TSN: Some Powerful Words from Bob Mackenzie about Liljgren and Sandin

[Pucker77]

I'd argue 13 minutes in the NHL has way more value to ultimate development than 22 minutes in the minors. Hardly a waste, and most young D men start on the third pairing as they learn, a natural progression. These kids aren't starting in the top 4.

That is a fair point. There are things that you can’t learn in the AHL, Babcocks system, game speed, etc.

However, at 20 years old I feel there is no need to throw him to the wolves in Toronto when the Leafs are desperate for defense and the team has Cup expectations. I would give him another year in the A, allow him to dominate, and give him top PP and PK duties to see how he works in different situations.

You are right though, if he plays on the Leafs in a limited capacity, it should not be considered a waste. That was poor wording on my part. I agree with whatever choice the team makes in regards to Liljegren, there are pros and cons with both choices, so make a decision and stand by it even if it goes sour.

 

[biotk]

Sandin and Liljegren were supposed to be brought up this season to get games but injuries derailed those plans so who knows.

Not really. After Liljegren got injured Dubas said that "we were looking at him to continue to improve and challenge here this season." With Gardiner, Dermott and Rosen all injured at the same time the Leafs still felt that Sandin was not ready.

 

[ULF_55]

is it unusual for draft plus 2 years to be given an opportunity?

 

[biotk]

is it unusual for draft plus 2 years to be given an opportunity?

Not unusual at all. However, each team is different and I don't think that this team is interested in bringing either up for a taste (as most teams do, especially having them play some games filling in as injury relief), but instead will be waiting until they are ready to fill a permanent roster spot. Waiting until he was ready for a permanent spot is what they did with Dermott who they viewed as a potential top-4, but was not the case with Holl who they viewed as a 6/7/8. They also have Marincin and Borgman who can fill in for injury relief.

 

[ULF_55]

Not unusual at all. However, each team is different and I don't think that this team is interested in bringing either up for a taste (as most teams do, especially having them play some games filling in as injury relief), but instead will be waiting until they are ready to fill a permanent roster spot. Waiting until he was ready for a permanent spot is what they did with Dermott who they viewed as a potential top-4, but was not the case with Holl who they viewed as a 6/7/8. They also have Marincin and Borgman who can fill in for injury relief.

Liljegren is supposed to be a top 1st. rounder.

I'd have no problem with him getting 3rd. pairing minutes in a sheltered role.

But that really depends on competent coaching.

 

[biotk]

Liljegren is supposed to be a top 1st. rounder.

I'd have no problem with him getting 3rd. pairing minutes in a sheltered role.

But that really depends on competent coaching.

Oh I think that both Liljegren and Sandin will enter the NHL in a sheltered role on the third pairing just as Dermott did who should be moving to the 2nd pairing soon. I just don't think that either will play games until management thinks that they are ready for a permanent roster spot. That might be this fall for one of them (I am doubtful). I don't think that Leafs will try them out with some test games (like Calgary did with Kylington and Andersson). And I don't think that either will be up and down like Anaheim did with Theodore because they thought he was almost good enough, but also didn't really have room for him. The Leafs will wait until they are pretty certain the player is ready and if there isn't room when one is ready they will make room.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Oh I think that both Liljegren and Sandin will enter the NHL in a sheltered role on the third pairing just as Dermott did who should be moving to the 2nd pairing soon. I just don't think that either will play games until management thinks that they are ready for a permanent roster spot. That might be this fall for one of them (I am doubtful). I don't think that Leafs will try them out with some test games (like Calgary did with Kylington and Andersson). And I don't think that either will be up and down like Anaheim did with Theodore because they thought he was almost good enough, but also didn't really have room for him. The Leafs will wait until they are pretty certain the player is ready and if there isn't room when one is ready they will make room.

neither cracks the lineup next season ...

 

[ponder]

Sandin is very unlikely to make the Leafs out of camp. Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott and Rosen are all ahead of him at LD - even if one of them plays on the right side, there’s still no room.

Liljegren has a good shot though. Hainsey’s a UFA, and sounds like we’re trying to deal Zaitsev. If Hainsey leaves and Zaitsev is dealt, our RD depth with any shot of making the NHL is Oz, Liljegren and ... that’s it. CRAZY weak. Even if we make a trade/signing for a top-4 RD, and move one of our LDs to the right side, there’d still be a spot wide open for one of Liljegren/Oz to take, and Liljegren definitely has a solid shot to beat out Oz in camp.

Edit: I totally missed that Oz went back to Russia. So if we deal Zaitsev and don’t re-sign Hainsey, Liljegren is pretty clearly the top RD in the organization.

 

[kb]

Sandin is very unlikely to make the Leafs out of camp. Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott and Rosen are all ahead of him at LD - even if one of them plays on the right side, there’s still no room.

Liljegren has a good shot though. Hainsey’s a UFA, and sounds like we’re trying to deal Zaitsev. If Hainsey leaves and Zaitsev is dealt, our RD depth with any shot of making the NHL is Oz, Liljegren and ... that’s it. CRAZY weak. Even if we make a trade/signing for a top-4 RD, and move one of our LDs to the right side, there’d still be a spot wide open for one of Liljegren/Oz to take, and Liljegren definitely has a solid shot to beat out Oz in camp.

Oz went back to Russia. So its Holl as the defacto #1 RD.

 

[ponder]

Oz went back to Russia. So its Holl as the defacto #1 RD.

Oh wow, I totally missed that. And IMO Liljegren will likely outplay Holl at camp.

I do think we’ll be acquiring an RD via trade/signing (possibly just re-signing Hainsey, who’s a lefty but very proven on the right side), and I also think one of our LDs will move to the right side (Dermott?), but that’d still leave a spot that’s basically Liljegren’s to lose.

 

[Gallagbi]

Oh wow, I totally missed that. And IMO Liljegren will likely outplay Holl at camp.

I do think we’ll be acquiring an RD via trade/signing (possibly just re-signing Hainsey, who’s a lefty but very proven on the right side), and I also think one of our LDs will move to the right side (Dermott?), but that’d still leave a spot that’s basically Liljegren’s to lose.

I don't think they'll keep Lilj around to be 7th D, but they would for Holl.

I expect you'll have Dermott, Hainsey, new RHD in the top 6. Don't think it'll be either or with Hainsey vs. acquiring a D.

 

[stickty111]

Liljegren is supposed to be a top 1st. rounder.

I'd have no problem with him getting 3rd. pairing minutes in a sheltered role.

But that really depends on competent coaching.

Which we don't have.

 

[pylon17]

At this rate... Borgman is my #7D next year. I like him (as a 6).

 

[Tak7]

What, exactly, is powerful, about Bob McKenzie saying the team need patience with their young prospects?

 

[ULF_55]

Which we don't have.

I am hoping the change in coaching encourages all the coaches to rethink their strategies.

 

[81Leafs50]

Not really. After Liljegren got injured Dubas said that "we were looking at him to continue to improve and challenge here this season." With Gardiner, Dermott and Rosen all injured at the same time the Leafs still felt that Sandin was not ready.

it was too late by then. Too late into the season. It was not a good time to bring up the kids. Games were too intense.