Simmonds and Voracek time to go

[baudib1]

And if we don't get Q? Oh well? He's a coach and in the end, talent at the top of the draft is worth a lot more than a single aging coach. But it's still an attractive hire. And the Flyers appear dead set on offering as much or more money than anyone else for him. I honestly think it doesn't greatly matter to him if they finish 7th or 15th.

I still don't know what your point is. They won't tank. They'll ideally just not go out of their way try to fix this short-term, while dealing the expendables.

Well, I think you're aware that "lose for Hughes" is a thing around here. I am speaking to that.

Mostly I really just want to deal Simmonds and AMac; put Lindblom into a bigger role; play Myers, Morin and NAK and any other kids that are playing well at LHV, and try to win hockey games.

I'm all for a hockey trade for a 26-31-year-old mid-6/top 4 player who can contribute for the next 3-5 years as well.

 

[GKJ]

I think it matters a lot for Q, and getting Q would be a big step toward getting the big free agent.

FWIW, I would put the odds at significantly higher than 20%

We got a big free agent last summer and we're in last place. You don't build your team around free agents, and the vast majority of 'big' free agents are far more trouble than they're worth. Getting the big free agent is something you do when you think you're one or two pieces away.

 

[baudib1]

We got a big free agent last summer and we're in last place. You don't build your team around free agents, and the vast majority of 'big' free agents are far more trouble than they're worth. Getting the big free agent is something you do when you think you're one or two pieces away.

Toronto got Tavares, who's having a career year, and they're not in last place.

 

[GKJ]

Toronto got Tavares, who's having a career year, and they're not in last place.

As I said, it's something you do when you think you're one or two pieces away.

 

[baudib1]

As I said, it's something you do when you think you're one or two pieces away.

You didn't say that at all.

So are you on record for being against signing Panarin?

 

[GKJ]

You didn't say that at all.

So are you on record for being against signing Panarin?

Almost word-for-word from the post you quoted by me.

Panarin is very probably going to New York, it's not something I'm concerned about.

 

[phil162888]

You didn't say that at all.

So are you on record for being against signing Panarin?

I'm on the record not to sign Panarin unless you get rid of JVR or Voracek maybe both. Spending $35 million on JVR, Voracek, G and Panarin is beyond idiotic. We need to build this team properly. We need a young superstar.... Patrick was supposed to be that guy. He still may become a very good player (I have faith) but likely not the face of the franchise.

 

[Larry44]

We got a big free agent last summer and we're in last place. You don't build your team around free agents, and the vast majority of 'big' free agents are far more trouble than they're worth. Getting the big free agent is something you do when you think you're one or two pieces away.

JVR was a stupid signing of a soft, lazy piece of crap. He can score oodles of goals if you give him great setups back door/open net on the PP. Otherwise completely f'ing useless and, in fact, a detriment to the team D concept and a bad example for young players.

 

[GKJ]

JVR was a stupid signing of a soft, lazy piece of crap. He can score oodles of goals if you give him great setups back door/open net on the PP. Otherwise completely f'ing useless and, in fact, a detriment to the team D concept and a bad example for young players.

I've got no problem moving on from him

 

[Larry44]

I've got no problem moving on from him

Do you think anyone would take him? What would it cost us to get rid of the contract?

 

[GKJ]

Do you think anyone would take him? What would it cost us to get rid of the contract?

I still think you can do a hockey trade on that one and they’ll be looking for nhl players regardless. Plus, as long as Peter Chiarelli is employed, there’s always hope for the best.

 

[phil162888]

JVR was a stupid signing of a soft, lazy piece of crap. He can score oodles of goals if you give him great setups back door/open net on the PP. Otherwise completely f'ing useless and, in fact, a detriment to the team D concept and a bad example for young players.

Larry you and I are on the same page. Hextall's farewell gift...jacka**

If its true that 10 plus teams were in on him when he was a UFA then I think he will be easy to move. If a team needs a big PP presence that can score in close with a great playmaking C then JVR is perfect. Just not perfect here in Philly. Still can't believe that Hextall figured we needed him. He doesn't fit this teams needs at all. Got burned for saying that this off season if memory serves me correctly.

