Sidney Crosby surpassing Alexander Ovechkin in career points watch (UPD: Ovechkin ahead by 6)

[daver]

Crosby has scored goals too you know and Ovie has gotten assists. You act like all of Ovies points are goals.

If you would like to include goals as being worth 1.6 to make it more fair then Crosby still wins.

Crosby: 904 GP, 690 G, 738 A = 1,428 PTS
PPG = 1.58

Ovie: 1,046 GP, 1,022 G, 532 A = 1,554 PTS
PPG = 1.49

How many times has Crosby gotten awarded 1.6 assists on a goal? Maybe he should considering he has been able to carry his line regardless of deployment and linemates.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Two of the GOATs. While Crosby has caused me an unhealthy level of heartburn and indigestion over the years I think it's pretty cool that I got to watch two of the best compete against each other for over a decade, with one of them being on my favorite team.

This. Exactly this. 100%

 

[Yackiberg8]

How many times has Crosby gotten awarded 1.6 assists on a goal? Maybe he should considering he has been able to carry his line regardless of deployment and linemates.

I’m catering to the prior posters comment that there is 1.6 assists for every goal to show him even having goals worth 1.6 and assists worth 1, Crosby is still better.

 

[TomDelonge]

That's the thing most fanboys don't get. I honestly can't wait 10-15 years down the line when they sit Crosby and Ovechkin in a room and talk to them for an hour. I bet you they'll both be laughing at this Sid vs Ovie stuff. It'll be awesome just to see these two guys chatting about the past.

Despite the rivalry there is a mutual respect between the two. They both know that good or bad, they will forever be linked and historians will look back on them with admiration and awe.

It's a shame that many are too busy bickering about their favorite players to do likewise.

Couldn't agree more. Can't wait for that special. I am sure the 2009 series will be brought up, that one is still the most memorable.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby has scored goals too you know and Ovie has gotten assists. You act like all of Ovies points are goals.

If you would like to include goals as being worth 1.6 to make it more fair then Crosby still wins.

Crosby: 904 GP, 690 G, 738 A = 1,428 PTS
PPG = 1.58

Ovie: 1,046 GP, 1,022 G, 532 A = 1,554 PTS
PPG = 1.49

This is unnecessary and the whole 2nd assists thing has we debunked earlier in this thread.

Shooting % goes up notably from unassisted to a single assist to a double pass SOG.

 

[Yackiberg8]

This is unnecessary and the whole 2nd assists thing has we debunked earlier in this thread.

Shooting % goes up notably from unassisted to a single assist to a double pass SOG.

??

You’re not getting the point of my post.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Ovechkin’s passing abilities are just as good as Crosby’s defense. Not great, not average, just good.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Crosby is not the greatest talent though, his ex teammate has even said this. Brooks Orpik himself said he's played with guys more talented that Sid but he's the hardest worker he's ever seen. Also, talent doesn't mean everything, a lot of talented guys have never fulfilled that, Alexei Kovalev comes to mind.

I don't think calling Crosby most talented does him justice. Great talent for sure but the NHL is full of them. He's intelligent, has an elite feel for the play and pace of the game, incredible balance and center of gravity, does everything well and is one of the games greatest clutch performers.

I personally think he is the most talented player to have played thus far with maybe McDavid coming behind him

Its all personal opinion though - and its BEST not GREATEST, Gretzky is the GREATEST still but I think Crosby is the BEST

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovechkin’s passing abilities are just as good as Crosby’s defense. Not great, not average, just good.

Ovechkin is 12th in assists since the lockout.

Crosby isn't top 200 in defense.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Ovechkin is 12th in assists since the lockout.

Crosby isn't top 200 in defense.

Have you watched a Penguins game since 2016? Serious question, btw.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Have you watched a Penguins game since 2016? Serious question, btw.

Nobody ever pretended Crosby was good at defense until his offense fell off. It's pretty obviously to compensate.

Crosby is currently 5th on the Pens for centers, ice time on the PK.

 

[nowhereman]

Ovechkin is 12th in assists since the lockout.

Crosby isn't top 200 in defense.

That's nonesense. He's been in the Selke conversation this year and has been so in the past, with even Scotty Bowman saying that Sid deserved consideration. No he's not Bergeron or Gainey but he's still a very capable defensive center.

 

[Midnight Judges]

That's nonesense. He's been in the Selke conversation this year and has been so in the past, with even Scotty Bowman saying that Sid deserved consideration. No he's not Bergeron or Gainey but he's still a very capable defensive center.

