Sportsnet: Detroit scouting Weiss heavily

Heaton

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Feb 13, 2004
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I just don't understand this. I like Weiss and all, but its not like this team is bereft of skilled, two-way centers. And with all the other needs we have? A top 4 defensive defenseman? A hard point shot? Size in the top 6? Why waste assets on a guy like this when so much more needs to be done. And that's not even considering the fact that he's an impending UFA.

The only way I wouldn't mind this if it were basically a Filppula for Weiss swap, where we throw in a mid-level prospect OR a few mid-to-late picks (not necessarily from the 2013 draft) OR a depth guy or two.

I disagree. We need defense but we also need skill up front as we have very little. Depending on what the price would be we could use Weiss or any 60pt guy. Last year vs. the Preds we needed offense more than anything.
 

DatsyukToZetterberg

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Apr 3, 2011
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I disagree. We need defense but we also need skill up front as we have very little. Depending on what the price would be we could use Weiss or any 60pt guy. Last year vs. the Preds we needed offense more than anything.

True but what some of the Panther fans want for him is crazy (an A prospect in the mold of Nyquist or Jarnkrok). I understand valuing your player and all but he's a UFA to be that's off to his worst start of his career. I could see us offering something like Jurco+2nd but not much more then that.
 

WesNichols14

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Nov 22, 2011
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I get that Jurco is not playing great but he's one of those guys I think is going to be really really good in a few years. his hands and size are something you cant ignore and the guy is a winner, it seems like every team he is on contends. I would be more up for trading Pulkkinen and a 2nd rather than Jurco. but in the end we don't need Weiss we need a Defenseman.

unless they are up for a trade of, Cleary, Bertuzzi, Samuelsson, and Abdelkader, or Miller for Weiss and we'll even toss in like Quine and a 3rd round pick:sarcasm:
 

JimLaheyprobert

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Nov 19, 2012
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I know this was already posted on the rumor forum but figured we could have a discussion on it since most of that forum is hypothetical value. Kypreos and Mckenzie have both tweeted that the Wings have been making calls and scouting Stephen Weiss from Florida. Wings scouts have apparently been to 5 panthers game the past month including two AFTER the Ellerby trade.

Your thoughts? I'm not sure how I feel about this move, as he certainly isnt enough to elevate this team to a favorite, but I think if he can be signed to an extension he may be worth acquiring. A couple people have speculated trading impending UFAs Flip-Weiss, and while I prefer Flip, would not be opposed to it as Weiss has proven to be able to carry a line as a center.

(theoretically healthy roster that will probably never happen)
Brunner-Zetterberg-Franzen
Tatar-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi
Nyquist-Weiss-Sammuelson
Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo

A more realistic option would be to keep Filppula and send Tatar/Nyquist and a pick, for a roster similar to

Brunner-Zetterberg-Franzen
Filppula-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi
Nyquist/Tatar-Weiss-Sammuelson
Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo


Would you like to see us make a deal for him? What would you want to give up.

Weiss is an outstanding player who is simply playing on a god awful team, he deffinatly is not a third line center, he is a second line center on a great team. He acctually may be better then Fillpula.
 

JimLaheyprobert

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Nov 19, 2012
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I also know someone who is family with Weise and i have herd them say he really wants to play in Detroit or Toronto as he has family in Toronto and wouldn't mind playing closer to come. He also likes the history of detroit and wants to play with better players.
 

detredWINgs

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Jan 1, 2004
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I disagree. We need defense but we also need skill up front as we have very little. Depending on what the price would be we could use Weiss or any 60pt guy. Last year vs. the Preds we needed offense more than anything.

When healthy, we do not need offense as much as we need defense. The playoffs are irrelevant at this point - we should be talking about winning games. And in that respect, defense is what needs to be upgraded. Unless you honestly think Cola and Smith coming back is actually going to considerably elevate our defense.

