So does Toronto now have the best centers in the league?

[Sidney the Kidney]

18 mins a night isn’t really top line minutes and he in no way gets top power play time. The difference here is Matthews is facing top pairing d men while Malkin gets second pairings. Matthews has been sheltered for sure but he’s the focal point for the oppositions defense while Malkin has always had Crosby.

What? Matthews literally finished 1st on the entire Leafs forward group in average TOI/GP. How is that *not* top line minutes?

Also, Malkin caught fire and recorded his first 100+ point season the year Crosby missed over 20 games with the high ankle sprain. He then lead the league in scoring with Crosby missing 60 games. I'm pretty sure with Crosby out, that meant Malkin had to face the other team's top defenders. And that didn't exactly hurt his production.

I think this year will be telling in this Matthews is now rookie Malkin’s age has Tavares to lighten the defensive matchups a bit not sure how PP time will be distributed but If he doesn’t break 30 assists again you can call him a good passer deal?

Haha what? Why is 30 assists the magical barrier to proving whether he's elite or just good? If he's "elite", like you say he is, then he better well finish around the 50 assist mark.

If he finishes with more than 30 assists, that just means he's slightly above average. That's by no means "good" or "very good".

 

[Jumptheshark]

this thread is just leaf fans trying to pat themselves on their back

other fan bases having fun to anger leaf fans

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Yeah it didn’t happen early in his career though, if you think Malkin didn’t benefit from being behind Crosby and on the PP with him at age 21 you’re out to lunch.

We just have no comparable yet Matthews is 20 , he has led his team back to the playoffs in the year out of his draft and had a much tougher task as a teenager and has faced it well as you could expect.

I am not saying Malkin isn’t an incredible player just Matthews has as much potential as Malkin did if not more. So there is no reason to believe he can’t round out all his skills and be in the conversation with Malkin when comparing them 20 years down the road.

Crosby > Tavares
Malkin > Matthews
Brassard < Kadri
So the penguins trio win out in this for sure but I’m taking the Leafs trio going forward and Matthews posses the ability to become a player of Malkin’s caliber.

It did happen early though. Malkins second season Crosby went down mid season and Malkin went on a tear and finished with 106 points. I don't think being behind Crosby helps his numbers at all. He shines brighter when he's "the man". You're just wrong here buddy I've watched Crosby/Malkins entire careers.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

What? Matthews literally finished 1st on the entire Leafs forward group in average TOI/GP. How is that *not* top line minutes?

Also, Malkin caught fire and recorded his first 100+ point season the year Crosby missed over 20 games with the high ankle sprain. He then lead the league in scoring with Crosby missing 60 games. I'm pretty sure with Crosby out, that meant Malkin had to face the other team's top defenders. And that didn't exactly hurt his production.



Haha what? Why is 30 assists the magical barrier to proving whether he's elite or just good? If he's "elite", like you say he is, then he better well finish around the 50 assist mark.

If he finishes with more than 30 assists, that just means he's slightly above average. That's by no means "good" or "very good".

I can’t say I agree with the ice time distribution but that’s Babcocks decision Matthews averaged 18 mins That’s not prototypical first line minutes at all to put in perspective it’s less then Malkin got in his rookie year. He averaged way less power play time as well, you’re comparing years Malkin produced to years we haven’t seen from Matthews I said he has to put together a remarkable career to be in the same talks as Malkin, I’m not doubt Malkins ability at all. He’s a 1C on any team without Crosby.

I used 30 assists as the mark cause you seemed to highlight that number. If Matthews gets real first line minutes like 21 mins a night and first PP time his numbers would be even better.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

It did happen early though. Malkins second season Crosby went down mid season and Malkin went on a tear and finished with 106 points. I don't think being behind Crosby helps his numbers at all. He shines brighter when he's "the man". You're just wrong here buddy I've watched Crosby/Malkins entire careers.

He was 23, and didn’t Crosby miss like 20 games, bit of a small sample size no?

Let’s wait and compare 21 year old Matthews to 21 old Malkin.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

He was 23, and didn’t Crosby miss like 20 games, bit of a small sample size no?

Let’s wait and compare 23 year old Matthews to 23 old Malkin.

He was 21... and Crosby missed 30 games.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

He was 21... and Crosby missed 30 games.

