So does Toronto now have the best centers in the league?

[EdmFlyersfan]

Tavares and Matthews probably the slowest 1-2 centers in the NHL...

 

[ABCUser]

Mathew Barzal / Brock Nelson / Casey Cizikas / Leo Kamarov

Thanks Tavares you [mod]

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tavares and Matthews probably the slowest 1-2 centers in the NHL...

Wrong.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Tavares and Matthews probably the slowest 1-2 centers in the NHL...

This comment is so dumb and so wrong, I have nothing else to say.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I agree it’s very unlikely with Crosby as he’s going down top3 all time, but sky’s the limit really for Matthews.

Malkin with Crosby taking the heavy matchups didn’t even have 40 goals in his rookie year. While Matthews did it with 2 rookie linemates one being a 30 point player with 0 offensive instinct. At one point Nylander was on the fourth line and he was playing with Connor Brown as Zach Hyman so I can see if you just stat watch 69 points doesn’t look all that elite. We were coming off a last place in the league finish the only game Matthews has played where he wasn’t atleast marked was his first and he scored 4 goals.
Not trying to undermine Malkin I know he’s better now and has some of the best playoff performances of all time.

Sniff them, have you seen his nostrils? Matthews will end up being the best American born player of all time. (See how ridiculous that statement sounds) you got no crystal ball either we will have to see.

Malkin lead the league in scoring the year Crosby missed 60 games with a concussion. I'd be surprised if Matthews ever scores 109 points to win the Art Ross at any point in his career.

I also like how goals are the only thing to consider when deciding who is better. Let's ignore Malkin getting 85 points as a rookie to Matthews' 69, or Malkin's 106 points as a sophomore to Matthews' 63 (sorry, 85 "pace).

Matthews is going to have to improve DRAMATICALLY as a playmaker to ever have the overall impact of Malkin.

 

[X66]

Malkin lead the league in scoring the year Crosby missed 60 games with a concussion. I'd be surprised if Matthews ever scores 109 points to win the Art Ross at any point in his career.

I also like how goals are the only thing to consider when deciding who is better. Let's ignore Malkin getting 85 points as a rookie to Matthews' 69, or Malkin's 106 points as a sophomore to Matthews' 63 (sorry, 85 "pace).

Matthews is going to have to improve DRAMATICALLY as a playmaker to ever have the overall impact of Malkin.

Malkin's rookie year wasn't when he was 19 years old, and he wasn't doing it as his teams number 1 center.

I'm not saying Matthews is breaking 100 points next year, but he can do 90 points and be better defensively than Malkin in the process.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

1. Pittsburgh Crosby/Malkin/Brassard
2. Toronto Matthews/Tavares/Kadri
3. Washington Kuznetsov/Backstrom/Eller

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Malkin's rookie year wasn't when he was 19 years old, and he wasn't doing it as his teams number 1 center.

I'm not saying Matthews is breaking 100 points next year, but he can do 90 points and be better defensively than Malkin in the process.

And Malkin won the Art Ross in his third year. Why are you continually comparing Malkin's rookie year to every subsequent year of Matthews' career?

So even if Matthews does score 90 points next year, how does that trump 113 and a scoring title?

 

[Maria Sharapova]

And Malkin won the Art Ross in his third year. Why are you continually comparing Malkin's rookie year to every subsequent year of Matthews' career?

So even if Matthews does score 90 points next year, how does that trump 113 and a scoring title?

Malkin gets like 40 points a year on the power play, playing with Sidney Crosby. Matthews barely got 13 on the second unit and still was PPG while at even strength facing first pairing defense with no generational center to cruise behind. At Matthews age he wasn’t in the nhl. Yes Malkin has had an incredible career and is a top 100 player all time but to think Matthews doesn’t have similiar potential is crazy.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Malkin gets like 40 points a year on the power play, playing with Sidney Crosby. Matthews barely got 13 on the second unit and still was PPG while at even strength facing first pairing defense with no generational center to cruise behind. At Matthews age he wasn’t in the nhl. Yes Malkin has had an incredible career and is a top 100 player all time but think Matthews doesn’t have similiar potential is crazy.

