Confirmed with Link: [SJ/DET] Red Wings trade 3rd round pick for Dylan Sadowy (Signed to ELC)

[edmundbenz]

The problem with Abdelkader is that he's a pretty limited player and the fact he's become one of our better players seems to be more related to everyone else getting worse rather than him developing as a player. It's part of the Wings' descent into utter mediocrity.

At least Abby is playing to be like a TOP 6 player compared to the other TOP 6 player that plays like a 3rd or 4th line.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Plenty of teams have Abby type players in their top 6. And by "Abby type player" I mean someone who is out there to do the dirty work and provide something the typical "scorers" don't. Abby in the top 6 is not a problem.

This 100%.

Also, this thread is about Sadowy.

 

[sarcastro]

Should draft two dmen in the first two rounds cause of this

I agree that they need an infusion of defensive talent in the pipeline, but I'm seeing this kind of thing a lot and I'm wondering ... do people think they're going to see this year's draft picks in the NHL before 2019? Because it's extremely likely that it will be at least that long before they're brought up.

Just want to make sure that we're not under the delusion that drafting defensemen will fix this team in the short or even medium term.

 

[Reddwit]

It stems from having a super simplistic outlook on hockey. Many have come to interpret top six to mean the six most skilled forwards. Furthermore, they think that the collective offensive output of playing the six most skilled forwards together will be greater than the output of any other combination of players.

I don't buy it for a second, at least not in today's NHL game.

I'm calling ********. This organization and its fans rightfully revered Homer and welcomed, loved him on the top line. That's because he found himself there after hard work and basically developing a role that only a few guys had carved out before. He made himself out of a 4th liner and a shot target, not by receiving a 1st line gift.

The problem with Abby will always be that he was anchored to the 1st line forever, long before he deserved it. It took him SEASONS to work out there. He was a plug for far too long for him to shake that label. I mean, look around the league. People still think of him as a scrub despite basically back to back 20/20 years.

If he came up through the ranks and forced himself into the top six a la Franzen as a 4th liner, he'd have a much different rep.

 

[newfy]

I'm calling ********. This organization and its fans rightfully revered Homer and welcomed, loved him on the top line. That's because he found himself there after hard work and basically developing a role that only a few guys had carved out before. He made himself out of a 4th liner and a shot target, not by receiving a 1st line gift.

The problem with Abby will always be that he was anchored to the 1st line forever, long before he deserved it. It took him SEASONS to work out there. He was a plug for far too long for him to shake that label. I mean, look around the league. People still think of him as a scrub despite basically back to back 20/20 years.

If he came up through the ranks and forced himself into the top six a la Franzen as a 4th liner, he'd have a much different rep.

As for the bold, most teams like Abby alot more than wings fans do. They see him as a legit physical force that will fight the odd time and actually score some goals. Wings fans still think of him as a fourth liner even though hes clearly proven himself a top 6 power forward at this point

 

[Reddwit]

As for the bold, most teams like Abby alot more than wings fans do. They see him as a legit physical force that will fight the odd time and actually score some goals. Wings fans still think of him as a fourth liner even though hes clearly proven himself a top 6 power forward at this point

Teams? Sure. Thats why Clowe, Clarkson, Callahan, Abby, Penner, ad nauseum get the deals they do. The fans? Not at all. The majority of *insert NHL team name here* fans think of Abdelkader as a scrub, not as an incarnation of The Good Clarkson/Clowe. And thats my point. It gives insight into how Abby is viewed from a fan's perspective. No one, outside of a sect of Wings fans, is getting excited about Abdelkader's production. Because its not a story line when its a gift-given role and he's making it work three seasons after the layout.

Like, just pull up that trash-talking gif of Doan in the playoffs ragging on Abdelkader for not being able to put up more than...what was it? Like 15 points? With Datsyuk and Zetterberg? That basically exemplifies why Abdelkader is looked at the way he is. He got the opportunity...and then he got the success. Not the other way around. I hope I don't come across as having any political bias when I say this, but its like a multi-millionaire saying he did things "the hard way" when he inherited 6-7 million dollars upon reaching adulthood. Thats Abby. He was gifted an ideal role and not only did he not immediately take off, it took him like 100 games - 1.5 years - to learn how to make the best of his perfect situation.

I actually really like the Abdelkader we have now. There is no way he belongs on the 4th line. But I'm not going to be some Abdelkader lackey like I was with Franzen or Holmstrom, or even Samuelsson (ok, it was just for a season or two). Abdelkader didn't earn the incessant presence he had with our best players. He just didn't. He, fortunately for us, over a period of years, learned how to maximize his own usage, but it sure as hell wasn't a pretty or efficient process.