JVR playing with Barzal would be a good fit. Columbus- Colorado- Edmonton- Florida all could be good fits as well. May have to eat a million to get a decent return

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Larry you and I are on the same page. Hextall's farewell gift...jacka**

If its true that 10 plus teams were in on him when he was a UFA then I think he will be easy to move. If a team needs a big PP presence that can score in close with a great playmaking C then JVR is perfect. Just not perfect here in Philly. Still can't believe that Hextall figured we needed him. He doesn't fit this teams needs at all. Got burned for saying that this off season if memory serves me correctly.

JVR playing with Barzal would be a good fit. Columbus- Colorado- Edmonton- Florida all could be good fits as well. May have to eat a million to get a decent return

We definitely needed an upgrade at 2LW and that's what he was supposed to be. He's just had a terrible year. Once Simmer is gone, his presence falls perfectly into place (again: if he was producing as planned). He was the top goal-scoring winger on the market and we needed goals -- what doesn't make sense about that?

Let's not pretend the signing made zero sense folks. It's hindsight 20/20 right now because he hasn't played up to the contract rather than it being a stupid signing altogether.

 

[baudib1]

I'm on the record not to sign Panarin unless you get rid of JVR or Voracek maybe both. Spending $35 million on JVR, Voracek, G and Panarin is beyond idiotic. We need to build this team properly. We need a young superstar.... Patrick was supposed to be that guy. He still may become a very good player (I have faith) but likely not the face of the franchise.

Look, the Joe Banner Salary Cap Cup doesn't exist.

 

[phil162888]

We definitely needed an upgrade at 2LW and that's what he was supposed to be. He's just had a terrible year. Once Simmer is gone, his presence falls perfectly into place (again: if he was producing as planned). He was the top goal-scoring winger on the market and we needed goals -- what doesn't make sense about that?

Let's not pretend the signing made zero sense folks. It's hindsight 20/20 right now because he hasn't played up to the contract rather than it being a stupid signing altogether.

The issue we have with our forwards now is exactly the same as last year...exactly

We were (a) soft up front (b) don't play good in our own end (c) lacked a true sniper (d) don't play with speed (weak transition). So we go and spend $7 million on a player that

(a) plays soft
(b) Doesn't play good in his own end
(c) Not a quick skater
(d) scores 95% of his goals by deflection and rebounds (we have Simmer and Patrick has shown ability to do this). He doesn't have a big shot

So tell me again why Larry and I are wrong??? I'm not saying he's a horrible player he is a 30 goal scorer easy on the right team... were currently not that team. Hopefully your right about next year (maybe Frost or Hughes can compliment him?) but to say that the signing was justified is just plain wrong. Money could and should be spent on a quality goalie... quality dman or quality Center all glaring holes (still one year later).

 

[Embiid]

Holmgren did a nice job on the reset with shipping Cartsie and Richie out for these two...but like Holmgren's GM tenure....the expiration date is past due....particularly with Simmonds. Hopefully, we can recoup some of their value to help us move forward after this putrid season thus far...

 

[phil162888]

Look, the Joe Banner Salary Cap Cup doesn't exist.

Key to winning a cup in a cap world is spending your dollars appropriately. Your big cap hits have to be players that can lead your team and that are elite players. Panarin/Voracek and JVR having 3 big contracts on wingers is not a recipe for a cup. One of them ....maybe 2 i'm ok with but definitely not 3. Trade JVR and I'm all for it

 

[baudib1]

The issue we have with our forwards now is exactly the same as last year...exactly

We were (a) soft up front (b) don't play good in our own end (c) lacked a true sniper (d) don't play with speed (weak transition). So we go and spend $7 million on a player that

(a) plays soft
(b) Doesn't play good in his own end
(c) Not a quick skater
(d) scores 95% of his goals by deflection and rebounds (we have Simmer and Patrick has shown ability to do this). He doesn't have a big shot

So tell me again why Larry and I are wrong??? I'm not saying he's a horrible player he is a 30 goal scorer easy on the right team... were currently not that team. Hopefully your right about next year (maybe Frost or Hughes can compliment him?) but to say that the signing was justified is just plain wrong. Money could and should be spent on a quality goalie... quality dman or quality Center all glaring holes (still one year later).

