So Babcock needs to go

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LeafsOHLRangers98

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Jun 13, 2017
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He will at some point. If we're seeing the bad trends / strategies / lineup decisions already, you know the people that are a lot smarter than us are seeing it as well.

I think we'll see a change at the 15-20 game mark if this continues (like with Quenneville).

The ones that are not forgivable for me are not playing your best players more when losing, not playing your best players in the last minute and a half when losing (Johnsson for Nylander in St.Louis game), and somehow always having worse line matchups at home than on the road.

Like how do you PLAN worse matchups than teams put together when they're trying to shut us down on their home ice? It's unfathomable really..
 

Nithoniniel

Registered User
Sep 7, 2012
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Yup.

We're coming off a game where our best line couldn't get the ice time it deserved because Babcock was busy dictating a matchup we lost by a mile. That's not a reason to fire him, but it's also something you should never see from a good coach. The mess we are right now is not just on him, and it's possible that he's not the reason why the same issues keep cropping up regardless of who we acquire or promote, but he's not doing what a good coach should either, which is find a solution to it.

It's getting increasingly hard to justify him remaining, and I'm someone who often argues that coaches get unfairly maligned.
 

HomerJLeafs

i just hope we make the POs
Dec 27, 2017
1,081
952
Needs to be fired because we run into the same problems every year:
Best players not playing enough
Forced linematching even if it doesnt work
Never calls for a timeout
Always plays the backup on the 2nd night
Bad special teams
No in game adjustment
And it must be the coach because the player personel changed a lot
I really dont know how its even possible that the team is always late like arriving 5 minutes late in the game even if its a very important hyped up game???
 

Kevs Security

inmateMack/CanesMack/LeafMack/elMacko
May 28, 2018
1,783
2,188
Toronto, Canada
Fellas,

Mikey Babs is trying to change the team culture. No man is greater than the team! This is why Gauthier plays 16 minutes a game, and Auston plays 14 minutes a game. It is to show these "star players" they aint that big a deal. What Matthews did recently... it seems like Babcuck still has some work to do.
 

Peasy

Registered User
May 25, 2012
16,679
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Star Shoppin
I really enjoyed watching that first game that didn't involve stretch pass after stretch pass. But we allowed 3 goals that game so it was time to go back to the stretch pass for the rest of the season.

I couldn't imagine having to take orders from a guy that always thinks he's the smartest man in the room and isn't willing to innovate or try something new. It would be pretty demoralizing.

Nylander has been playing great this season but is still getting nothing as a reward. Meanwhile money mitch has been absolute garbage and is still getting gifted every opportunity. So much for accountability.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
I hate seeing guys pigeon holed. Like you play the 4th line and PK and that’s all you ever do.
Like I know Leivo wasn’t the greatest ever but you don’t PK so you never play. Even if lines 1-3 are stinking bad for a stretch you never play.
 

hullsy47

Registered User
Dec 7, 2005
6,338
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He will at some point. If we're seeing the bad trends / strategies / lineup decisions already, you know the people that are a lot smarter than us are seeing it as well.

I think we'll see a change at the 15-20 game mark if this continues (like with Quenneville).

The ones that are not forgivable for me are not playing your best players more when losing, not playing your best players in the last minute and a half when losing (Johnsson for Nylander in St.Louis game), and somehow always having worse line matchups at home than on the road.

Like how do you PLAN worse matchups than teams put together when they're trying to shut us down on their home ice? It's unfathomable really..
i could care less if he gets fired but who do we blame if the teams play doesn't improve ?
I agree I think dubas and Shanahan have to be looked at too
This could get ugly real quick with a loss to detroit
 

KingJoffrey

Registered User
Jan 30, 2014
2,247
745
I hope Dubas fires Babcock. After his boy the golden Marlie fails it's Dubler who will get fired.

Leafs next shot for cup is 3-5 years away. Cap will need to raise and make thlse bad deals look less bad. Too bad Matthews is up soon.
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
12,818
3,641
He's on a short leash for sure. Three straight first round exits and now he has a roster that on paper looks like a legit President's Trophy candidate. Other teams are able to coach their young stars into two-way studs (e.g. Barkov, Aho, etc), whereas the Leafs remain a defensive mess (20th in GAA last year despite having a borderline Vezina candidate in net).
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
Fire Babcock, hmm interesting. That certainly is a potential silver lining around this dark cloud of a start to the season. Not sure who I should be rooting for tomorrow now.
Are we playing the best system to maximize what Dubas has put together?

sure I’d like more forecheck and heavier hockey in addition to skill. I prefer a solid D to flashy wingers but you have to roll with how you are built at the moment.

is Babcock right for the moment?
 

