Simmonds and Voracek time to go

[ponder719]

Yeah, the only way trading Giroux should ever be a consideration is if Chiarelli calls and tells us he needs to get McDavid out of Mandog's locker room.

Whatever happens, hopefully Chuck will get value back in the deal. That's always been my concern; we've reached a point where we look desperate, and that's when the deals start looking like Chia specials.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Voracek does not and should not be moved. He's been fine but really, outside of Giroux, the team has been struggling to put up points. Keep in mind, Voracek is second in points on the team. The Flyers have only 4 players that have broken the 20 points on the season so far. They are struggling to keep pucks out on the PK due to the shitty PK coach and they are having issues with the PP due to Knoblauch's coaching. When your special teams fail, you lose games and the player don't score anywhere near where they should be.

Simmonds' time is up and I think he should be and will be traded at the trade deadline for a pick. I'm hoping we get a late 1st or maybe a decent RW prospect that has yet to get into the NHL yet. I think Simmonds would be a perfect 2RW for the Flames, but they don't have the cap space for someone like that and I doubt they would want to trade someone as they are doing quite well this year. The Avs could use someone like him as well on the RW right behind Rantanen. If the Sabres are gunning for it, I could see them have Simmonds right behind or swap with Reinhart on the top line. The Islanders have terrible RW depth and I could maybe see them wanting someone like Simmonds for a pick or prospect.

Just some thoughts about Simmonds. But yeah, Voracek goes no where and neither does JVR.

Would any of the above teams also work? Boston can work too as their depth outside of Pastrnak is not good.

 

[Striiker]

So have Giroux play with the Flyers all of his career and zero Cups means what???
Trading Giroux to a Cup contender...for his benefit and personal achievement and the Flyers getting back a substantial package for us to compete and contend for a Cup makes absolute hockey sense!
Yes?

No, you improve the team around him so he’s not carrying 18 people on his back every night.

The team isn’t far away and it should easily be able to compete before Giroux is done. Keeping him is obviously the correct move. He’s not going anywhere.

 

[Tripod]

A Boston fan said Simmonds has been talked about in their trade thread. So I went looking. Found this offer"

3) Simmonds and Elliot - Simmonds fills a huge void at RW, propose we give up Rask, one of Lauzon/Zboril or Clifton, ZS(Senyshyn) and a mid round pick if Simmonds resigns with us.

Christ I would take that in a heartbeat!!

Would give us a starting goalie for 2 more years to bridge to Hart.
Anther D prospect for the AHl next year that can get re-called without worrying about waivers
Senyshyn who has underperformed, but is a shooter and maybe the change of scenery makes a difference

Regardless, just for Rask I do it and the rest is just potential upside.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah we will know more about all that as the season goes on. I have said before, I personally would like that 1 spot left open for the kids to fight over....or to add someone significant thru FA...like a Panarin. We have enough lower end depth guys that will be ready to help next year. So adding more doesn't make a ton of sense. We need more of the top end guys that pushes everyone downward.

If a guy like Allison can't make the Flyers because we signed Panarin, so be it...lol. But to re-sign Raffl for example like some have mentioned, makes no sense to me. Give the kids a chance if you strike out on getting the big fish.

Even if Panarin is here, I think I’d give Allison a spot over a few guys currently here. I’m willing to risk a short term downgrade (if he struggles to start) to bet on his potential.

Maybe something like

G-Couts-TK
Panarin-Patrick-Voracek
Lindblom-Frost-Allison
Laughton-Vorobyev-NAK

I’m probably forgetting someone but you get my point.

 

[Tripod]

Even if Panarin is here, I think I’d give Allison a spot over a few guys currently here. I’m willing to risk a short term downgrade (if he struggles to start) to bet on his potential.

