TSN: Some Powerful Words from Bob Mackenzie about Liljgren and Sandin

[Holymakinaw]

I mean, I was pretty clearly talking about the era's before these guys were even drafted. Your post just reinforces my point. Look how much success they've had since they decided to take it slowly. Only one who wasn't was Kadri and Rielly but they were just too skilled. No way do guys like Johnsson, Moore, Gauthier, Brown, hell maybe even Dermott become as good as they have under previous managements.

They'd all either be given up on before they could develop into anything (GOAT, Johnsson) or rushed into the NHL like they did with Kadri and Rielly.

So what's the point in referring to old regimes that way? They're not running the show any more, are they? So what does what they did have to do with anything today? We're a different team, with different management, players and coaches. And we've been doing things RIGHT for a bit now. And it's starting to pay dividends.

 

[LeafSteel]

I respect Bob, and think he is the most connected and informed insider of the whole bunch.

Having said that, while I respect his opinion, I don't take it as gospel. He is stating his opinion, which he is entitled to.

Personally, just because Bob has an opinion on someone/something, shouldn't change anything the Leafs do. The plan was to plug Liljegren in to a few games last season, before he got hurt.

Based on how he has performed returning from injury, I don't see why he can't get into a few games at the beginning of next season, before the returning pro's are all back into top NHL shape. Give him sheltered 3rd line minutes for 10 games and let's see what we've got.

......... I'm sure Bob would understand.......... not that his (or anyone else's, actually) implicit approval is required or even cared for........

 

[dimi78]

No I don't, but why risk it? Why risk it when we can send him back for 6 months like they did with Dermott and make sure he is ready.

Or you can put him in the NHL with half the defense retooled and the pressure of being a D in Toronto. He'll be the guy who will fix the defense, and then he will make some boneheaded plays which fans will take out on him. For a guy who seems to have taken time to get his head about himself, I think it's better to make sure he is ready.

Nonsense. You never know who's truly ready to be a successful NHL player until they actually play in the NHL. You seem to think that you don't develop players at the NHL level well let me tell you now that's the #1 thing teams do that actually ruins young players is if you don't develop youth at the NHL level.

This whole rushing prospects, overcooking youth thing is a myth. NHL ready is really just one question. Is young prospect physically strong enough to play his game in the NHL that's it. Actual development starts at game 1 in the NHL for NHL caliber talent.

If the organization has no vision of Liljgren taking his development to the NHL next season they should seriously consider trading him.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

Rielly wasn't a legit top 4 d-man until his D+6 year. Dermott is entering his D+5 year and has seen little to no top 4 minutes. The star defencemen from the 2012 draft (Trouba, Dumba, Rielly etc) have all been developing until just recently. Based on this, I would say Liligren would need at least 2 years of playing sheltered minutes in the NHL, maybe even a third, before he can be relied on in the top 4. Sandin the same, if not more.

I don't understand how some people think that these young defencemen can step in and fill the top 4 roles and eat up the minutes that Gardiner, Zaitsev, and Hainsey did.

 

[IPS]

Discrediting media members? lmao. There's discrediting and then there's calling them out on their clickbait BS. Clickbait BS happens to be more conducive to growing their platforms than honesty and integrity based reporting.

 

[Macallan18]

I would think Leafs camp might be interesting. My bet is that Lily is ready and can play better than Hainsey Zaitsev Polak etc on the right side.

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Liljegren looks like he should be ready for this season, but not Sandin yet

Agreed, especially if you look at Liljegren’s advanced stats this season. He’s pretty much an elite AHL defender playing against the other teams toughest competition. He’s at the stage where if he looks good in camp and he looks like one of our 6 best defencemen then keep him.

 

[Cor]

Agreed, especially if you look at Liljegren’s advanced stats this season. He’s pretty much an elite AHL defender playing against the other teams toughest competition. He’s at the stage where if he looks good in camp and he looks like one of our 6 best defencemen then keep him.

Essentially yeah.

That said, if he spends another half season for example with the Marlies, that doesn’t hurt either.

Ease Liljegren into the NHL this season, and then ease Sandin in the following season.

 

[grapes55]

Honestly, the more that I think about it, the more I would rather plan to keep Liljegren down to start the season and lean towards keeping Zaitsev. I think with Z and Gardiner leaving, that's too big of a hole to fill and I'm not sure if we'd be able to shelter Liljegren enough for him to be successful. Not only that but Muzzin has shown that he can be an effective partner for Z and keep him above water.

This is with the assumption that we do not acquire another top 4 D in the offseason

 

[al secord]

I'll let coaches and management deal with our prospects. Not fans or Bob MacKenzie.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Honestly, the more that I think about it, the more I would rather plan to keep Liljegren down to start the season and lean towards keeping Zaitsev. I think with Z and Gardiner leaving, that's too big of a hole to fill and I'm not sure if we'd be able to shelter Liljegren enough for him to be successful. Not only that but Muzzin has shown that he can be an effective partner for Z and keep him above water.

This is with the assumption that we do not acquire another top 4 D in the offseason

Not much point in keeping a guy that doesn't want to be here.

 

[grapes55]

Not much point in keeping a guy that doesn't want to be here.