So not only is Malkin being punished for being more effective on the PP, you're also glossing over the fact in his two Art Ross seasons, Malkin scored 70 and 75 ES points, respectively.

Matthews also has never recorded more than 30 assists in a season. And even if you want to use "pace", he's never paced for 40 assists in a season.

Yet he's going to match Malkin's point totals somehow. Only way he has a shot at that is if he scores 70 goals, because his assist totals will have to double before he's a 100 point threat.

 

[bobholly39]

1. Pittsburgh Crosby/Malkin/Brassard
2. Toronto Matthews/Tavares/Kadri
3. Washington Kuznetsov/Backstrom/Eller

That's probably fairly accurate for top 3.

No one is ever going to touch Pittsburgh imo until Crosby and Malkin decline. Even if you somehow threw Stamkos on the Leafs - I still would be tempted to rank Pitt #1.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

So not only is Malkin being punished for being more effective on the PP, you're also glossing over the fact in his two Art Ross seasons, Malkin scored 70 and 75 ES points, respectively.

Matthews also has never recorded more than 30 assists in a season. And even if you want to use "pace", he's never paced for 40 assists in a season.

Yet he's going to match Malkin's point totals somehow. Only way he has a shot at that is if he scores 70 goals, because his assist totals will have to double before he's a 100 point threat.

Im saying Malkin’s absurdly good PP stats maybe attributed a lot to the fact he plays on a stacked Unit featuring the best player of our generation. Matthews has had little help he’s only 20 years of age, he’s ahead in points at this point in his career guess we can just see how it unfolds. He has to put together a stellar career to be in conversation with Malkin but to say he has no chance is absurd. You put 19 year old Malkin or even 20 year old Malkin in the NHL with rookies Hyman and Brown/Nylander as his linemates and he gets how many assists?

 

[X66]

So not only is Malkin being punished for being more effective on the PP, you're also glossing over the fact in his two Art Ross seasons, Malkin scored 70 and 75 ES points, respectively.

Matthews also has never recorded more than 30 assists in a season. And even if you want to use "pace", he's never paced for 40 assists in a season.

Yet he's going to match Malkin's point totals somehow. Only way he has a shot at that is if he scores 70 goals, because his assist totals will have to double before he's a 100 point threat.

Again, context is important as well.

I'm not saying Matthews is going to put up the same numbers that Malkin has, because that would be very hard to do.

But what that poster said about the PP is important as well.

According the NHL.com, Malkin as a rookie was playing nearly 6 minutes of powerplay time A GAME. 6 minutes.

A PP with Crosby, Gonchar, Whitney and Recchi.

Matthews had 21 even strength assists when he was 20, where Malkin had 28(played 16 more games).

You can't say that's not important to his overall points.

Matthews doesn't even crack 3 minutes a game on the PP and he's on the 2nd unit.

The year Malkin won the Art, he was getting 5 minutes of PP a game and 22 minutes overall.

I'm not slagging Malkin either, he's a stud and deserves all his praise. But he's been put in that position to put up monster points as well.

Something Matthews has not been.

I don't know if Matthews will ever crack 100 points, but I know he has the talent to.

Just to further add, Malkin has had a TON of years where he's either getting 5 or 4 minutes of PP time a game, that insane loll

 

[Kelly]

Tavares and Matthews probably the slowest 1-2 centers in the NHL...

Wait, you think Matthews is slow?
Yikes.

But no this is still Malkin, Crosby... Leafs have a case for top three though.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Im saying Malkin’s absurdly good PP stats maybe attributed a lot to the fact he plays on a stacked Unit featuring the best player of our generation. Matthews has had little help he’s only 20 years of age, he’s ahead in points at this point in his career guess we can just see how it unfolds. He has to put together a stellar career to be in conversation with Malkin but to say he has no chance is absurd. You put 19 year old Malkin or even 20 year old Malkin in the NHL with rookies Hyman and Brown/Nylander as his linemates and he gets how many assists?

