So Babcock needs to go

[Stephen]

Shift.
Who puts the players on the ice after a goal?

There are just over 2 minutes to play, you're down by 1 goal. You have one of the premiere playmakers in the league and likely the second or third best goalscorer in the league on your team. They're both 22 years old or younger, they average just around 20 minutes a game on the year, they don't play for nearly 72 hours after this game and you have a time-out left to use.

What shift are Kerfoot, Kapanen taking?

We're not talking about Jumbo Joe being asked to play 28 minutes in a given night. Fatigue is an abomination of an excuse for them remaining on the bench.

Again, it was a 6 on 5 in the Washington zone for over a minute, I don't think they drew it up that way.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Yeah, we thought so last year when Babs was forced to make changes... that generally lasted anywhere from a period to a game.

Lol so damn true

 

[weems]

Kapanen and Kerfoot were caught out there on the wrong shift and Washington didn't get it out for a change to occur.

Matthews wasn't even on the ice when Tavares scored (Kerfoot was).

You're telling me he couldnt start the next shift with Matthews and Nylander out there over Kerfoot?

He could have either called a timeout to rest his stars or even just throw Matthews line out there but he decided to do neither.

He chose to play Kerfoot and Kapanen over Matthews most likely because Matthews didnt have a good game or he gambled that he'd get a line change but he lost that bet.

Even if Matthews had a bad game, the chances we score with Matthews are FAR greater than two guys like Kapanen and Kerfoot who are miles less talented.

So is this about doing whats best for the team and what gives you the greatest chances to score and win or reward certain less skilled players when they have better games?

 

[Mike1]

I remember when the team signed Marincin last summer & all I could think was...why? He was god awful tonight & has been almost his entire career in a Leafs uniform. Yet, he sticks around. That is on management... You could have done something much more creative & took a chance on a different player. Instead, you kept a player you knew sucked.

Hutchinson needs a team to cover for him & the Leafs need a goalie to cover for their non-existent, lazy defensive play. Its a bad match. The Leafs need more from their back-up goalie.

My last point is this...In 3 years, this team hasn't gotten better defensively at all. They are too disorganized & disinterested in the defensive aspects of the game. Until that changes, this team has ZERO chance to contend for a ring. I'm tired of the lazy back checks & I'm tired of the lack of any team oriented structure. This needs to change in a very fundamental way with this organization.

 

[pcruz]

I remember when the team signed Marincin last summer & all I could think was...why? He was god awful tonight & has been almost his entire career in a Leafs uniform. Yet, he sticks around. That is on management... You could have done something much more creative & took a chance on a different player. Instead, you kept a player you knew sucked.

Hutchinson needs a team to cover for him & the Leafs need a goalie to cover for their non-existent, lazy defensive play. Its a bad match. The Leafs need more from their back-up goalie.

My last point is this...In 3 years, this team hasn't gotten better defensively at all. They are too disorganized & disinterested in the defensive aspects of the game. Until that changes, this team has ZERO chance to contend for a ring. I'm tired of the lazy back checks & I'm tired the lack of any team oriented structure. This need to change in a very fundamental way with this organization.

Well, I hate to burst your bubble (not you personally, but a generalized you).
This is a franchise whose fans want the following traits from their star players:

Centres - 200 foot players, top notch face-off takers, 50 goal scorers

Wingers - Defensive specialists. 35+ goals and 80+ points don't matter, it's the defensive aspect of their game that does.

Defensemen - Offensive superstars who can put up 50+ points a year while having absolutely no defensive accumen or physical strength.

Goalies - Literally only Jesus would be good enough.

 

[stickty111]

After last season, Babcock became worse and thats kind of hard to imagine.
Sure lets bench the player who is a generational goal scorer since entering league, over 3rd liners who are not goal scorers at all. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the stuff that irritated Matthews a couple years ago.

Also Dubas, you took a chance on Babcock again to see if he would change. He hasn't so stop this madness now.

 

[Carltons Cup]

It's a matter of time before babs cuts soupman's ice time, otherwise dubas will be giving him $10M next year as well.

 

[Hockey Crazy]

If Babcock is staying .. Dubas has to get a 1B backup. I hope they see that. I have my doubts though.

This is what drives us all crazy about Babcock though. He says he wants to get to the point where he can rely on hutch to go in at any time... sounds nice but he also needs to assess the talent he has and play them accordingly. That's his job!

Last year he takes shots at Dubas saying he didnt get us enough depth but he over played his depth guys and they sucked.

 

[Buds17]

If Babcock is staying .. Dubas has to get a 1B backup. I hope they see that. I have my doubts though.

Squandered leads in both starts so far. It's been a rough beginning.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Getting a good backup is hard though. Most of them are pretty bad, and even those that are just kind of bad usually cost more than we can afford.