Yeah that's true, if we can find another guy to play top 4 at least then i think we should be fine

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah that's true, if we can find another guy to play top 4 at least then i think we should be fine

I sure hope so, that depth chart's looking pretty thin right about now. But Marleau wanting out makes me feel better about our chances to cobble something together, we'll see.

 

[tmlms13]

Getting rid of marleau too, which is a tall order, might get them the space needed to resign Gardiner if Marner stays under 11. And AJ/KK have reasonable deals.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Hainsey back on a 1 year deal

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Hainsey is not taking a pay cut to stay here. He started out slow in camp but he really came on over season. Why would he take less then he could get elsewhere? I mean i would like him resigned for 1 more year at lower AAV but why would he? It does not make sense. and Gards is getting his retirement contract now. I think you have to be realistic here. Both of them are gone.

We need a couple younger guys at AHL level or ELC level around 22-24 to come in here for a couple years until our young guys are ready. Rollie would be a nice pickup from Carolina.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Hainsey is not taking a pay cut to stay here. He started out slow in camp but he really came on over season. Why would he take less then he could get elsewhere? I mean i would like him resigned for 1 more year at lower AAV but why would he? It does not make sense. and Gards is getting his retirement contract now. I think you have to be realistic here. Both of them are gone.

We need a couple younger guys at AHL level or ELC level around 22-24 to come in here for a couple years until our young guys are ready. Rollie would be a nice pickup from Carolina.

Well Hainsey is turning 40 during next season, so I don't suppose he's about to really cash in on the free market or anything. I think it's pretty realistic that we'll see him back, depending on what else happens with the defense.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Powerful words these days I guess means speaking the truth. Hes right. They arent powerful words though lol

 

[JayfromNB1219]

It’s reasonable to think that having both leading the Marlies for at least another half season is what is best.

That said, I think Liljegren could make the Leafs opening day lineup. Excelling at the AHL level, and with a good summer, and the Leafs having a hole or 3 on the right side, especially with Dermott out for the first two months or so.

I don't know, I would consider Borgman for that 3RHD spot (even on his off side) I feel like it's time to find out what we have with Borgman and Rosen (and not the leivo way where they just sit in the press box for a season, I am saying play them and really find out)...and until that is figured out, you won't hurt Lillegren or Sandin by letting them develop a little more with the Marlies

 

[thewave]

I don't know, I would consider Borgman for that 3RHD spot (even on his off side) I feel like it's time to find out what we have with Borgman and Rosen (and not the leivo way where they just sit in the press box for a season, I am saying play them and really find out)...and until that is figured out, you won't hurt Lillegren or Sandin by letting them develop a little more with the Marlies

I like playing the kids as well but we have paid big for Muzzin and probably want to not just waste that year on experimentation. This past season was the season for that... They should have traded Jake and then went from there.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I like playing the kids as well but we have paid big for Muzzin and probably want to not just waste that year on experimentation. This past season was the season for that... They should have traded Jake and then went from there.

I hear you...but experimentation has to be worked into a contending teams plans just as much as the rebuilding team...this team (even experimenting) has no excuse not to be a top 8 (assuming everyone they try fails hard) team in the Eastern Conference...so I hear what you are saying, I think there is a lot more wiggle room than you think though

 

[Brobust]

McKenzie is just saying that assuming they'll step in is a a bad assumption to make.

Sure they can surprise come training camp, but right now the leafs need to head into offseason without expecting that because if you do, then suddenly you're forced to play unripened prospects in NHL games. Which is something teams like Edmonton do.

It's the fair way to deal with 99% of prospects.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I don't know how ready our D prospects are, but it doesn't surprise me that we've circled the wagons and are now questioning BM.

The reality of needing to plug three holes on the blueline has many risks and is a bit too much reality for some, and hence, the need to shoot the messenger.

Hope they are ready, but not hard to see this as an area of large concern.

 

[TheProspector]

The best thing Mike Babcock can do is take a rag-tag, no-name D corps, and make it perform like a well oiled machine. He did it here with multiple groups, and he'll do it again this season.

It'll result in some strange usage, but it'll work. And we'll all get furious at him for deploying guys like Marincin as much as he does, but we'll still end up top-5 in GF while being defensively strong enough to remain competitive. He did in Detroit, and some great teams like Pittsburgh have won the cup multiple times on similar models.

I'm not concerned about this. Sandin and Liljegren will be Leafs soon enough. Maybe this year, maybe next year. We'll survive the first few months with Rosen, Lilly, Sandin, Holl, Lindren, Borgman, and whoever we pick up in UFA, which won't be no-one. It's a problem to solve for, but making this out to be a big deal is silly. Babs and Dubas will figure out a competitive solution.

 

[Pyrophorus]

For a couple of years now, I knew we needed to replace 3 dmen.

 

[BlueBaron]

One man's "Powerful words" are another man's obvious I guess. It would bizarre to count on more than 1 Marlie taking a job. Zaitsev creates a huge hole, especially with injuries.

You figure Dermott starts out injured so that's


Rielly
Muzzin
Borgman
(Dermott)

I suspect strongly Hainsey comes back. We need him and another guy at least.