Sportsnet: Detroit scouting Weiss heavily

[last_sd]

Jurco+Pulkkinen+Cleary+Mursak+2nd

for

Weiss+Kopecky+Fleischmann

I don't think that gets it done.

Weiss will probably cost Jurco + 2nd
Leaving it to Kopecky + Fleisch for Cleray(cap dump) + Mursak(12~13th forward) + Pulkkinen (B~C level prospect)

 

[RedWingsNow*]

We don't need a billion forwards.
Weiss, Flieschmann and Kopecky?
Wouldn't that put us in cap hell?

I loved Kopecky when he was here. But Babcock would use him as a center, where he sucks... and he's not worth $4M a year at Wing, either.

Weiss is soft. No thanks.

 

[pdd]

QQuincey

I don't think that gets it done.

Weiss will probably cost Jurco + 2nd
Leaving it to Kopecky + Fleisch for Cleray(cap dump) + Mursak(12~13th forward) + Pulkkinen (B~C level prospect)

I think Mursak alone could get Kopecky, assuming he still has his legs and his fire. He was projected to have the same kind of upside as Emmerton (probable third liner, possible second liner) and at his age and Kopecky's contract/role, I think that's something a rebuilding Florida team would seriously consider.

Which brings us to Pulkkinen+Cleary for Fleischmann. It's established that if this deal is going down they have to be taking back cap. Actually I did forget to account for Weiss' cap hit in my new deal, so more would probably have to be added (or Florida would simply have to retain some or all of Weiss' hit.)

The Wings right now have a lot of defensemen. Kronwall, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Quincey, White, Colaiacovo, Huskins, Lashoff.

Maybe you send one of them away in the deal also. Q, White, and Cola all have the right kind of cap hits.

Maybe include both Q and White and get Kuba back to even out the value and cap hits, and to give the Wings a defensive guy.

So it's now...

Quincey, White, Cleary, Mursak, Jurco, Pulkkinen, 2nd

for

Weiss, Fleischmann, Kopecky, Kuba

Florida adds some solid futures, a couple decent young-esque defensemen, and a grinder who at times can play hockey. No, seriously.

In return, Detroit gets the defensive defenseman they have wanted for a while, they get a mid-six Kopecky and top-six Fleischmann, and they get top-line center (?) Stephen Weiss.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

These deals are way too complex. This isn't the Florida Marlins they are trading with, lets get real here people.

 

[garry1221]

We don't need a billion forwards.
Weiss, Flieschmann and Kopecky?
Wouldn't that put us in cap hell?

I loved Kopecky when he was here. But Babcock would use him as a center, where he sucks... and he's not worth $4M a year at Wing, either.

Weiss is soft. No thanks.

This. If we could cut the fat while picking weiss up, I could maybe see something happening. Same goes for fleischmann. I don't see either happening. Adding two players, we still need to trade off 3 - 4 forwards at least. If we trade for weiss, it would be to solidify a third scoring line. But as you said, he'd be more of the same. I have to shake my head at these fantasy lineups. Are we trying to solidify our top six by acquiring legit top six C's??? The proverbial fat I mentioned earlier I don't think would net us either weiss or fleishmann.

 

[Bench]

Pure conjecture, but...

It's possible Florida knows Weiss wants to test the market and is trying to leverage something out of him. In that scenario, they maybe know Detroit is a market Weiss would agree to waive and join. And in that scenario, a bidding war isn't likely, and subsequently the price will be reasonable.

Plus, that SCREAMS Holland move. He wouldn't sell the farm and a guy like Weiss, but he'd sure as hell gamble on a few B prospects to bring in a proven veteran. It's not that far off from the original Bertuzzi from Florida trade.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

I'm going to be completely honest, I'm not that familiar with his game. Florida is a team that I really don't care to follow. I've seen him play maybe a handful of times, but not enough to have a fair opinion. I know that his name has come in past years as a real underrated player and his numbers have been fairly impressive, but how versatile is he? Can he play center and wing? Can he be a legit 1st/2nd line guy? Defensively?

I'm a bit weary of Florida stars (I'm sure you guys can think of at least 2 reasons for that - Calgary connection.)

But at this point in time it's clear this team could benefit from more forward talent. Fil is not playing at the level we had envisioned and can we really count on Franzen and Bert at this point in time?

