Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread VI

[bluesfan94]

Martinez is 30, if that’s recent past then words have no meaning.

And again, even with those misses (oversights), they don’t change the scales whatsoever for me. Like, not even a little bit.

Sure, but goalies are different.

Serge Gnabry not changing the scales whatsoever is certainly a take though.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Sure, but goalies are different.

Serge Gnabry not changing the scales whatsoever is certainly a take though.

I don't consider Bellerin and Gnabry ('94 and '95 respectively) the "recent past." They were covered by that.

The omissions I was referring to were the list you put starting with AMN. No scales changed there.

EDIT: went in guns blazing, shouldn't have.

 

[bluesfan94]

I just don't think this is true...

If my counting is right, recent grads playing in top divisions looks like this:

Chelsea: James, Mount, Gallagher, Abraham, Broja, Chalobah, Livramento, Guehi, Tomori, Lamptey, Solanke, RLC, Christensen (joined Cobham younger than Nwaneri would), Gilmour (ditto), CHO, Colwill, Boga. All playing in a top division. The oldest player there is Loftus-Cheek ('96).

Arsenal: Saka, ESR, Nelson, Nketiah (who is a 50/50 Chelsea split IMO), Bennacer, Malen, Iwobi, Willock, Balogun, DaSilva. Oldest player there is Alex Iwobi ('96).

Saka and James are a wash at the top, and beyond that Chelsea has the advantage both in quality and quantity IMO.

Just gong through this, I match them as follows:

Saka (21) > James (23) - Chelsea fans will disagree, but Saka was as good at James as a LWB and is the best RW in the EPL right now. Also, Saka can actually play a whole season.
Nketiah = Nketiah - Fair play here.
Mount (24) > ESR (22) - Not sure how long this will last tbh, given that Mount is basically just hustle and hope, but c'est la vie.
Bennacer (25) > Gallagher (23) - Happy to discuss but I don't find it too controversial.
Balogun (21) > Abraham (25) - Again, don't see this as controversial this season.
Nelson (23) > Broja (21) - Again, I'm sure this will be controversial. Nelson, as a winger, has scored 4 more goals in top 5 leagues than Broja in 5 more games.
Chalobah (23) = Greenwood (21) - Different positions; both are backups in the PL and have played about the same number of games
Livramento is essentially impossible to compare given that he hasn't played in forever.
Guehi (23) = Iwobi (26) - both are starters on not so great teams.
Tomori (25) = Willock (23) - both are regulars for a team fighting for CL spots
DaSilva (24) > Lamptey (22) - Lamptey's star has faded some; DaSilva has started and played in more games than Lamptey on a team in a similar position in the table.
Solanke (25) > Anthony (23) - This is pretty close. They play on the same team. Solanke has played in one more game as a striker and has one more goal than Anthony, a winger. Anthony doesn't have the assists though, so advantage Solanke.
AMN (25) = RLC (26) - Not sure what there is to say. Both would be starters for mid table sides. Both are rotational at top sides.
Musah (20) > Gilmour (21) - One actually plays.
Mavididi (23) > CHO (22) - One has scored a goal this season.
Malen (24) = Colwill (20) Malen is at a bigger club, Colwill has a bunch of potential. Malen has done more this year.
Boga (26)= Osei-Tutu (24) - Both play regularly in a top 5 league
Christensen Arsenal doesn't really have a match for. Same with Declan Rice. So I guess Arsenal maybe has a couple fewer studs (although I didn't include Eze, Thompson, Tella, Stevens). Make the cut earlier or later and that changes.

If we talk U21, it's Saka, Balogun, Musah, Greenwood vs. Broja, Gilmour, Colwill. I know which side I would rather have.

And we aren't even getting into total numbers.

 

[luiginb]

Yeah you're biased. Some of those takes are horrible.

Just gong through this, I match them as follows:

Saka (21) > James (23) - Chelsea fans will disagree, but Saka was as good at James as a LWB and is the best RW in the EPL right now. Also, Saka can actually play a whole season.
Nketiah = Nketiah - Fair play here.
Mount (24) > ESR (22) - Not sure how long this will last tbh, given that Mount is basically just hustle and hope, but c'est la vie.
Bennacer (25) > Gallagher (23) - Happy to discuss but I don't find it too controversial.
Balogun (21) > Abraham (25) - Again, don't see this as controversial this season.
Nelson (23) > Broja (21) - Again, I'm sure this will be controversial. Nelson, as a winger, has scored 4 more goals in top 5 leagues than Broja in 5 more games.
Chalobah (23) = Greenwood (21) - Different positions; both are backups in the PL and have played about the same number of games
Livramento is essentially impossible to compare given that he hasn't played in forever.
Guehi (23) = Iwobi (26) - both are starters on not so great teams.
Tomori (25) = Willock (23) - both are regulars for a team fighting for CL spots
DaSilva (24) > Lamptey (22) - Lamptey's star has faded some; DaSilva has started and played in more games than Lamptey on a team in a similar position in the table.
Solanke (25) > Anthony (23) - This is pretty close. They play on the same team. Solanke has played in one more game as a striker and has one more goal than Anthony, a winger. Anthony doesn't have the assists though, so advantage Solanke.
AMN (25) = RLC (26) - Not sure what there is to say. Both would be starters for mid table sides. Both are rotational at top sides.
Musah (20) > Gilmour (21) - One actually plays.
Mavididi (23) > CHO (22) - One has scored a goal this season.
Malen (24) = Colwill (20) Malen is at a bigger club, Colwill has a bunch of potential. Malen has done more this year.
Boga (26)= Osei-Tutu (24) - Both play regularly in a top 5 league
Christensen Arsenal doesn't really have a match for. Same with Declan Rice. So I guess Arsenal maybe has a couple fewer studs (although I didn't include Eze, Thompson, Tella, Stevens). Make the cut earlier or later and that changes.