Considering Malkin's a superior playmaker to Matthews, then I'd safely say more than 29.

I mean, have you seen who Malkin has played with at even strength? People constantly bring up Crosby, but for the most part they don't play together anywhere but the PP. And considering Malkin has put up huge numbers at ES as well, you can't just dismiss his production as being on a potent PP. Playing with Hyman and Nylander would be an upgrade at ES compared to some of Malkin's linemates he's had over the years.

I also don't think you're being honest about Matthews' skillset. He's got a tremendous release, so I can see him being a perennial 40 goal guy who flirts with 50 on occasion. But he's not an elite playmaker. He's simply not. Good passer, but he's not in the upper tier with the McDavids or Crosbys or Backstroms. His overall numbers will probably be closer to what you see out of Tyler Seguin or Steven Stamkos, which would put him at a level below Malkin.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

Considering Malkin's a superior playmaker to Matthews, then I'd safely say more than 29.

I mean, have you seen who Malkin has played with at even strength? People constantly bring up Crosby, but for the most part they don't play together anywhere but the PP. And considering Malkin has put up huge numbers at ES as well, you can't just dismiss his production as being on a potent PP. Playing with Hyman and Nylander would be an upgrade at ES compared to some of Malkin's linemates he's had over the years.

I also don't think you're being honest about Matthews' skillset. He's got a tremendous release, so I can see him being a perennial 40 goal guy who flirts with 50 on occasion. But he's not an elite playmaker. He's simply not. Good passer, but he's not in the upper tier with the McDavids or Crosbys or Backstroms. His overall numbers will probably be closer to what you see out of Tyler Seguin or Steven Stamkos, which would put him at a level below Malkin.

You’re underating Matthews passing ability I will agree he will also be a shoot first center but I guess we can just wait and see. Kucherov who I’d assume you’d say is an excellent passer had similar assist totals to Matthews. It’s almost like players don’t peak at 20 years of age.

Malkin since he has entered the league has been in the position to put up lots and lots of points while Babcock has been molding Matthews to be a 2 way center. They were never deployed the same, Matthews isn’t even on the first PP. If Matthews entered the league had tons of time PP on a super stacked power play while behind Crosby he would have done even more damage.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

You’re underating Matthews passing ability I will agree he will also be a shoot first center but I guess we can just wait and see. Kucherov who I’d assume you’d say is an excellent passer had similar assist totals to Matthews. It’s almost like players don’t peak at 20 years of age.

How am I underrating it by calling it good, just not elite? It's like unless you say Leaf players are elite at every aspect of hockey, you're underrating them.

Elite playmakers don't record under 30 assists in a full season when they get top line minutes. Kucherov's worst season for assists is 36, and that's when he was getting less than 15 minutes per game. Hardly the top line minutes Matthews is getting now.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Again, context is important as well.

I'm not saying Matthews is going to put up the same numbers that Malkin has, because that would be very hard to do.

But what that poster said about the PP is important as well.

According the NHL.com, Malkin as a rookie was playing nearly 6 minutes of powerplay time A GAME. 6 minutes.

A PP with Crosby, Gonchar, Whitney and Recchi.

Matthews had 21 even strength assists when he was 20, where Malkin had 28(played 16 more games).

You can't say that's not important to his overall points.

Matthews doesn't even crack 3 minutes a game on the PP and he's on the 2nd unit.

The year Malkin won the Art, he was getting 5 minutes of PP a game and 22 minutes overall.

I'm not slagging Malkin either, he's a stud and deserves all his praise. But he's been put in that position to put up monster points as well.

Something Matthews has not been.

I don't know if Matthews will ever crack 100 points, but I know he has the talent to.