And THAT is why, in my humble opinion, Abdelkader isn't revered like a McCarty or Holmstrom or Lapointe type. He didn't bootstrap himself. He didn't find himself cemented to the top line because he was making do; he found himself on the top line because there were no other options.

 

[Claypool]

He didn't bootstrap himself. He didn't find himself cemented to the top line because he was making do; he found himself on the top line because there were no other options.

Welcome to the salary cap. Your top 6 can't be filled with players all making $8+ million each. You have to find cheap alternatives that work. Just look who Sidney Crosby is playing with right now in the playoffs. Abdelkader was given an opportunity and ran with it. That's how it goes. In order to win in this league you have to have young players on entry-level deals playing like $5 million dollar players.

 

[Reddwit]

Welcome to the salary cap. Your top 6 can't be filled with players all making $8+ million each. You have to find cheap alternatives. Just look who Sidney Crosby is playing with right now in the playoffs. Abdelkader was given an opportunity and ran with it. That's how it goes.

Did you miss the entire point of all my posts?

Thats exactly why Wings fans still don't consider Abby a favorite.

He was given an oppporunity....and he stalled...and he stalled...and he stalled....and he eventually made do with it.

He did the opposite of running with the opportunity he was given. He ****ing crab-walked with the opportunity he had.

 

[Frk It]

I agree that they need an infusion of defensive talent in the pipeline, but I'm seeing this kind of thing a lot and I'm wondering ... do people think they're going to see this year's draft picks in the NHL before 2019? Because it's extremely likely that it will be at least that long before they're brought up.

Just want to make sure that we're not under the delusion that drafting defensemen will fix this team in the short or even medium term.

So do we wait another year and then see them in 2020? Or wait til the following and see them in 2021?

I mean we can just keep sweeping this under the rug all we want but eventually it's got to be addressed.

There's a saying -- "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is right now."

 

[Claypool]

Did you miss the entire point of all my posts?

Thats exactly why Wings fans still don't consider Abby a favorite.

He was given an oppporunity....and he stalled...and he stalled...and he stalled....and he eventually made do with it.

He did the opposite of running with the opportunity he was given. He ****ing crab-walked with the opportunity he had.

So you're mad because it took him time to figure it out? ok.

 

[Claypool]

So do we wait another year and then see them in 2020? Or wait til the following and see them in 2021?

I mean we can just keep sweeping this under the rug all we want but eventually it's got to be addressed.

There's a saying -- "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is right now."

To me, this team's new core of young players won't be ready to "contend" for five years. So they have five years to figure out the defense long-term. I would just go with kids next season and see what happens. If they suck and bottom out, then they get a high pick and, potentially, a defensemen with #1 potential.

What they don't want to do is squander prime years of players like Larkin and Mrazek while scrambling to find good defensemen.

Of course, my backup plan would be to wait until Karlsson is a free agent in three years and offer a max contract. Problem solved.

 

[HockeyinHD]

He was given an oppporunity....and he stalled...and he stalled...and he stalled....and he eventually made do with it.

The reason I find your opinion unpersuasive is that players develop at different paces, and for different reasons. Writing off a player when they hit age 25 for no other reason that they are 25 and other guys are <25 is how a team loses decent players.

I'm not here banging a drum for Abby or anything, either. He's fine, but him being present or absent in the immediate to short term isn't going to have a huge impact on anything. More generally, I'm expressing skepticism of the train of thought which requires one to shoo a prospect out the door before he hits the end of his RFA status simply because he hadn't yet reached whatever level of development was pre-supposed for him at an earlier date.

 

[Reddwit]

So you're mad because it took him time to figure it out? ok.

Me personally? No. I don't really care about Abdelkader. Sometimes I get confused about where I've said things, but just to reiterate, (1) I like Abby in a top 6 role (2) I like him at his salary, assuming status quo, and (3) I hate the length of his deal.

Otherwise, I'm just opining on the general Red Wings fanbase's reluctance to accept Abdelkader as a Detroit Red Wing (emphasis intended with capitalization). You can't really argue that people don't see Abdelkader as the legend or icon that was Homer or Lapointe, respectively (despite how hard DRW is trying)...so what gives? My opinion is that its a general turn-off when a player is given an opportunity and takes a literal 400-500 days to do something with it. Thats a very human, base-line psychological opinion that breeds strength from the millions (maybe billions) of people who think "If I was just given opportunity to do X (usually some type of job), I would run with it." But, conversely, people love it when the underdog proves the naysayers wrong and succeeds anyway.

Unfortuantely, thats not what Abdelkader did.