Maybe something like

G-Couts-TK
Panarin-Patrick-Voracek
Lindblom-Frost-Allison
Laughton-Vorobyev-NAK

I’m probably forgetting someone but you get my point.

lol....yeah missing...JVR

that's the thing...we really could use a Panarin type. But that comes at closing a spot for someone. But if you are adding Panarin, who cares. It's why re-signing Raffl makes no sense to me. Closing a spot for Allison or another kid for Raffl just seems pointless. I would rather just dress Weise for a month until a kid is ready and scratch Goule...lol.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Teams aren’t going to take on large contracts & give you top value back on top of it. If you’re trading guys like Giroux & Voracek teams are going to be looking to take advantage of your situation. They’re going to give you 50 cents on the dollar with those two & make you eat some salary in some way. So unless your mindset is just f*** it we’re starting over there’s going to be no fantasy moving these guys & replacing them quickly through those trades. The best thing they could do for you is legitimately make you a contender for the bottom for multiple years & give you a better standing in the lottery.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Jvr 7
Jake 8.2
Panarin 11
G 8.2
TK 3 bridge

Way too much for wingers imo. But if you do go that route, agree you can’t pay Raffls over 2 mill.

 

[Appleyard]

Voracek does not and should not be moved. He's been fine but really, outside of Giroux, the team has been struggling to put up points. Keep in mind, Voracek is second in points on the team. The Flyers have only 4 players that have broken the 20 points on the season so far. They are struggling to keep pucks out on the PK due to the ****ty PK coach and they are having issues with the PP due to Knoblauch's coaching. When your special teams fail, you lose games and the player don't score anywhere near where they should be.

Simmonds' time is up and I think he should be and will be traded at the trade deadline for a pick. I'm hoping we get a late 1st or maybe a decent RW prospect that has yet to get into the NHL yet. I think Simmonds would be a perfect 2RW for the Flames, but they don't have the cap space for someone like that and I doubt they would want to trade someone as they are doing quite well this year. The Avs could use someone like him as well on the RW right behind Rantanen. If the Sabres are gunning for it, I could see them have Simmonds right behind or swap with Reinhart on the top line. The Islanders have terrible RW depth and I could maybe see them wanting someone like Simmonds for a pick or prospect.

Just some thoughts about Simmonds. But yeah, Voracek goes no where and neither does JVR.



Would any of the above teams also work? Boston can work too as their depth outside of Pastrnak is not good.

I think they could. He would likely be 2RW for them all.

 

[dingbathero]

Do not want breadman at 11m

 

[Philly Fanatik]

No, you improve the team around him so he’s not carrying 18 people on his back every night.

The team isn’t far away and it should easily be able to compete before Giroux is done. Keeping him is obviously the correct move. He’s not going anywhere.

“ The team isn’t that far away” from what,by?
They are one point out of last place on New Year’s Day 2019!

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

This whole season is/has been a clusterf*** at this point. If you’re going to fire as many people as you did including the GM & HC you don’t do it in the season. You do it in the offseason.

The best thing the Flyers could do is having a similar mindset to the 2007 season & offseason. Move whatever expiring contracts you have no intentions of bringing back along with any of the deadweight & call-up a young to guy to replace the player in the lineup. Re-group in the offseason with the UFA pool & the trade front to improve this roster.

 

[TimThomas24]

What do you guys think is fair value for Simmonds at this point. I don’t need specific names of players but just what you think his trade value is.

 

[Jettany]

I don't go for Bjork....as I think a RW should be the target in a Simmonds return.

Giroux Couts Jake
JVR Patrick Konecny
Lindblom Frost ????
Laughton ???? ????
Weise

And even if Giroux is at C, it likely means Frost starts at LW

Move jake down to 3rd line if panarin can be had in FA? Kubel and a surprise rounds out 4th line.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

What do you guys think is fair value for Simmonds at this point. I don’t need specific names of players but just what you think his trade value is.

Lucky if we get a 2nd at this point!

 

[Appleyard]

Lucky if we get a 2nd at this point!

They will get more than that. He is still on pace for 24 goals... and teams always overpay.