Ovechkin has received Selke votes as well.

Sid also received several Lady Byng "sportsmanship" votes a mere two Months after deliberately smacking a player in the balls with his stick from behind, and hacking another guy's finger tip off on a deliberate slash.

Sid belongs nowhere near any Selke discussions. The sole reason his name comes up is raging bias. There are hundreds of players who are superior to Sid in their own zone (not that Sid is asked to play much defense anyway) and on the PK (Sid is 387th in PK TOI).

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Nobody ever pretended Crosby was good at defense until his offense fell off. It's pretty obviously to compensate.

Crosby is currently 5th on the Pens for centers, ice time on the PK.

So you are going to pretend there are 200 forwards that are better than Sidney Crosby defensively? You are going to be that dense... just to try and prove a "point" that isn't there? That's your way of refuting that the main thing Ovechkin really has on Crosby (goals), Crosby is still second in the ENTIRE LEAGUE since the 04-05 lockout? I would say ONLY thing, but then you'd show me highlights of hits.

So ice time on the PK is an indicator of good defensive play? Crosby is on the ice at the end of games all the time. He is there for most of the important defensive zone face offs. He is deployed, at home, against the opposition best line CONSISTENTLY since 2015. If you watched him play, you'd know Crosby recuperates quite a few pucks down low and supports his defensemen VERY WELL (yes, that's his job as a center and he is doing it WELL, very well!) In the last few weeks, Sid AND Guentzel (yes, Guentzel) are seeing more PK time.

I am not saying Crosby is definitely a Selke candidate, because that would be a difficult case to make, but saying that 200 forwards are better than him defensively is just... a weird hot take (to stay polite). There are 124 "regular" centers in the NHL, so not only ALL of them would be better than Sid defensively, but at least 75 wingers also would (which would be more than 2 wingers per team). Basically, to you, Crosby is not even average defensively. That's just dumb.

 

[kladorf2005]

Crosby isn't top 200 in defense.

Troll much? Undeniably, the best all-around player of his generation, isn't top 200? Okay

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Ovechkin is 12th in assists since the lockout.

Crosby isn't top 200 in defense.

That’s laughable, even by your standards. The number of assists doesn’t necessarily correlate with the ability of a player

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Crosby has scored goals too you know and Ovie has gotten assists. You act like all of Ovies points are goals.

If you would like to include goals as being worth 1.6 to make it more fair then Crosby still wins.

Crosby: 904 GP, 690 G, 738 A = 1,428 PTS
PPG = 1.58

Ovie: 1,046 GP, 1,022 G, 532 A = 1,554 PTS
PPG = 1.49

Thank you for doing this. I’m sure no one will have a proper comeback to this.

 

[Midnight Judges]

So you are going to pretend there are 200 forwards that are better than Sidney Crosby defensively? You are going to be that dense... just to try and prove a "point" that isn't there? That's your way of refuting that the main thing Ovechkin really has on Crosby (goals), Crosby is still second in the ENTIRE LEAGUE since the 04-05 lockout? I would say ONLY thing, but then you'd show me highlights of hits.

Indeed I would, except unlike Sid's defensive highlights, Ovechkin actually is a physically dominant player and unlike Sid's alleged defense, there are statistics to back this up.

I've seen Sid's defensive highlight reel - if you could call it that. Ultra weak.

So ice time on the PK is an indicator of good defensive play?

It is one indicator, yes.

Guys like Courturier, Kopitar, Toews, Barkov - you know, the players players who actually deserve to be in the Selke conversation all play the PK exponentially more than Sid.

Crosby is on the ice at the end of games all the time. He is there for most of the important defensive zone face offs. He is deployed, at home, against the opposition best line CONSISTENTLY since 2015. If you watched him play, you'd know Crosby recuperates quite a few pucks down low and supports his defensemen VERY WELL (yes, that's his job as a center and he is doing it WELL, very well!)

Huh. Somebody should have told him that in the playoffs last year. He didn't seem to be aware of these responsibilities while his team was giving up crucial goals late in games.

Interestingly enough, Riley Sheahan was able to get back and play defense.

I am not saying Crosby is definitely a Selke candidate, because that would be a difficult case to make, but saying that 200 forwards are better than him defensively is just... a weird hot take (to stay polite). There are 124 "regular" centers in the NHL, so not only ALL of them would be better than Sid defensively, but at least 75 wingers also would (which would be more than 2 wingers per team). Basically, to you, Crosby is not even average defensively. That's just dumb.