From a Hollywood perspective, Abdelkader is the moronic descendant of a deserving Harvard attendee, whereas Holmstrom, for example, is the inner-city kid who attended Harvard. Thats the problem with the Abdelkader Perception, which was the point of my rebuttal in the first place.

 

[Mijatovic]

I feel I stumbled into the wrong thread.

 

[Bench]

So this is about Sadowy. Abby talk is over here, but you can do that in an Abby thread.

 

[Reddwit]

I feel I stumbled into the wrong thread.

So this is about Sadowy. Abby talk is over here, but you can do that in an Abby thread.

My apologies. I think the connection is for those who are excited about Sadowy - a potential Abdelkader - but simultaneously disenchanted with Abby - what we hope Sadowy becomes.

 

[sarcastro]

So do we wait another year and then see them in 2020? Or wait til the following and see them in 2021?

I mean we can just keep sweeping this under the rug all we want but eventually it's got to be addressed.

There's a saying -- "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is right now."

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to remind folks that we did not, in fact, plant that tree 20 years ago. The tree we plant in June is not going to bear fruit anytime soon. There are major problems with the defense today that this draft will not solve.

If they were to make a Sadowy style trade for an NHL ready defenseman, that would help today. But I doubt that such a trade is out there to be made.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to remind folks that we did not, in fact, plant that tree 20 years ago. The tree we plant in June is not going to bear fruit anytime soon. There are major problems with the defense today that this draft will not solve.

If they were to make a Sadowy style trade for an NHL ready defenseman, that would help today. But I doubt that such a trade is out there to be made.

I think everybody understands that

 

[Run the Jewels]

I like this trade for one main reason: we will find out what Sadowy's ceiling is within 1-3 years. We'd have to wait 5+ years if Holland used the draft pick on an 18 year old. San Jose has a very strong record of drafting and development so I like that we are getting a guy who is probably very close to making the Red Wings roster. My only minor concern is he was going to re-enter the draft which means the Sharks didn't view him as a piece of their NHL roster.

We've only had one guy re-enter the draft from what I can remember but it worked out really well for him. That was Alan Quine. Regardless, I am all for accelerating the hit or bust time cycle so we know which players should be part of the roster once we move on from the Holland era. We'll know exactly how well Sadowy fits in by 2018 at the latest so that definitely works for me.

 

[FissionFire]

Alan Quine wasn't offered a contract. I'm not sure whether Sadowy was offered one and didn't sign it or not offered at all. The details on that aren't very clear.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

As long as a prospect has other tools in the tool box I usually worry about skating the least. Its one of the areas people can make great improvements on and the extend of their skating can also become overblown. I remember people saying John Tavares couldn't translate to the NHL because of his skating. Then again they said that about Brett Connolly too. All I mean is a few rumors about skating are nothing to panic about.

I strongly disagree with any suggestion that skating is easily fixed or that prospects can easily make significant strides with their skating. In truth it is very difficult to improve. Even if it improves on an absolute basis, it is very difficult to improve on a relative basis, especially acceleration. Skating keeps more prospects out of the NHL than people around here want to admit.

Tavares' skating in juniors was not all that bad. No one thought it would completely keep him out of the league. Those comments about his skating were a function of him being an overexposed, high-end prospect.

The good news for Sadowy is that he is a little further along in his development and we have taken some of the guess work out of the equation. I do think that if the organization thought his skating was beyond hope, they would not have made the trade.

 

[SimplySolace]

3 year ELC is now official

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Alan Quine wasn't offered a contract. I'm not sure whether Sadowy was offered one and didn't sign it or not offered at all. The details on that aren't very clear.

If I remember right Alan Quine's representatives told the Wings he was not interested in signing due to the Wings depth chart and would be re-entering the draft.

 

[chances14]

I strongly disagree with any suggestion that skating is easily fixed or that prospects can easily make significant strides with their skating. In truth it is very difficult to improve. Even if it improves on an absolute basis, it is very difficult to improve on a relative basis, especially acceleration. Skating keeps more prospects out of the NHL than people around here want to admit.

i agree with this. skating is one of those things you either have or don't have imo. sure you can fine tune your technique a little bit but skating in general is not something that is easily improved

 

[ChadS]

If I remember right Alan Quine's representatives told the Wings he was not interested in signing due to the Wings depth chart and would be re-entering the draft.

I'm pretty sure it was the opposite, Wings decided not to offer a contact.

edit: Here's an article: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/s...introduces-himself-as-a-playoff-standout.html

Quine was selected by the Detroit Red Wings in the third round of the 2011 draft. But after the Red Wings made no effort to sign him, Quine said, he hardly paid attention to the draft two years later, when the Islanders selected him in the sixth round.