 

[ricky0034]

I hate the entire concept of trading for Weiss

I mean....let's even ignore everything else here

where does he even slot in? do you play him on the third line? the Wings don't have the Wingers for three scoring lines,especially when you consider that a trade for Weiss would probably have either Filppula or Tatar going the other way,and what about Helm? he's too good to be playing for like 10 minutes/night. do you put Datsyuk and Zetterberg together and play him on the second line? that's even worse,not having Datsyuk and Zetterberg centering their own lines absolutely kills this teams depth even with Weiss

 

[Run the Jewels]

I hate the entire concept of trading for Weiss

I mean....let's even ignore everything else here

where does he even slot in? do you play him on the third line? the Wings don't have the Wingers for three scoring lines,especially when you consider that a trade for Weiss would probably have either Filppula or Tatar going the other way,and what about Helm? he's too good to be playing for like 10 minutes/night. do you put Datsyuk and Zetterberg together and play him on the second line? that's even worse,not having Datsyuk and Zetterberg centering their own lines absolutely kills this teams depth even with Weiss

I think this post sums it up nicely. We need a stud d-man first and foremost. If we are going after a forward it needs to be a guy who plays on the wing and is a goal scorer. Weiss has scored more than Filppula, however with that being said I don't think there's a clear fit. He doesn't have size so Babs will stick him on the 3rd line, probably at center. I guess if Wings management is seriously concerned about whether Helm will be able to return to form then making a play for Weiss makes sense. I hope that's not he case, but even if it is I'd still be more comfortable giving Riley Sheahan a shot in the Detroit lineup first to see what he can do. Then if Sheahan isn't ready you can go on to plan b.

 

[caseygraves]

This story is completly wrong... the scouts are there to look at Tomas Fleischmann and Shawn Matthias... to see if we should trade future assets to get old assets back again...

 

[SoupNazi]

Scary thought......Maybe they're actually scouting Kopecky and Fleischmann

Fleischmann would be a decent pickup. If Holland brings back Kopecky, though...

 

[RedMenace]

I hate the entire concept of trading for Weiss

I mean....let's even ignore everything else here

where does he even slot in? do you play him on the third line? the Wings don't have the Wingers for three scoring lines,especially when you consider that a trade for Weiss would probably have either Filppula or Tatar going the other way,and what about Helm? he's too good to be playing for like 10 minutes/night. do you put Datsyuk and Zetterberg together and play him on the second line? that's even worse,not having Datsyuk and Zetterberg centering their own lines absolutely kills this teams depth even with Weiss

He'd likely be the 2nd line center:

Franzen-Zetterberg-Brunner
Datsyuk-Weiss-Filppula/Tatar/Whoever's left that isn't named Samuelsson or Cleary

Helm on the 3rd, Andersson/Sheahan/Emmerton on the 4th. Not a bad bit of center depth, really.

 

[ZDH]

Yuck.

Throw the farm at Kulikov, **** Weiss.

 

[Hush]

To Detroit
F Stephen Weiss
D Dimitri Kulikov

To Florida
F Valtteri Filppula
D Jakub Kindl
2nd Round Draft Pick 2013

 

[SoupNazi]

To Detroit
F Stephen Weiss
D Dimitri Kulikov

To Florida
F Valtteri Filppula
D Jakub Kindl
2nd Round Draft Pick 2013

Not going to do it.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Kulikov is the only player I'd dump assets into. Fleischmann interests me greatly as well.

 

[Winger98]

I hate the entire concept of trading for Weiss

I mean....let's even ignore everything else here

where does he even slot in? do you play him on the third line? the Wings don't have the Wingers for three scoring lines,especially when you consider that a trade for Weiss would probably have either Filppula or Tatar going the other way,and what about Helm? he's too good to be playing for like 10 minutes/night. do you put Datsyuk and Zetterberg together and play him on the second line? that's even worse,not having Datsyuk and Zetterberg centering their own lines absolutely kills this teams depth even with Weiss

Draper routinely got 13-15 minutes a game and that's when we had Fedorov, Yzerman, and Larionov ahead of him. If we brought in someone like Weiss to anchor that third line center spot, Helm could still get about the same ice time as he gets now, especially with the apparent increase in special teams play.