The number of 30-goal scoring wingers who can play defense and who have been available over the past two seasons is 1, I believe. Max Pacioretty. Vegas paid a hefty price for him and most here would have balked at it.

JVR, like Voracek, is a proven consistent scorer who also has historically dominated from a play-driving standpoint over the course of his career.

Who do you want to replace him with?

 

[phil162888]

The number of 30-goal scoring wingers who can play defense and who have been available over the past two seasons is 1, I believe. Max Pacioretty. Vegas paid a hefty price for him and most here would have balked at it.

JVR, like Voracek, is a proven consistent scorer who also has historically dominated from a play-driving standpoint over the course of his career.

Who do you want to replace him with?

I'd prefer Panarin, Duschene, Karllson,Skinner or even Mats Zuccarello. I don't hate the guy, hopefully teams want him and we can get a great return for him. Like I said good player just doesn't fit our team right now imo that's why I don't get why we went so hard after him. Playing with Marner got him 5-10 more goals easy. Anyone watching the Leafs could tell you that

 

[Striiker]

The issue we have with our forwards now is exactly the same as last year...exactly

We were (a) soft up front (b) don't play good in our own end (c) lacked a true sniper (d) don't play with speed (weak transition). So we go and spend $7 million on a player that

(a) plays soft
(b) Doesn't play good in his own end
(c) Not a quick skater
(d) scores 95% of his goals by deflection and rebounds (we have Simmer and Patrick has shown ability to do this). He doesn't have a big shot

So tell me again why Larry and I are wrong??? I'm not saying he's a horrible player he is a 30 goal scorer easy on the right team... were currently not that team. Hopefully your right about next year (maybe Frost or Hughes can compliment him?) but to say that the signing was justified is just plain wrong. Money could and should be spent on a quality goalie... quality dman or quality Center all glaring holes (still one year later).

I just want to point out something important you got right here:

The bold is a key distinction. The team isn't slow, they play slow.

Being physically slow isn't fixable, playing slow is. A new coach and a new system will do wonders. Hakstols was a joke and Gordons is too. The coaching improved but it's still horrific.

 

[phil162888]

If you want to use JVR properly you either put him in Couts spot on the PP or in Simmonds spot. How our coaches haven't done that is freaking amazing. I just don't know where he fits in our regular lineup. G doesn't work same with Patrick maybe Couts and Konecny. That may work or Couts and Voracek

 

[baudib1]

I'd prefer Panarin, Duschene, Karllson,Skinner or even Mats Zuccarello. I don't hate the guy, hopefully teams want him and we can get a great return for him. Like I said good player just doesn't fit our team right now imo that's why I don't get why we went so hard after him. Playing with Marner got him 5-10 more goals easy. Anyone watching the Leafs could tell you that

We're going after Panarin in the offseason. Duchene and Karlsson are centers. Skinner would have been a good add but he was a trade not a FA signing.

The biggest criticism of the Flyers' offense for years was that it played a perimeter style of play. JVR is the polar opposite of a perimeter scorer.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Meh, I don't have a problem with JVR. We can't score goals, so it makes sense to keep him.

If our idiot coaches would use him properly, he'd be fine.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Maybe target the Avs own 1st this year, as they have the lotto ticket with the Sens pick.

Dangle JVR or Simmer. Or do we try and buy low on Nylander ?

Simmer, Haag or Gudas and 2020 2nd for Nylander ?

 

[bennysflyers16]

Meh, I don't have a problem with JVR. We can't score goals, so it makes sense to keep him.

If our idiot coaches would use him properly, he'd be fine.

This is true, the fact that we have a laughable league bottom PP and they refuse to use our best net front PP guy is criminal.

There are only 2 explanations for this, complete incompetence or they are truly trying to boost his value.