Sidney Crosby surpassing Alexander Ovechkin in career points watch (UPD: Ovechkin ahead by 6)

[wetcoast]

i am fine with it, since ovy was better the first 10 years of their career... crosby can have the remaining 10 years.

Pretty hard to make the case for Ovechkin over Crosby on their first 10 years.

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[wetcoast]

i am fine with it, since ovy was better the first 10 years of their career... crosby can have the remaining 10 years.

Pretty hard to make the case for Ovechkin over Crosby on their first 10 years.

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

Player Season Finder | Hockey-Reference.com

 

[Randyne]

Not sure about the others but Sid had 41 game stretch before he got injured. He went 32g, 34a, +20 and 55.66 % on face off while playing with dupuis and kunitz. Not only that but in those 41 games, malkin was out for most of them

And yet in those games Malkin generated for Crosby more points than any linemate: 22 points in 36 GP (0.61 P/GP)

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Yet in those games Malkin generated for Crosby more points than any linemate.

Which is the crazier part.

Malkin has 37 pts in 43 GP that season. You know you aren’t playing with good players when the player who generates the most points played like 30~ games at the same time as you.

 

[Randyne]

Which is the crazier part.

Malkin has 37 pts in 43 GP that season. You know you aren’t playing with good players when the player who generates the most points played like 30~ games at the same time as you.

I think Malkin one of the top 3 player since lockout. 2 times leader both in RS and PO. And 1C with 1.32 PPG without Crosby.

 

[Ozz]

Pretty sure tongue was firmly planted in cheek on that one.

Around here, who knows!

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I think Malkin one of the top 3 player since lockout. 2 times leader both in RS and PO. And 1C with 1.32 PPG without Crosby.

I totally agree with your assessment. It doesn’t change the fact that he was playing hurt that year and it showed in the numbers and on the ice.

 

[Pengwins]

Crosby > OV

AINEC

 

[Sam Spade]

Crosby > OV

AINEC

Well that settles it then.

 

[GlitchMarner]

Well that settles it then.

I mean, I was totally unsure until that post finally convinced me once and for all...

 

[george14]

So you still ignore the fact that staying healthy is the same ability of a player as his height, weight, shooting or passing skills? Or the fact that scoring a goal is way harder than making a pass? Or the fact that goals is the only thing that matters in hockey and nobody counts assists to define a winner of a game?
I mean: "The only people who ignoring these facts are guys who never played hockey, period. Or maybe hardcore Crosby fans." (c)

All this argument is saying to me is that the more goals you have, the better player you are. I hope you really don't believe that.

Ovechkin's best attribute aside form his shot would be his durability. It's incredible he has essentially player a full season every year. I tip my cap to him.

Being better defensively than winger is center's direct responsibility on the ice. Why you're evaluating a winger by center's criteria?

Why are we criticizing Crosby's "secondary assists" when he is a playmaker vs. Ovechkin who is a goal scorer?

Like I said earlier, saying Crosby's secondary assists are not as important is essentially saying Ovechkin scores more goals because he takes so many shots. The argument is just stupid.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

All this argument is saying to me is that the more goals you have, the better player you are. I hope you really don't believe that.

Ovechkin's best attribute aside form his shot would be his durability. It's incredible he has essentially player a full season every year. I tip my cap to him.



Why are we criticizing Crosby's "secondary assists" when he is a playmaker vs. Ovechkin who is a goal scorer?

Like I said earlier, saying Crosby's secondary assists are not as important is essentially saying Ovechkin scores more goals because he takes so many shots. The argument is just stupid.

Ovechkin in 08-09 took well over 500 shots. The most in league history and only scored 56

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Ovechkin in 08-09 took well over 500 shots. The most in league history and only scored 56

How many of those shots was the better play called for was a pass. That’s the difference with players like Gretzky, Lemieux, and Crosby made the best percentage play much more often and is why they all averaged much more points per game played compared to anyone in their generations. Crosby has averaged double digits better than any player of his generation in points per game both for regular season and also for playoffs. Seeing the ice better than any player of his generation is why he has that gap. Same for Gretzky and Lemieux.

How often would the Hart not be given to the guy who beats his competition by 15 points.