Plekanec got a 2nd+ last year... and Nash was having a similar/worse year and got a 1st+++

 

[Tripod]

Move jake down to 3rd line if panarin can be had in FA? Kubel and a surprise rounds out 4th line.

No.

Panarin to LW....move Lindblom to RW

Mix the lines depending who you are playing against.

 

[Jettany]

Even if Panarin is here, I think I’d give Allison a spot over a few guys currently here. I’m willing to risk a short term downgrade (if he struggles to start) to bet on his potential.

Maybe something like

G-Couts-TK
Panarin-Patrick-Voracek
Lindblom-Frost-Allison
Laughton-Vorobyev-NAK

I’m probably forgetting someone but you get my point.

What exactly was rubtsovs injury to his shoulders? He looked really effective/smart in preseason. Think he fits the 4c role better.

Can always flip tk and Panarin and keep the young buddies together.

 

[Jettany]

What do you guys think is fair value for Simmonds at this point. I don’t need specific names of players but just what you think his trade value is.

2nd and a 3rd/ underachieving higher pick prospect. To isles for a 2 and ho-sang.

 

[Striiker]

“ The team isn’t that far away” from what,by?
They are one point out of last place on New Year’s Day 2019!

Look at the roster.
Look at what holes need to be filled.
There’s not many.

As has been repeated multiple times now, the real problems are coaching (should be improved over the summer), the PK (will be improved by new coaches), and goaltending (Hart just needs experience).

 

[Jettany]

No.

Panarin to LW....move Lindblom to RW

Mix the lines depending who you are playing against.

Lots of money for a 3rd liner. But 3 lines deep. Big time.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

I know...but f***!

 

[GKJ]

With a new GM who isn't attached to most of these players, the decision has to be made which parts of the team have to be changed? Were guys like Patrick and Lindblom and the like oversold - they have not yielded results so what is the reason for this? Is the aging veteran core, which before this stretch generally have performed well. We saw how many guys had career years last year. But a veteran group doesn't stay together when they go 7 years running between playoff series wins. It just doesn't. As good as some of the actual players may be, it's not helping anyone if it doesn't result in team success.

When Hextall took over and finally went through with a draft-and-develop plan, that it did not coincide with the prime years of our best players. That was the risk, but it was also not a secret. Hextall being overprotective of all the young players - it wasn't helping Giroux/Voracek/Simmonds/etc. win a Cup in any of the last 4 years. A 12-14 months ago they were a year away from making some absolute determinations as to where we were.

Now, I don't think this thing is getting burned down. If Holmgren and Dave Scott were ok with that, they probably wouldn't have fired Hextall. They might end up in the tank this year, but I'm sure they will be very aggressive in the off-season to retool this team. With that said, with regard to Giroux - and of course keeping in mind his contract, the question at this moment in time that needs to be answered is not who can we get to put with Giroux to make this work. It's going to be if Giroux fits with whoever we bring in. And whether it's right now, in July, in a year, if and when the answer is no, then it's time for him to leave. That's the reality here. As it would/should be for anyone else. As good as Giroux is, and despite him being the captain of the team, this is now 4 coaching changes he's been through. Regardless of however much isn't his fault or which coaches were bad - the fact should be that he's out of rope. He needs to figure out his role in a fresh start this organization is going to have over the next 8 months.

 

[Tripod]

Lots of money for a 3rd liner. But 3 lines deep. Big time.

huh?

I said mix the lines as needed depending on the opponent. Panarin would not be on the 3rd line. But with those 9 you can create matchup issues. With Couts, TK, Lindblom, Frost, and Patrick as cheaper, cost controlled contract, you have flexibility.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Lines aren’t rigorous. There’s still specials team, then typically empty net situations, & possibly overtime. If you’re a top player the coaching staff will find you ice time by the end of the game. It doesn’t matter if you’re slotted on the first, second, or third line.

Simmonds hasn’t even been good this year & has found himself slotted on the third line at times but he still ends up getting a lot of ice time by the end of the game regardless.