I don't know why you assume all regular centers would make the top 200 in terms of defensive forwards. There are tons of wingers who are far superior to centers at defense. I wouldn't put Kuznetsov in the top 200 for the Selke but his winger Tom Wilson ought to be top 30.

Also, Sid ranked 146th for centers only PK TOI last season. So apparently there are dozens of irregular scrub centers doing more penalty killing than Sid.

There are all sorts of scrubs who put in more effort in their own zone than Sid.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I am not saying he is top 10 or a deserving Selke candidate (if he gets a lot of vote, that would be a narrative and not necessarily). But your stance is ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Lomez]

Indeed I would, except unlike Sid's defensive highlights, Ovechkin actually is a physically dominant player and unlike Sid's alleged defense, there are statistics to back this up.

I've seen Sid's defensive highlight reel - if you could call it that. Ultra weak.



It is one indicator, yes.

Guys like Courturier, Kopitar, Toews, Barkov - you know, the players players who actually deserve to be in the Selke conversation all play the PK exponentially more than Sid.



Huh. Somebody should have told him that in the playoffs last year. He didn't seem to be aware of these responsibilities while his team was giving up crucial goals late in games.

Interestingly enough, Riley Sheahan was able to get back and play defense.



I don't know why you assume all regular centers would make the top 200 in terms of defensive forwards. There are tons of wingers who are far superior to centers at defense. I wouldn't put Kuznetsov in the top 200 for the Selke but his winger Tom Wilson ought to be top 30.

Also, Sid ranked 146th for centers only PK TOI last season. So apparently there are dozens of irregular scrub centers doing more penalty killing than Sid.

There are all sorts of scrubs who put in more effort in their own zone than Sid.

Interesting. In your moving fanboy smorgasbord of anti-Sid narratives (2nd assists, doesn't score goals, fragile, etc.) contrived to bolster 8's preeminence (as if its needed, another great player by the way), all of which have been roundly dismissed, all you're left with is that Sid can't play defense, i.e., something that can't really be quantified. Dude, who cares? Why don't you people just enjoy the game?

 

[Rodgerwilco]

Have you watched a Penguins game since 2016? Serious question, btw.

MJ here will never, ever, ever, ever, ever give Crosby credit as even a decent defensive player. It seems that he has one series (Last year vs. The Capitals) stuck in his mind and that is what he bases his entire opinion on Crosby's defensive ability off of.

Interesting. In your moving fanboy smorgasbord of anti-Sid narratives (2nd assists, doesn't score goals, fragile, etc.) contrived to bolster 8's preeminence (as if its needed, another great player by the way), all of which have been roundly dismissed, all you're left with is that Sid can't play defense, i.e., something that can't really be quantified. Dude, who cares? Why don't you people just enjoy the game?

Lomez, you get my golden star for the day. Great comment.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Ovechkin has received Selke votes as well.

Sid also received several Lady Byng "sportsmanship" votes a mere two Months after deliberately smacking a player in the balls with his stick from behind, and hacking another guy's finger tip off on a deliberate slash.

Sid belongs nowhere near any Selke discussions. The sole reason his name comes up is raging bias. There are hundreds of players who are superior to Sid in their own zone (not that Sid is asked to play much defense anyway) and on the PK (Sid is 387th in PK TOI).

I don't know what the hell your point is.

Crosby was trying to help curb the overpopulation on earth, one scrotum at a time

 

[Rodgerwilco]

I don't know what the hell your point is.

Crosby was trying to help curb the overpopulation on earth, one scrotum at a time

Didn't you know that Sidney Crosby is the first and only player to ever cup-check someone or to slash another player in the gloves, and that a routine slash to the gloves that is seen literally dozens of times in a game makes him human scum?

 

[Midnight Judges]

MJ here will never, ever, ever, ever, ever give Crosby credit as even a decent defensive player.

If by decent you mean fairly average, then sure.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Interesting. In your moving fanboy smorgasbord of anti-Sid narratives (2nd assists, doesn't score goals, fragile, etc.) contrived to bolster 8's preeminence (as if its needed, another great player by the way), all of which have been roundly dismissed, all you're left with is that Sid can't play defense, i.e., something that can't really be quantified. Dude, who cares? Why don't you people just enjoy the game?

Show a post where I said Sid doesn't score goals.

Sid is a great goal scorer. It's no shame to him that Ovechkin has 48% more goals.