For career Points per 82 games

Crosby: 39 goals 106 points
Ovechkin: 50 goals 91 points

Then factor in one player plays a much better two way game. Also played with lesser line mates and this discussion is ridiculous. Crosby 5th best ever and Ovechkin not top 10. Would take players outside top 10 like Forsberg, Trottier, and Messier over Ovechkin any day of the week. They had much better overall games and make players better around them because the way they saw the ice and made the best play and also played 200 foot game. Honestly who would start a team with Ovechkin over them. Not only is he not better than Crosby he is not better than many players outside the top 10 all time.

 

[TeeTee]

Crosby > OV

AINEC

You made me read through 30 pages. You should have posted this on page 1.

 

[mrv52]

Ovechkin in 08-09 took well over 500 shots. The most in league history and only scored 56

"Only" chuckle.

 

[Caps8112]

Lets settle the linemates debate by declaring who has played with the worst linemate….

Ovi wins with Joey Crabb...…


Even the almighty Crosby couldn't have used Crabb as a backboard

 

[JJ68]

Ovechkin is a great passer and I could pull up a myriad of plays proving this, but I'm not going to waste my time. Simply put Ovechkins job is to score goals and he's done that better than anyone in the history of the game.

Hmmm not convinced. Gonna take more than a note from mom.

 

[Plural]

Hmmm not convinced. Gonna take more than a note from mom.

Are you really questioning Ovechkin's passing abilities? He's no Thornton, Sedin or Sid but he's more than good in passing game too.

 

[JJ68]

And yes shooting percentage means jack I'll give you that. You could have a goon get a lucky goal but he only took 7 shots all year and his shooting percentage is better than a goalscorer. Naturally you might have a lower percentage if you take way more shots.

Its like Jagr....the guy is a beast and one of the greatest offensive forces ever, but because he has played so many more games in his ancient years, naturally his points per game go down. You have to take certain stats with a grain of salt and look at them objectively.

 

[JJ68]

Are you really questioning Ovechkin's passing abilities? He's no Thornton, Sedin or Sid but he's more than good in passing game too.

Just judging based on stats. He wouldnt have been caught had he been able to pile on more assists. 20 and 21 assists is laughable for a "playmaker" who doesnt get injured.

 

[Plural]

Just judging based on stats. He wouldnt have been caught had he been able to pile on more assists. 20 and 21 assists is laughable for a "playmaker" who doesnt get injured.

He's not a playmaker though. He's the purest goalscorer in the game (maybe after Laine). But he's still capable of making plays and his assists capabilities are above average first line winger.

Back in his peak, he was actually pretty f***ing great playmaker. But those days are gone.

 

[JJ68]

I said he wasn't a playmaker earlier and thus the lack of assists. I wasnt bashing him over it, just saying that the more well rounded offensive player was able to catch him in way less games because he is well, more well rounded.

 

[Ridley Simon]

How many of those shots was the better play called for was a pass. That’s the difference with players like Gretzky, Lemieux, and Crosby made the best percentage play much more often and is why they all averaged much more points per game played compared to anyone in their generations. Crosby has averaged double digits better than any player of his generation in points per game both for regular season and also for playoffs. Seeing the ice better than any player of his generation is why he has that gap. Same for Gretzky and Lemieux.

How often would the Hart not be given to the guy who beats his competition by 15 points.

For career Points per 82 games

Crosby: 39 goals 106 points
Ovechkin: 50 goals 91 points

Then factor in one player plays a much better two way game. Also played with lesser line mates and this discussion is ridiculous. Crosby 5th best ever and Ovechkin not top 10. Would take players outside top 10 like Forsberg, Trottier, and Messier over Ovechkin any day of the week. They had much better overall games and make players better around them because the way they saw the ice and made the best play and also played 200 foot game. Honestly who would start a team with Ovechkin over them. Not only is he not better than Crosby he is not better than many players outside the top 10 all time.

Points per game. Huh

Welp, there are like 1.6 assists per goal. So 1.6 to 1.

Yet you would have us believe that somehow 1 assist = 1 goal.

So those that “just score goals” are aleays going to measure up worse — numerically — than those that gets assists.

Huh.

 

[Plural]

I said he wasn't a playmaker earlier and thus the lack of assists. I wasnt bashing him over it, just saying that the more well rounded offensive player was able to catch him in way less games because he is well, more well rounded.

Oh yeah, Sid is obviously more well rounded and most of all, more consistent performer. If we're comparing Ovechkin's playmaking to Crosby then sure, he comes off looking quite bad. But if we compare him to average 1st line winger he comes off looking pretty good.

 

[Dessloch]

Ovechkin is the GOAT when it comes to empty net goals, thats for sure!