out in full force. Especially when you consider the posters, such as yourself, claiming that people aren’t giving Matthews their due on the first page of this thread and the media sites like TSN and Sportsnet that pander to their Toronto Market.

Are you actually with a straight face, say this list is valid with Matthews at number five but Vincent Trotchek over Tyler Seguin ?

It’s simple: Auston Matthews has done f*** all based on last season to claim that he’s the fifth best center in the NHL. It’s really easy: there were players who flat out produced Matthews or had a better PPG.

Can he get there, yes. I don’t think many people are denying that. But please, for the love of god, stop saying it’s because everyone hates the Leafs for disagreeing.

 

[kujo31]

Isn't this a statistical comparison of centres, as opposed to a subjective ranking? If so, why are there people arguing that any player is ranked too high/low? Have you found a mistake in the calculations? If not, at most, the only argument you may have is that the statistical information being considered is flawed.

Or is it just the usual knee-jerk reaction that some of you are known for, based on your own subjective feelings?

I wonder which is more likely...

Exactly why this is some opinions are so funny,
When you post something completely based on statistics and people still think someone is rated to high you know they have a problem and a bias to that player. Because otherwise they make their own statistical analysis.

NHL rated Mathews top 5, tsn name him top 10 player in the NHL, the hockey news too.
You take out opinion and rank them purely based on many statistics. He is still top 5

Hf boards is bais obviously

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Still that poll is an example where Leafs fans can claim the opinion of where Tavares ranks was a lot different before he signed with them. That's why some say there is a bias when ranking Leafs players on here.

Funny thing is if you look at the votes, there were barely any Leaf fans who thought he was the 4th best center. Most of the Leaf fans I saw in that poll voted for Matthews.

So couldn't you say the reverse? That now that he's a Leaf, suddenly Leaf fans think more of him than they did prior to him signing?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Funny thing is if you look at the votes, there were barely any Leaf fans who thought he was the 4th best center. Most of the Leaf fans I saw in that poll voted for Matthews.

So couldn't you say the reverse? That now that he's a Leaf, suddenly Leaf fans think more of him than they did prior to him signing?

I will admit voting for Matthews in those polls, however I'm sure it wasn't only Leafs fans voting for their own player.

Personally speaking I always liked Tavares as a player and I remember thinking to myself when Stamkos re-signed in Tampa Bay I was not upset since I thought Tavares would have been a better option if he was to become a UFA.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Oh **** sakes, it’s a really crappy example. You have a whopping 61 people voting. That is such an insignificant number. I can’t believe this needs to be explained.

If anything, the pro leaf bias is out in full force. Especially when you consider the posters, such as yourself, claiming that people aren’t giving Matthews their due on the first page of this thread and the media sites like TSN and Sportsnet that pander to their Toronto Market.

Are you actually with a straight face, say this list is valid with Matthews at number five but Vincent Trotchek over Tyler Seguin ?

It’s simple: Auston Matthews has done **** all based on last season to claim that he’s the fifth best center in the NHL. It’s really easy: there were players who flat out produced Matthews or had a better PPG.

Can he get there, yes. I don’t think many people are denying that. But please, for the love of god, stop saying it’s because everyone hates the Leafs for disagreeing.

Blame Sportsnet and their data for ranking Trotchek over Seguin, that has nothing to do with Matthews.

I will also say again if media like TSN are always pro Maple Leafs, tell me how come Phil Kessel was always ranked so low on their top 50 lists during his time in Toronto?

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Are those reasons because he plays in Toronto?

Tavares is ranked 12th despite being widely considered to be a top ten center and better than Matthews.

This is a statistical analysis. There is no bias.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Tavares is ranked 12th despite being widely considered to be a top ten center and better than Matthews.

This is a statistical analysis. There is no bias.

One thing I know, is 92 point kopitar is better than 64 point matthews.

 

[Cellee]

I think Scheifele had more points in the first round last year than Matthews has had in two years.