And I think a trade for Weiss is probably around the Jurco & a second mentioned elsewhere. It won't hurt our immediate depth on the wing.

 

[Kiddington]

Weiss would be the kind of complimentary move worth making if this team were actually, you know, a contender. Shore up some depth down the middle, 2nd/3rd lines, etc. As it stands...

But hey, whatever, let's throw away perfectly good assets in a year when we're probably not going to do anything anyway. Hey, at least then we couldn't accuse Holland of not being proactive!

 

[Winger98]

Weiss would be the kind of complimentary move worth making if this team were actually, you know, a contender. Shore up some depth down the middle, 2nd/3rd lines, etc. As it stands...

But hey, whatever, let's throw away perfectly good assets in a year when we're probably not going to do anything anyway. Hey, at least then we couldn't accuse Holland of not being proactive!

Or when your top center is aging and has rumors of returning to Russia in a year. Unless you're viewing Weiss as a rental, which I'm not sure anyone else is.

 

[Kiddington]

Or when your top center is aging and has rumors of returning to Russia in a year. Unless you're viewing Weiss as a rental, which I'm not sure anyone else is.

At this point, why wouldn't I? He's a UFA, coming to a team trending downwards. Unless we overpay to a ridiculous degree (for a guy that's topped 60 points a grand total of two times), is it really a given that he stays? That's a gamble for sure.

In any other year, I'd be fine with it... but this time around, I dunno.

 

[doublejack]

Rebuilding teams are shooting themselves in the foot when they trade prospects for aging veterans. So a Jurco for Weiss trade is absolutely going in the wrong direction. That kind of deal would just provide more anti-Holland ammunition, and once again prove it's time for him to step aside.

This ship is taking on water... attempting to plug the hole with a bandaid isn't going to do jack. It's time to let this one go into the sea and build anew.

 

[RedMenace]

Rebuilding teams are shooting themselves in the foot when they trade prospects for aging veterans. So a Jurco for Weiss trade is absolutely going in the wrong direction. That kind of deal would just provide more anti-Holland ammunition, and once again prove it's time for him to step aside.

This ship is taking on water... attempting to plug the hole with a bandaid isn't going to do jack. It's time to let this one go into the sea and build anew.

Jurco has talent and potential, but he will not be the Wings' savior...

... then again, neither will Weiss, but he provides a little more of what they need NOW while still keeping the better of the prospects around.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Rebuilding teams are shooting themselves in the foot when they trade prospects for aging veterans. So a Jurco for Weiss trade is absolutely going in the wrong direction. That kind of deal would just provide more anti-Holland ammunition, and once again prove it's time for him to step aside.

This ship is taking on water... attempting to plug the hole with a bandaid isn't going to do jack. It's time to let this one go into the sea and build anew.

I am fully against a full rebuild as we currently have two of the best 15 players in the world on this roster. Holland needs to start making some moves to give this team a chance to make and then to compete in the playoffs.

 

[doublejack]

Jurco has talent and potential, but he will not be the Wings' savior...

... then again, neither will Weiss, but he provides a little more of what they need NOW while still keeping the better of the prospects around.

I'm not saying Jurco will be a savior or anything, but he has the potential to be a productive top six forward in the NHL. If Weiss wasn't knocking on 30's door I wouldn't object... but you don't give up futures for a player who won't be around - or at least won't be a contributor, by the time the team is good again.

I am fully against a full rebuild as we currently have two of the best 15 players in the world on this roster. Holland needs to start making some moves to give this team a chance to make and then to compete in the playoffs.

Sorry, but it is far too late to take this position. When we still had Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart on D then sure, the core is there and you stock up on some players to make a run. But now? Way too late. Way.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are still very good, but they are getting long in the tooth. Plus, outside of that duo and possibly Brunner, the team is mediocre to crappy. This is the weakest the Wings have been in 20+ years. Whether you want it or not, a rebuild is happening. The longer it is delayed, the messier it will be, too.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

the only reason it make sense to trade for weiss is if we plan to use filppula in a trade or dont plan to resign him(or hope to not have to)

weiss is better then filppula and going forward would be a great #2 centre behind zetterberg if/when datsyuk leaves.