Peasy

Registered User
May 25, 2012
16,679
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Star Shoppin
I hope Dubas fires Babcock. After his boy the golden Marlie fails it's Dubler who will get fired.

Leafs next shot for cup is 3-5 years away. Cap will need to raise and make thlse bad deals look less bad. Too bad Matthews is up soon.
5 years is soon :laugh:
 

Dayjobdave

Registered User
Apr 29, 2010
3,193
1,531
The poor stars and lack of adjustment are disappointing. The ease with which other coaches pin our best players to the bench due to Babcock line matching is infuriating.

it sure looks like these kids don’t want to play for him.

As above, this could get really sour really fast
 

ottomaddox

Registered User
Oct 31, 2017
10,592
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Toronto
If you want to fire Babcock then fine, but realize that the next person to go is Dubas (possibly Shanahan). I really can't tell if it's all on Babs, or it's the way this team is designed.

I really think there are too many teams already pushing TOR around. CBS tried it and got burned, but it seems to have worked alright for the other teams.
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
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Toronto
Heh.

What will you do once he’s gone and you still have 22 million dollars in John Tavares and Mitch Marner playing like jags?

Funny, they talked about this yesterday on the radio - as much as I’m not a Pierre McGuire fan, he nailed it. Many Leaf fans love their players unconditionally and won’t hold them accountable. It’s easier to blame the coach or the front office when your hero looks like a zero.

Freddy was terrible, the defense was terrible.... so let’s fire the coach. Great idea!
 

Gary Nylund

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Oct 10, 2013
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Heh.

What will you do once he’s gone and you still have 22 million dollars in John Tavares and Mitch Marner playing like jags?

Funny, they talked about this yesterday on the radio - as much as I’m not a Pierre McGuire fan, he nailed it. Many Leaf fans love their players and don’t hold them accountable, it’s easier to blame the coach or the front office when your hero looks like a zero.

Freddy was terrible, the defense was terrible.... so let’s fire the coach. Great idea!

I'm not giving anyone a free pass, especially not the "nouveau rich" kids but as the old maxim says (paraphrasing) - it's easier to fire the coach then it is to fire all the players.

And Freddy and the defense may have been terrible but the coach has been terrible for some time now, I hope you're not implying that he should be getting a free pass.
 

Trapper

Registered User
Nov 21, 2013
23,736
11,002
Heh.

What will you do once he’s gone and you still have 22 million dollars in John Tavares and Mitch Marner playing like jags?

Funny, they talked about this yesterday on the radio - as much as I’m not a Pierre McGuire fan, he nailed it. Many Leaf fans love their players unconditionally and won’t hold them accountable. It’s easier to blame the coach or the front office when your hero looks like a zero.

Freddy was terrible, the defense was terrible.... so let’s fire the coach. Great idea!
I think we do hold the players accountable but it’s easier to change 1 guy instead of 20.

it’s also year 5 of Babcock (3 1st round exits) so not like it’s just the flavour of the day.

when you spend half the cap on 4 guys, you need the coach who maximizes what they do. And half the cap is on Dubas. So the evaluation begins in stages. And some point we will be looking at Dubas as well. He’s paid the guys, selected the guys and he needs what gets the most out of them. After the coach it’s the players and the GM.

we have a chance to right the ship now so let’s see the next 5 games.
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,705
Toronto
I'm not giving anyone a free pass, especially not the "nouveau rich" kids but as the old maxim says (paraphrasing) - it's easier to fire the coach then it is to fire all the players.

And Freddy and the defense may have been terrible but the coach has been terrible for some time now, I hope you're not implying that he should be getting a free pass.
Not at all. Nobody gets off the hook... but, this didn’t shock me. I knew they’d have trouble defending elite offense and unless Freddy is at his best, they’d have no chance.

Last night just reiterated that the defense is arguably worse than last year.
 

GoonieFace

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
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The Matrix
Im not a Babcock basher or supporter, but man this team is frustrating to watch sometimes. Say what you will, but they have no jam. That you can blame on Dubas. Its probably time to move on from Babs as well, he has probably lost the room. If you are going to launch him into the sun, please do it soon
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
29,787
21,963
Not at all. Nobody gets off the hook... but, this didn’t shock me. I knew they’d have trouble defending elite offense and unless Freddy is at his best, they’d have no chance.

Last night just reiterated that the defense is arguably worse than last year.

Yikes! That is a scary thought but so far, they've been way worse than I had hoped. Even the usually reliable Rielly has been sub par so not a pretty picture. And I was expecting this to be the best D we've had in a long time. Not just the D either, the team as a whole just sucks.

Best case scenario for me is that the poor play continues for some time, Babs gets the boot and then the team comes together under a new coach. Here's hoping!
 
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