Solutions to Fix the Avs

[The Mars Volchenkov]

He's a pending UFA for god sakes. Throw money at him this summer if you want him that bad.

I get it, you trade for him and you have the best shot at signing him but that's no guarantee. Also he makes the team better for a couple months. If they need him that bad and have lost all faith in the D then this team isn't going anywhere. So we give up a potentially huge piece of our future to get marginally better for a couple months. Sounds like a fabulous trade off to me.

I would bet good money that whatever team acquires him would be re-signing him relatively quickly. Teams just don't make trades like that anymore without having talked to the agent first and knowing what the demands are. I'd be pretty stunned if he made it to UFA.

And really, I don't think it would cost nearly as much as some people are throwing around to trade for him, but that's just me.

 

[CobraAcesS]

It could happen of course. Teams were allowed to negotiate with Callahan's agent after Sather decided to move him. That's the one case where I can recall a pending UFA being willing to sign directly when traded.

Wasn't Burns a sign and trade on some level as well? Varly was as well

 

[Freudian]

Wasn't Burns a sign and trade on some level as well? Varly was as well

They were RFAs. They don't have the option of testing the market.

Here is the list of the biggest pending UFAs traded during season the most recent seasons:

2009/10
Kovalchuk to Devils

2012/13
Jagr to Boston
Roy to Canucks
Clowe to Rangers
Iginla to Pens

2013/14
Hemsky to Sens
Vanek to Islanders
Vanek to Habs
Gaborik to Kings
Moulson to Wild
Miller to Blues

Of these Kovalchuk eventually signed with Devils and Gaborik with the Kings. Kovalchuk did test the market on July 1st but he was fixated on getting a $100M contract and Devils was the only team that was willing to give it to him.

Some players with one season remaining after the season they were traded have signed an extensions with their new team (Bouwmeester, Pominville).

It's not that common that pending UFAs that are traded give up their UFA rights. Most of them want to see what is out there. Sometimes the team trading for them doesn't want to keep them and never planned to.

 

[InjuredChoker]

They were RFAs. They don't have the option of testing the market.

Here is the list of the biggest pending UFAs traded during season the most recent seasons:

2009/10
Kovalchuk to Devils

2012/13
Jagr to Boston
Roy to Canucks
Clowe to Rangers
Iginla to Pens

2013/14
Hemsky to Sens
Vanek to Islanders
Vanek to Habs
Gaborik to Kings
Moulson to Wild
Miller to Blues

Of these Kovalchuk eventually signed with Devils and Gaborik with the Kings. Kovalchuk did test the market on July 1st but he was fixated on getting a $100M contract and Devils was the only team that was willing to give it to him.

Some players with one season remaining after the season they were traded have signed an extensions with their new team (Bouwmeester, Pominville).

It's not that common that pending UFAs that are traded give up their UFA rights. Most of them want to see what is out there. Sometimes the team trading for them doesn't want to keep them and never planned to.

on bolded, the teams didn't really try to sign them or didn't try hard.

 

[CobraAcesS]

They were RFAs. They don't have the option of testing the market.

Here is the list of the biggest pending UFAs traded during season the most recent seasons:

2009/10
Kovalchuk to Devils

2012/13
Jagr to Boston
Roy to Canucks
Clowe to Rangers
Iginla to Pens

2013/14
Hemsky to Sens
Vanek to Islanders
Vanek to Habs
Gaborik to Kings
Moulson to Wild
Miller to Blues

Of these Kovalchuk eventually signed with Devils and Gaborik with the Kings. Kovalchuk did test the market on July 1st but he was fixated on getting a $100M contract and Devils was the only team that was willing to give it to him.

Some players with one season remaining after the season they were traded have signed an extensions with their new team (Bouwmeester, Pominville).

It's not that common that pending UFAs that are traded give up their UFA rights. Most of them want to see what is out there. Sometimes the team trading for them doesn't want to keep them and never planned to.

I don't feel like looking it up, but I'd be curious to see the trade returns for everyone on that list.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I don't feel like looking it up, but I'd be curious to see the trade returns for everyone on that list.

2009/10
Kovalchuk, 2nd, salmela to Devils for bergfors, cormier, oduya, 1st and 2nd.

2012/13
Jagr to Boston for cond. 1st/2nd (EC finals), payne, macdermid
Roy to Canucks for connauton and 2nd
Clowe to Rangers for 2nd, 3rd and cond. 2nd on re-signing
Iginla to Pens for 1st, agostino, hanowksi

2013/14
Hemsky to Sens for 3rd and 5th
Vanek to Islanders for moulson, cond 14/15 1st, 2nd.
Vanek to Habs for 2nd and collberg
Gaborik to Kings for frattin, 2nd and cond. 3rd
Moulson and mccormick to Wild for mitchell and two 2nds
Miller and ott to Blues for halak, carrier, stewart, 1st and 3rd

 

[Bender]

Would I prefer if the Avs hung on to that pick? Yes. Do I think they WILL when push comes to shove? No. Because I don't see them having that much patience with this defensive group.