But if you want to talk playoffs - yes, we needed help last year, but that had as much to do with the fact that our bottom six was wholly ineffective (much of which was due to the loss of Helm) and our top six lacked diversity, which we still lack. If we're going to be making a trade for a forward, what is the point of trading for yet another average-sized, not particularly physical, two-way guy when what we really need is a sniper or a power forward, etc.?
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Depending on cost this can be a great move, I don't see it, but we would have to wait and see what the damage is and if an extension is in place. A move for Weiss would likely signal the end of Filppula in a Wings jersey which is a good or bad thing depending on which camp you're in as far as his extension.
 

last_sd

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Jun 9, 2007
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Depending on cost this can be a great move, I don't see it, but we would have to wait and see what the damage is and if an extension is in place. A move for Weiss would likely signal the end of Filppula in a Wings jersey which is a good or bad thing depending on which camp you're in as far as his extension.

We could retain both Flip and Weiss. It just means that we have to do core + cheap young player method.

FORWARDS
Damien Brunner ($2.500m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Stephen Weiss ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($5.000m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Need someone here
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m)
Ian White ($3.000m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jimmy Howard ($4.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,251,212; BONUSES: $160,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $4,208,788
------

So we have to trade Sammy, Bert, Eaves.

* Weiss will probably cost 4.5~5.5
* Flip will probably cost 4.0~5.0
* Howard will probably cost 3.5~5.0
* Brunner I am not sure at all so I put him on 2.5

* So 4.2M space for top 4 D, 13th forward and 7th D.
* We could save money by trading Abderkader and replacing him with cheaper player, which would give us 1M more room
* We could save even more money by trading Q and signing cheaper 3rd line D (Huskins? Lashoff?) which will save another 2M


NOT SAYING THIS IS A SMART THING to do. Just saying it is possible to have both Flip and Weiss. I personally don't want both Flip and Weiss. I would want more physical goal scoring winger (Perry maybe?).
Of course Holland will never trade any of the players I just mentioned other than Eaves so point is moot.
 
Last edited:

Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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We could retain both Flip and Weiss. It just means that we have to do core + cheap young player method.

Why don't we? Tatar is showing that he can definitely handle the NHL. We've got a bunch of youngsters knocking on the door on defense and offense. Hell, people are saying Jarnkrok might be ready as early as next season.

It's always seemed to me that such a strategy would be ideal. Looking at the difference between a 7 mill player and a 3.5 mill player, I'd rather have 1 Datsyuk than 2 Filppulas. I'd rather have 1 Lidstrom than 2 Kronwalls or 2 Ericssons. You go out and you get real top end talent, then you stock the rest with the kids you have faith in. Hopefully, the kids pan out to about what you hoped for, they get a ton of great experience, and you have a solid team.
 

Cyborg Yzerberg

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Nov 8, 2007
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The move would make more sense in two instances:

1.) Z and Pavs played together, and still played together well.

2.) We were a contender.

If we could acquire him without throwing the farm at him, I'd be okay with it, but that doesn't seem likely.
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
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We could retain both Flip and Weiss. It just means that we have to do core + cheap young player method.

FORWARDS
Damien Brunner ($2.500m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Stephen Weiss ($5.000m) / Valtteri Filppula ($5.000m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m)
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Need someone here
Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) / Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m)
Ian White ($3.000m) / Kyle Quincey ($3.775m)
GOALTENDERS
Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m)
Jimmy Howard ($4.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,251,212; BONUSES: $160,000
CAP SPACE (19-man roster): $4,208,788
------

So we have to trade Sammy, Bert, Eaves.

* Weiss will probably cost 4.5~5.5
* Flip will probably cost 4.0~5.0
* Howard will probably cost 3.5~5.0
* Brunner I am not sure at all so I put him on 2.5

* So 4.2M space for top 4 D, 13th forward and 7th D.
* We could save money by trading Abderkader and replacing him with cheaper player, which would give us 1M more room
* We could save even more money by trading Q and signing cheaper 3rd line D (Huskins? Lashoff?) which will save another 2M


NOT SAYING THIS IS A SMART THING to do. Just saying it is possible to have both Flip and Weiss. I personally don't want both Flip and Weiss. I would want more physical goal scoring winger (Perry maybe?).
Of course Holland will never trade any of the players I just mentioned other than Eaves so point is moot.

You left out Smith. In any event it all depends on what they want to do. Right now paying Filppula anything over 4 million is insanity.
 