Just to further add, Malkin has had a TON of years where he's either getting 5 or 4 minutes of PP time a game, that insane loll

Is it Malkins fault that he was good enough to make the first team PP and Matthews is still on the second PP?

Using PP as a reasoning to downgrade someone is nonsense. Every star in the league is 99% of the time on their teams first PP.

Not sure exactly why Matthews isn’t on Toronto’s but that shouldn’t be Malkins fault when comparing the two’s stats.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Malkin since he has entered the league has been in the position to put up lots and lots of points while Babcock has been molding Matthews to be a 2 way center. They were never deployed the same, Matthews isn’t even on the first PP. If Matthews entered the league had tons of time PP on a super stacked power play while behind Crosby he would have done even more damage.

What exactly are you arguing here? I'm not saying Matthews isn't a good player. The discussion is whether Matthews can or ever will be on Malkin's level.

Also, the fact Babcock uses Kadri as his match-up center shows he's still sheltering Matthews from having to face the other team's best every night. So let's not make it sound like Malkin's always against the other team's 4th line, while Matthews has to try and shut down the other team's best.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Crosby > Tavares
Crosby > Matthews

Malkin > Tavares
Malkin > Matthews


Nope.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

What exactly are you arguing here? I'm not saying Matthews isn't a good player. The discussion is whether Matthews can or ever will be on Malkin's level.

Also, the fact Babcock uses Kadri as his match-up center shows he's still sheltering Matthews from having to face the other team's best every night. So let's not make it sound like Malkin's always against the other team's 4th line, while Matthews has to try and shut down the other team's best.

18 mins a night isn’t really top line minutes and he in no way gets top power play time. The difference here is Matthews is facing top pairing d men while Malkin gets second pairings. Matthews has been sheltered for sure but he’s the focal point for the oppositions defense while Malkin has always had Crosby.

I think this year will be telling in this Matthews is now rookie Malkin’s age has Tavares to lighten the defensive matchups a bit not sure how PP time will be distributed but If he doesn’t break 30 assists again you can call him a good passer deal?

 

[ScaredStreit]

Wrong.

Isles fan here and I assure you that I've seen more of Tavares than you have. While Tavares has certainly improved his skating throughout his career (his first 2 years or so he was brutally slow) and it no longer really holds him back...if you're expecting speed to be one of his strengths or to be a fast skater with the puck you're going to be disappointed-that's not the type of player he is. He slows the play down often (not a bad attribute), instead of the opposite. He is terrific on the puck and not coughing it up, reading plays and adapting, has a great shot and releases, has soft hands, etc. Looking at 1-2 highlights isn't really accurate, I'm sure you can make any player look amazing at any aspect of the game with one.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

18 mins a night isn’t really top line minutes and he in no way gets top power play time. The difference here is Matthews is facing top pairing d men while Malkin gets second pairings. Matthews has been sheltered for sure but he’s the focal point for the oppositions defense while Malkin has always had Crosby.

Malkins numbers are higher with Crosby out of the lineup. It doesn't matter what matchups Malkin faces he dominates.

 

[Riddum]

Wrong.

lol, bad examples, that was slow, albeit very skilled.

 

[Maria Sharapova]

Malkins numbers are higher with Crosby out of the lineup. It doesn't matter what matchups Malkin faces he dominates.

Yeah it didn’t happen early in his career though, if you think Malkin didn’t benefit from being behind Crosby and on the PP with him at age 21 you’re out to lunch.

We just have no comparable yet Matthews is 20 , he has led his team back to the playoffs in the year out of his draft and had a much tougher task as a teenager and has faced it well as you could expect.

I am not saying Malkin isn’t an incredible player just Matthews has as much potential as Malkin did if not more. So there is no reason to believe he can’t round out all his skills and be in the conversation with Malkin when comparing them 20 years down the road.

Crosby > Tavares
Malkin > Matthews
Brassard < Kadri
So the penguins trio win out in this for sure but I’m taking the Leafs trio going forward and Matthews posses the ability to become a player of Malkin’s caliber.