You’re right on age my bad , Matthews is 21 this year and has Tavares to take some matchups so let’s see.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I can’t say I agree with the ice time distribution but that’s Babcocks decision Matthews averaged 18 mins That’s not prototypical first line minutes at all to put in perspective it’s less then Malkin got in his rookie year. He averaged way less power play time as well, you’re comparing years Malkin produced to years we haven’t seen from Matthews I said he has to put together a remarkable career to be in the same talks as Malkin, I’m not doubt Malkins ability at all. He’s a 1C on any team without Crosby.

I used 30 assists as the mark cause you seemed to highlight that number. If Matthews gets real first line minutes like 21 mins a night and first PP time his numbers would be even better.

I mean, if Babcock only gave Matthews 18 minutes per night before, and now they've added Tavares, how exactly is Matthews going to now get 21 minutes per night? So already there's a reason why Matthews won't produce as much as Malkin did.

Also, why do you keep saying I'm comparing Malkin's production to years we haven't seen of Matthews yet? Malkin scored 106 points in his second season. Matthews is going into his third season. The age thing no longer factors in when you've got a year or two under your belt and acclimatized to the NHL.

I highlighted 30 assists because Matthews has never even recorded more than 29 assists in a season. I was poking fun at the fact you're saying someone who hasn't even registered 30 assists is somehow elite at playmaking.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

I mean, if Babcock only gave Matthews 18 minutes per night before, and now they've added Tavares, how exactly is Matthews going to now get 21 minutes per night? So already there's a reason why Matthews won't produce as much as Malkin did.

Also, why do you keep saying I'm comparing Malkin's production to years we haven't seen of Matthews yet? Malkin scored 106 points in his second season. Matthews is going into his third season. The age thing no longer factors in when you've got a year or two under your belt and acclimatized to the NHL.

I highlighted 30 assists because Matthews has never even recorded more than 29 assists in a season. I was poking fun at the fact you're saying someone who hasn't even registered 30 assists is somehow elite at playmaking.

So I guess the idea Matthews can improve significantly is a hard one to grasp seeing as he’s been in league a few years already.

The age is a big difference when comparing players most players don’t prosper in the league at their full potential as teenagers not every player defies age like McDavid or Crosby just like Malkin doesn’t either

Malkin didn’t enter the league out of the draft like Matthews so we have no comparable there.

 

[PensandCaps]

is this a Malkin vs Matthews thread?

lol

 

[LeafsNation75]

I highlighted 30 assists because Matthews has never even recorded more than 29 assists in a season. I was poking fun at the fact you're saying someone who hasn't even registered 30 assists is somehow elite at playmaking.

I'm honestly asking but when did getting at least 30 assists become some benchmark for a Centre in the NHL to reach? Ever since Matthews came into league everyone who hates him or the Leafs likes to forget he scored 40 goals as a rookie. Last time I checked scoring goals wins games.

 

[BostonBruins11]

is this a Malkin vs Matthews thread?

lol

I think so lmao

 

[PensandCaps]

I think so lmao

It's so absurd. as if it's even up for debate.

 

[Derekhanna89]

It's so absurd. as if it's even up for debate.

Even me, a Leafs fan, see's how insane that debate is.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Top 3 right now, and in 2-3 years will have the best center depth when Matthews reaches prime and Crosby/Malkin decline.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm honestly asking but when did getting at least 30 assists become some benchmark for a Centre in the NHL to reach? Ever since Matthews came into league everyone who hates him or the Leafs likes to forget he scored 40 goals as a rookie. Last time I checked scoring goals wins games.

Did you even follow the discussion? The discussion was *specifically* about whether or not Matthews is an elite playmaker. So bringing up how many assists he's gotten is kind of important in that discussion, no? And how many goals he's scored is kind of irrelevant to a discussion of his playmaking ability, no?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So I guess the idea Matthews can improve significantly is a hard one to grasp seeing as he’s been in league a few years already.

Where did I say he couldn't improve?

The age is a big difference when comparing players most players don’t prosper in the league at their full potential as teenagers not every player defies age like McDavid or Crosby just like Malkin doesn’t either

I mean, Matthews was considered one of those guys who would instantly be a star in the league. And I'd say his play has proven that to be the case. So if he's supposed to be on par with Malkin, why is the expectation for him right out of the gate not the same?

 

[rintinw]

Malkin's rookie year wasn't when he was 19 years old, and he wasn't doing it as his teams number 1 center.

I'm not saying Matthews is breaking 100 points next year, but he can do 90 points and be better defensively than Malkin in the process.