It did hurt a bit to see a good backup like Casey DeSmith pass through waivers while we were sitting there with Hutchinson.

Thank Dubas and his brilliant cap management for that. Can't even add an extra 500k on the cap to go after a guy like DeSmith or Domingue over Hutch.

 

[Mickey Marner]

I'm hoping Gabby is out next coach, or maybe Keefe.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Thank Dubas and his brilliant cap management for that. Can't even add an extra 500k on the cap to go after a guy like DeSmith or Domingue over Hutch.

Neither of those goalies have contracts that are entirely buriable. Passing on them is the correct move from a risk assessment standpoint.

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

If the Leafs don’t make it out of the first round this season Shanny Dubas and Babs should all be fired.

Shanahan has been here 5 years now. 5 years without a division title or series win should lead to termination.

 

[Nooodles]

I remember when the team signed Marincin last summer & all I could think was...why? He was god awful tonight & has been almost his entire career in a Leafs uniform. Yet, he sticks around. That is on management... You could have done something much more creative & took a chance on a different player. Instead, you kept a player you knew sucked.

.

But..but he has a long stick every day.
Babcock loves big sticks.

I hate the guy so much I dont even spending time to write about him anymore.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

If the Leafs don’t make it out of the first round this season Shanny Dubas and Babs should all be fired.

Shanahan has been here 5 years now. 5 years without a division title or series win should lead to termination.

Yep.

If Shanny lets this Dubas "Skill" vision clash with Babcock "GudPro" vision, and waste our window of opportunity for another year, then he is at fault.
If the rumour is true that Dubas wanted to change coaches for this season, and Shanny let Babs stay on.

Then Babcocks leash better be friggen short. REAL short. 50 shades of grey short.

We lose to Boston on Saturday and the chopping block is for real.

 

[ToMaLe]

But..but he has a long stick every day.
Babcock loves big sticks.

I hate the guy so much I dont even spending time to write about him anymore.

Yea the day Babs put Marincin in game 7 against the Caps, I knew he would be the biggest reason for a loss, and as predictable as hell, I was right. Hated Babcock ever since. What he sees in Marincin is mind boggling. Both needs to go! If Babcock is still here IF we make the playoffs, and lose in the first round again, Dubas and Shanny needs to go too for wasting a great opportunity for a cup, by keeping that egotistic clown here.

 

[thewave]

Yea the day Babs put Marincin in game 7 against the Caps, I knew he would be the biggest reason for a loss, and as predictable as hell, I was right. Hated Babcock ever since. What he sees in Marincin is mind boggling. Both needs to go! If Babcock is still here IF we make the playoffs, and lose in the first round again, Dubas and Shanny needs to go too for wasting a great opportunity for a cup, by keeping that egotistic clown here.

I think the lot of them screwed it up. Shannahan, Dubas and Babcock. Shanny should never have hired such a young guy with no experience. Babs did some pretty wild things that made no sense, playing players that were awful too much. Dubas... Has now created an ultra soft overpaid team that will likely need restructured. It was going so well and then wow.

 

[613Leafer]

If the Leafs don’t make it out of the first round this season Shanny Dubas and Babs should all be fired.

Shanahan has been here 5 years now. 5 years without a division title or series win should lead to termination.

Shanahan ended ~10 years of futility where GM after GM completely failed to understand how to build a team in a cap era. JFJ, Burke, and Nonis were all trading picks and prospects away like they were candy, regularly letting valuable UFAs walk away in losing seasons, etc.

Shanahan has shown he actually has vision and was willing to do what needed to be done to build a legitimate team. Hard to complain with the results from that. He also helped bring in Lou, Babcock, Mark Hunter, Dubas, etc, very well respected hockey minds and a smart up and comer in Dubas. He revamped our scouting and development staff too, and put an even bigger focus on undrafted UFAs. By all accounts, the Marlies have been very successful the last few years, and have been regularly churning out NHLers which isn't something that was happening in the previous eras. They also landed one of the top top UFAs from the last 10-15 years in Tavares, a likely Hall of Fame player still in his prime.

Are there problems with how the team has been constructed, contracts have been given out, etc? Yes, absolutely. But all management teams make mistakes, and I'd say the overall picture has been very positive the last ~4-5 years with very few major mistakes (i.e. no Rask for Raycroft, Stralman for Primeau, two unprotected 1sts for Kessel, etc). I also think Dubas and Co are smart enough to learn from their mistakes, and that going forward you're a lot more likely to bring in a worse group than you are to bring in a better one.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Thank Dubas and his brilliant cap management for that. Can't even add an extra 500k on the cap to go after a guy like DeSmith or Domingue over Hutch.