LarKing

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Sep 2, 2012
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Michigan
Brunner-Zetterberg-Franzen
Filppula-Datsyuk-Tatar
Samuelsson-Weiss-Bertuzzi/Nyquist
Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo

That is an awesome line-up. I'd be all for acquiring Weiss if we don't have to give up our best prospects/1st. Maybe something like Jurco/Pulkinnen + 2nd + Eaves/Miller. More secondary scoring would really help out the D as well.
 

last_sd

Registered User
Jun 9, 2007
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Unless you traded him for Weiss, "Need Someone Here" = Smith.

You left out Smith. In any event it all depends on what they want to do. Right now paying Filppula anything over 4 million is insanity.

I knew I forgot someone! Yes Smith will go in there.

Why don't we? Tatar is showing that he can definitely handle the NHL. We've got a bunch of youngsters knocking on the door on defense and offense. Hell, people are saying Jarnkrok might be ready as early as next season.

It's always seemed to me that such a strategy would be ideal. Looking at the difference between a 7 mill player and a 3.5 mill player, I'd rather have 1 Datsyuk than 2 Filppulas. I'd rather have 1 Lidstrom than 2 Kronwalls or 2 Ericssons. You go out and you get real top end talent, then you stock the rest with the kids you have faith in. Hopefully, the kids pan out to about what you hoped for, they get a ton of great experience, and you have a solid team.

I agree. Now a days it's about having core star players + young players on their ELC or "bridge contract".

Brunner-Zetterberg-Franzen
Filppula-Datsyuk-Tatar
Samuelsson-Weiss-Bertuzzi/Nyquist
Abdelkader-Helm-Tootoo

That is an awesome line-up. I'd be all for acquiring Weiss if we don't have to give up our best prospects/1st. Maybe something like Jurco/Pulkinnen + 2nd + Eaves/Miller. More secondary scoring would really help out the D as well.

I thought about that too, (using Datsyuk, Z, Weiss and Helm in C)
Only problem I have with this line up is that our 4th line is way over payed if you use them this way.
Datsyuk, Z, Weiss line will each play 15~18 min. And Helm line will almost never play. Since we are paying Helm 2M+ and Abs and Tootoo 1.8M+ they should play more than 10mins per game

Where as if we use Z, D line around 18~20 (with Weiss centering D) 3rd and 4th line will play a bit more.
 

LeighDx59

Registered User
Nov 23, 2011
2,842
756
Detroit, MI
Weiss would be a nice addition. Should keep Pavel and Filppula on the wing and make our top six even better.

Filppula - Zetterberg - Brunner
Franzen - Weiss - Datsyuk
 

CloneHakanPlease*

Guest
Weiss is an outstanding player who is simply playing on a god awful team, he deffinatly is not a third line center, he is a second line center on a great team. He acctually may be better then Fillpula.

I agree. I was going the Philidephia/Pittsburgh 2008 route of having three legit scoring lines
 

pdd

Registered User
Feb 7, 2010
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4
Scary thought......Maybe they're actually scouting Kopecky and Fleischmann

I would gladly welcome those two back for a fair price. Remember, Florida would need to take back cap in this deal (They'd be $4m under the floor if they gave them up without taking cap back) so maybe something like this:

Jurco+Cleary+Miller+2nd for Kopecky+Fleischmann

Franzen/Zetterberg/Brunner
Fleischmann/Datsyuk/Tatar
Kopecky/Filppula/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Emmerton
Bertuzzi
Eaves
Mursak

Or maybe we end up with:

Jurco+Pulkkinen+Cleary+Mursak+2nd

for

Weiss+Kopecky+Fleischmann

and the lines can be this:

Franzen/Zetterberg/Brunner
Filppula/Datsyuk/Tatar
Fleischmann/Weiss/Samuelsson
Abby/Helm/Tootoo
Emmerton
Bertuzzi
Eaves
Miller
 

Hammerheart

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Aug 1, 2011
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We have three good Centers. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Helm. You can count Filppula if you want but I think it's clear at this point and time he is better as a Winger if we want a scoring line.

This.

I think if we can get him by sending Tatar and Franzen, we'd see a line more similar to this:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner
Filppula-Weiss-Samuelsson
Nyquist-Helm-Cleary
Miller-Abdelkader-Tootoo (Eaves/Emmerton)
 

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