If we talk U21, it's Saka, Balogun, Musah, Greenwood vs. Broja, Gilmour, Colwill. I know which side I would rather have.

And we aren't even getting into total numbers.

 

[bluesfan94]

Yeah you're biased. Some of those takes are horrible.

Call 'em out then.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

holy shit i don't even know where to start with those comparisons

guehi = iwobi is hotter than anything i've seen here in awhile

 

[luiginb]

Tomori = Willock is unexcusable for me

 

[bluesfan94]

holy shit i don't even know where to start with those comparisons

guehi = iwobi is hotter than anything i've seen here in awhile

In terms of current performance, I don't think it's that hot of a take. They've both played about the same number of matches on a team in a relegation scrap. Guehi clearly isn't the best player on Crystal Palace; Iwobi has been Everton's best player.

Tomori = Willock is unexcusable for me

That's fair. One is a regular starter on a team that's third in Serie A; the other is a regular starter on a team that's third in the EPL. I guess I can see how that comparison would be inexcusable.

As a reminder, the question isn't just who's a better player. It's a question as to creating careers.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

That's fair. One is a regular starter on a team that's third in Serie A; the other is a regular starter on a team that's third in the EPL. I guess I can see how that comparison would be inexcusable.

if this is logical to you than I genuinely don’t know how you made it out of law school because it is absurdly fallacious.

Unless, by the same token, you wanna concede that Messi = Eric Chupo Moting, in which case knock your socks off

 

[luiginb]

In terms of current performance, I don't think it's that hot of a take. They've both played about the same number of matches on a team in a relegation scrap. Guehi clearly isn't the best player on Crystal Palace; Iwobi has been Everton's best player.

That's fair. One is a regular starter on a team that's third in Serie A; the other is a regular starter on a team that's third in the EPL. I guess I can see how that comparison would be inexcusable.

As a reminder, the question isn't just who's a better player. It's a question as to creating careers.

Are you going to watch Willock on Wednesday in the Premier League?

 

[bluesfan94]

if this is logical to you than I genuinely don’t know how you made it out of law school because it is absurdly fallacious.

Unless, by the same token, you wanna concede that Messi = Eric Chupo Moting, in which case knock your socks off

That's fair. I guess I'll take a look at how many Ballon D'Ors Tomori won vis-a-vis Willock and see if that comparison makes any sense. Again, comparing careers, not just talent. If you want to argue that Tomori has more natural talent than Willock, by all means make that argument. All the more impressive that Arsenal got them to the same place career-wise.

For what it's worth, that ranking was not supposed to be a talent vs. talent comparison, but rather where they are career-wise. I probably was a little favorable to Arsenal in that, for example, CHO vs. Mavididi is basically a wash; neither seems to be much more than a mid table top 5 league player. These things are just really hard to compare when you start messing around with positions.

Are you going to watch Willock on Wednesday in the Premier League?

I'm watching the Man United game. If your argument is that Tomori is in the CL, that's great to compare how a team did last season; Willock is two years younger and will likely be in the CL next season.

I'd end this by noting that two years ago, Tomori got all of 1 EPL game while at Chelsea. He did move to an easier league and start there. If you would prefer that we match Bennacer to Tomori and Willock to Gallagher, happy to. Bennacer and Tomori play on the same team and are of about equal importance. Meanwhile, Gallagher is a back up on a team much lower in the table than Willock.

 

[cgf]

if this is logical to you than I genuinely don’t know how you made it out of law school because it is absurdly fallacious.

Unless, by the same token, you wanna concede that Messi = Eric Chupo Moting, in which case knock your socks off

...ECMC has been in god-mode this season...

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Mikey Moore - Player profile 23/24

Mikey Moore, 16, from England ➤ Tottenham Hotspur U18, since 2023 ➤ Left Winger ➤ Market value: - ➤ * Aug 11, 2007 in London, England

www.transfermarkt.com

Spurs have a good one, scored a cracker in the Cup win, just 15

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Mikey Moore - Player profile 23/24

Mikey Moore, 16, from England ➤ Tottenham Hotspur U18, since 2023 ➤ Left Winger ➤ Market value: - ➤ * Aug 11, 2007 in London, England

www.transfermarkt.com

Spurs have a good one, scored a cracker in the Cup win, just 15

England's best U16 without a doubt.