His cap management overall has been good. We have squeezed together a ridiculous amount of talent while staying beneath the cap. Did he overpay our stars? Yes. But what he gave up there compared to other GMs he makes up with getting tons of value per cap dollar in our depth.

Some perspective is important here. Go back a year, and the overwhelming sentiment about the Leafs was that we would be substantially weaker this year, with important cap casualties just to stay under the cap at all. People thought we'd lose Nylander or at the very least Kapanen, that our defense would be further depleted, and that we'll continue to heavily rely on guys like Marleau and Brown. Instead we actually improved with the only blemish being a sub-optimal backup.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Are there problems with how the team has been constructed, contracts have been given out, etc? Yes, absolutely. But all management teams make mistakes, and I'd say the overall picture has been very positive the last ~4-5 years with very few major mistakes (i.e. no Rask for Raycroft, Stralman for Primeau, two unprotected 1sts for Kessel, etc). I also think Dubas and Co are smart enough to learn from their mistakes, and that going forward you're a lot more likely to bring in a worse group than you are to bring in a better one.

Agreed. You'd think that the expectations on a GM would be zero mistakes given the arguments people use around here.

I've said it before, if you would fire a GM for giving out a $1M overpay to a superstar - as some have argued for - then there's not a GM that would last the year.

 

[Go4soda]

I'm hoping Gabby is out next coach, or maybe Keefe.

Hoping dubas uses his one bullet soon.
I think it will be keefe. Dubas got keefe back in the game in SSM, and into pro with the Marlies.
I feel if not for shanahan, he’d be behind the leafs bench already. Just my honest opinion.

 

[WilliamInLondon]

lol, rightly or wrongly, it's starting to feel like anything short of an ECF appearance will mean the end of Babcock. I still maintain the right to reserve judgement until the end of this season, but I am cautiously optimistic about Keefe stepping in and taking this core to the next level as early as next season.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Just look at our lineup. We have three elite forwards, an enigmatic Nylander, and by my count six more clear T6 or T9 forwards. We have used our fourth line as a traditional shutdown line, and they have gotten the job done. We have a gamebreaking (though in my opinion a bit overrated) offensive d-man in Rielly, a similar player like that in Barrie, and one of the most unheralded two-way d-man in the game in Muzzin. Add one of the strongest performers on a third pairing in the whole league in Dermott. Add a starter that is at least top 10, many argues top 5.

How are we mediocre? We can talk about the flaws in how these guys do their jobs, but Babcock's job is literally to take all that input and turn it into a strong output on the ice. And that is far, far from happening. The players have done a flawed job, but Babcock has indubitably failed at his.

Second half of last season until now has been underwhelming. Revamping the roster didn't change that. If there are systemic issues that happen regardless of the pieces involved, then you look at the source of the system.

Firing Babcock will be catharsis for this team.

 

[Bomber0104]

Just look at our lineup. We have three elite forwards, an enigmatic Nylander, and by my count six more clear T6 or T9 forwards. We have used our fourth line as a traditional shutdown line, and they have gotten the job done. We have a gamebreaking (though in my opinion a bit overrated) offensive d-man in Rielly, a similar player like that in Barrie, and one of the most unheralded two-way d-man in the game in Muzzin. Add one of the strongest performers on a third pairing in the whole league in Dermott. Add a starter that is at least top 10, many argues top 5.

How are we mediocre? We can talk about the flaws in how these guys do their jobs, but Babcock's job is literally to take all that input and turn it into a strong output on the ice. And that is far, far from happening. The job the players have done has been flawed, but the job Babcock has done has been a failure.

Second half of last season until now has been underwhelming. Revamping the roster didn't change that. If there are systemic issues that happen regardless of the pieces involved, then you look at the source of the system.

Firing Babcock will be catharsis for this team.

So in other words- blah blah blah blah, Babcock is the sole thing holding this team back from success.

Lame.

It's amazing how some people have convinced themselves this team deserves Cups because of a bunch of names on paper and that those players are above any criticism.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I won't be writing an essay on this but writing is on the wall for me, fire the guy.

Keefe interims. If he is no good and if Boudreau loses his gig in Minnesota, that would be my next coach.

Dubas owns some of the responsibility as our defense is still an issue and our backup goaltender is pretty awful. Why? He couldn't negotiate with our star players.

If the team is still having issues, just move on from Dubas. We only have these star players under contract for so long and I would rather not piss it away.

Key factor for me with Dubas is he still believes you can finesse/skill your way to a cup. You do need some physicality, push back and strong defense. If we have a bunch of defensively flawed players or players that simply won't buy in, trade them. I don't care what 23 players are on the roster when we win the Cup, i'll be happy no matter what.