He's a pending UFA for god sakes. Throw money at him this summer if you want him that bad.

I get it, you trade for him and you have the best shot at signing him but that's no guarantee. Also he makes the team better for a couple months. If they need him that bad and have lost all faith in the D then this team isn't going anywhere. So we give up a potentially huge piece of our future to get marginally better for a couple months. Sounds like a fabulous trade off to me.

Being a 'draft fanatic', I really don't enjoy sitting through and waiting until the 2nd round or later for my team to pick, that's for sure. Of course I would prefer if the Avs were able to package up different players or picks to acquire Sekera, I just figure the cost is going to be pretty high.

Plus, adding a solid D-man from another team through a trade doesn't mean you "completely lost faith in all the D-men on the team"....it's addressing a position of weakness to make the entire team better and specifically what they should be striving to eventually take this team to the next level.

The initial question in this thread was "what are your solutions to fix the Avs". I just gave mine to make them a better, more well rounded team. The question wasn't "what do you think the Avs should do for now and the future" because my thoughts have always been to build through the draft and keep getting better. My entire premise hinges on the fact that I believe Sakic convinced Iginla to sign with the Avs because they are going to make a push before he hangs them up. I believe that's going to be the case and that's why I suggested they make these trades now rather than wait to see what's available next July 1st.

 

[Freudian]

Most of the first rounders that have been traded for rentals in the past have been by good teams at deadline. Islanders giving up a first rounder for Vanek is the obvious exception, but even then they got protection by being able to make it a 2016 1st round pick instead.

I think with the change of the lottery rules where 14 teams have the chance to get first overall, teams are less likely to trade first rounders or at least make sure the first rounders they give up are protected.

Second rounders on the other hand teams are throwing out like confetti.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Most of the first rounders that have been traded for rentals in the past have been by good teams at deadline. Islanders giving up a first rounder for Vanek is the obvious exception, but even then they got protection by being able to make it a 2016 1st round pick instead.

I think with the change of the lottery rules where 14 teams have the chance to get first overall, teams are less likely to trade first rounders or at least make sure the first rounders they give up are protected.

Second rounders on the other hand teams are throwing out like confetti.

isles trade 2014 1st with the condition that they can defer it to 2015 if it's in top 10 or whatever the condition was. not 2016.

 

[CobraAcesS]

2009/10
Kovalchuk, 2nd, salmela to Devils for bergfors, cormier, oduya, 1st and 2nd.

2012/13
Jagr to Boston for cond. 1st/2nd (EC finals), payne, macdermid
Roy to Canucks for connauton and 2nd
Clowe to Rangers for 2nd, 3rd and cond. 2nd on re-signing
Iginla to Pens for 1st, agostino, hanowksi

2013/14
Hemsky to Sens for 3rd and 5th
Vanek to Islanders for moulson, cond 14/15 1st, 2nd.
Vanek to Habs for 2nd and collberg
Gaborik to Kings for frattin, 2nd and cond. 3rd
Moulson and mccormick to Wild for mitchell and two 2nds
Miller and ott to Blues for halak, carrier, stewart, 1st and 3rd

Thank for promoting my laziness lol

Most of the first rounders that have been traded for rentals in the past have been by good teams at deadline. Islanders giving up a first rounder for Vanek is the obvious exception, but even then they got protection by being able to make it a 2016 1st round pick instead.

I think with the change of the lottery rules where 14 teams have the chance to get first overall, teams are less likely to trade first rounders or at least make sure the first rounders they give up are protected.

Second rounders on the other hand teams are throwing out like confetti.

Looking at that list, its much less likely a 1st round pick is moved this year. There isn't anyone hyped to the level of Iginla/Vanek, and this draft is better.

Also none of the trades involving a 1st round pick worked out for the team sending them out, except maybe the Kovy trade because they resigned him.

St. Louis gave up a lot for Miller and Ott damn... Buffalo really bent those two teams over in those trades.

 

[zhack]

There's lots of different things they can do, but I think the one thing that would pay the most dividends in the way the team is playing, is if Roy let them play a grittier hard hitting style, instead of trying to be this offensive juggernaut score off the rush team. At least for one game.

They may be tallying hits in the hit column, but I don't remember many of them. A couple by Landy, maybe one by Iginla. They're just not generating any energy or momentum. Roy's too obsessed with taking out an element of nastiness for fear of the team losing focus. This is my biggest critique with him I think.

If they just went out hitting everything, finishing all their checks, and worrying about scoring later, the emotion they'd gain from it would be huge, and they'd be mentally in to the games. They're not mentally into the games.

I think you'd instantly start seeing sharper passes, and harder efforts defensively, if Roy let the reigns go and told them not to pass up any hits, and to drive the net and cause havok and scrums. It's the best, and fastest way to break this funk I think, and if Iggy or Landy start asserting themselves and have a really good fight as a result of playing aggressive, it would lift this team as well.

agreed 100%