Did you know that Malkin was averaging 1-1.5 min per game on PK during Therrien tenure in PIT?
Did you know it that (at that time) he was regularly used when closing games with one goal leads?
Did you know that in 2007-10 seasons he also had more defensive starts than Toews, both RS (Toews 55.22, 62.50, 58.76; Malkin 52.85, 63.88, 57.30) and PO (Toews N/A, 64.96, 63.98; Malkin 55.30, 46.63, 57.43)?

It's funny that Therrien of all people was trusting Malkin in defensive roles more than any other NHL coach he had.

Im saying Malkin’s absurdly good PP stats maybe attributed a lot to the fact he plays on a stacked Unit featuring the best player of our generation. Matthews has had little help he’s only 20 years of age, he’s ahead in points at this point in his career guess we can just see how it unfolds. He has to put together a stellar career to be in conversation with Malkin but to say he has no chance is absurd. You put 19 year old Malkin or even 20 year old Malkin in the NHL with rookies Hyman and Brown/Nylander as his linemates and he gets how many assists?

And yet he maintained those 'absurdly good' PP stats even when Crosby was injured. For example Malkin on-ice stats for PP in 2007-08 season (just so that we look at Malkin at young age):
with Crosby 231 minutes, 32 goals for
w/o Crosby 182.5 minutes, 28 goals for

As for the second bolded part what we know is that 21 year old Malkin got 78 assists with Fedotenko and Sykora as his main wingers.

 

[Halla]

id say give it 2 years

Tavares - 29
Kadri - 29
Matthews 22

vs

Crosby 32
Malkin 33
Brassard 32

 

[Halla]

Kuznetsov > Tavares, Backstrom > Mathews, Kadri > Eller

HAHA wow.

Kuznetsov in his career season still getting fewer pts than JT is better?

0.94ppg JT vs 0.78ppg KUZ

Tavares=Backstrom=Matthews>Kuznetsov>Kadri>>Eller

 

[Halla]

Huh, Matthews? Didn't Tomas Plekanec score double his points last playoffs?

yet Matthews outscore the habs top 3 C combined, despite missing 20 games

63pts vs 61 Danault/Plek/De la rose

and no, drouin aint a C.

maybe use a bigger sample size than 7 games next time? especially the playoffs where the habs soon to former best player is also terrible (18pts in 38 games)

what has carey ever done in the playoffs by the way?

 

[Halla]

Crosby>>Tavares
Malkin>>Matthews
Kadri > Brassard

Nope.

no bias there when a dude with 62g the last 2 years only gets 1 > over a guy with 35

Crsoby 29g/89pts>> Tavares 37g/84pts ? get outta here with that garbage

the leafs forums have gone to the dumps lately

 

[rintinw]

Yeah it didn’t happen early in his career though, if you think Malkin didn’t benefit from being behind Crosby and on the PP with him at age 21 you’re out to lunch.

Ironically it actually did. Malkins had (significantly) better numbers without Crosby early in his career and it's the last few years when his numbers dip a little bit. I think it has something to do with how crappy wingers he had when he was young compared to very good winger situation in PIT last few seasons. Basically I believe that back then the loss of being 'sheltered' behind Crosby was greatly offset by upgrade in wingers and scoring opportunities. Right now there is almost no upgrade in winger quality for Malkin when Crosby is injured (given the PIT wingers).

 

[Khomutov]

He was 23, and didn’t Crosby miss like 20 games, bit of a small sample size no?

Let’s wait and compare 21 year old Matthews to 21 old Malkin.

Malkin was 21.

Malkin in 2007-2008

Without Crosby: 29 games, 46 points, 1.59 PPG
With Crosby: 53 games, 60 points, 1.13 PPG

That talk about harder matchups for Crosby is out of context.

 

[Kshahdoo]

HAHA wow.

Kuznetsov in his career season still getting fewer pts than JT is better?

0.94ppg JT vs 0.78ppg KUZ

Tavares=Backstrom=Matthews>Kuznetsov>Kadri>>Eller

I love this logic. So you say 86 points in 82 games is better, than 83 points in 79 games? 1.049 vs 1.05 PPG. It's very close, but still Kuznetsov is better. Then lets compare their 3 last full seasons. 98 + 122, -2 vs 66 + 153, +48. It's a bit in Tavares' favor, but still very close.

And now playoffs... yeah, it's Kuznetsov, and not even close.

And I'm not even going to compare Kuznetsov vs Matthews to not harm your homer feelings with cold rigid facts...