Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Filthy Dangles, Dec 31, 2018.
Whats the empty net goal % of their goal totals respectively?
6.26 to 5.16 for Gretzky.
56 goals to 33 goals.
Shouldn't the thread be updated now that Secondary Sidney is back where he belongs?
Just think of an empty net goal as a primary assist to a much smaller more far away player who can't move his stick to receive the puck and you'll learn to appreciate it.
As of right now Ovi has over 200 more goals. It's not even close in that regard. Ovi is still ahead on points as well, and The majority of Ovi's points are goals, as opposed to Crosby, who's total is lopsided in assists.
Sid has over 400 goals. In no way are his totals lopsided.
Would Crosby have put up a bunch of 50-60+ goal seasons if he never got a concussion in 2011?
2009-2010: 81 gp - 51 goals
2010-2011: 41 gp - 32 goals
Have a hard time believing a guy who only has 1 50 goal season was magically going to have "a bunch" of 50-60 goal seasons.
Theres nothing out of the ordinary with Ovechkins empty net goals. He have a percentage of 5,16% of his goals beeing empty netters.
Heres a list of some other players % ENG:
B. Wheeler - 9,17%
Backes - 9,13%
Marchand - 9,09%
Hossa - 7,62%
E. Staal - 7,35%
J. Thornton - 6,91%
Gretzky - 6,26%
Parise - 6,25%
Malkin - 5,48%
Bure - 5,34%
Ovechkin - 5,16%
Iginla - 5,12%
Lemieux - 4,78%
Crosby - 3,94%
Then if you want to exclude ENG perhaps some have a record of assists on empty nets. Thats even more a garbage point than an ENG. An ENG puts the game away and a lot of players arent able to put it in the net from their own side. Its some players you know gonna give up an icing if they try the shot while others you know the game is won when they release the shot. We give points for secondary assists that Im unsure on average is more worth than an ENG so it would be pretty weird if an ENG had not given a point.
He would have scored 50 or maybe even 60 in that infamous 41 game season. So, not a bunch but at least one more.
Ovechkin is the BEST scorer ever, as of now
Crosby is the BEST talent ever, as of now
Neither are the greatest but are the best in their respective right. Best and greatest are two different things, and hockey being an evolutionary sport makes the best impossible to be of an older era unless the games progression stagnates
As long as people are questioning Crosby's overall offensive contribution then OV's passing will be questioned also.
It as simple as this, if you need a player to score a goal with a minute left because your team is down a goal, OV is your guy.
If you want to avoid being down a goal with a minute left, Crosby is your guy for the other 59 minutes.
A lot of those assists were on rebounds not passes. Doesn't change their value but positioning OV as anything above an average playmaker is sketchy.
You wan't sketchy you're looking at it, and making yourself a fine hypocrite in the process. Imagine downplaying hockey sense and reliably creating scoring plays because you don't like the method used or the face attached to it until you've convinced yourself it's "average" or otherwise undeserving of credit out of, I don't know, malice I guess.
Would you say the same about Crosby then? That saying goals > assists also downplays hockey sense and reliably creating scoring plays?
But there is a difference between creating a scoring play from getting a shot on net/driving the net vs. creating one from a pass.
The main point is their point totals should speak for themselves.
Or you could stop being a lazy contrarian look at the stats and then type "Ovechkin passes" into YouTube. If you don't think Ovi is a strong passer you've never watched him play.
I was just looking at NHL stats for a few big names(f.ex: Lafleur), and you notice right away that some of their best years happen a few seasons in. This really brought it home for me that regardless of who ends up with the most points at the end of their career between Ovi and Crosby, I think it's almost undeniable that we were robbed way too many games of Crosby at his prime between 2010-2013.
Crosby is not the greatest talent though, his ex teammate has even said this. Brooks Orpik himself said he's played with guys more talented that Sid but he's the hardest worker he's ever seen. Also, talent doesn't mean everything, a lot of talented guys have never fulfilled that, Alexei Kovalev comes to mind.
I don't think calling Crosby most talented does him justice. Great talent for sure but the NHL is full of them. He's intelligent, has an elite feel for the play and pace of the game, incredible balance and center of gravity, does everything well and is one of the games greatest clutch performers.
If your point is to say that OV could be closer to Crosby as a playmaker, there really is no basis in reality for this.
Whatever gap there is between the two in goal scoring ability, the gap is significantly larger in playmaking ability.
There are only a handful of players in league history who can claim to have lead the league in assists, in goals, and in points in both the playoffs and the regular season.
Crosby has a reasonable claim to be the 2nd best goalscorer of his era.
I don't think you read well, like at all. I said Ovechkin is a good passer, that's it, nowhere did I say this as a way to make his playmaking comparable. You've stated that he is a one dimensional player who isn't a good passer and he objectively isn't. If you don't think this you just don't watch Ovechkin or you're being biased. I assume it's the later.
I didn't state this. I think he is average at passing for a Top 6 forward. I think OV's point totals speak for themselves, as do Crosby's in terms of value they have brought to their teams. That one has more goals than the other is irrelevant in this specific comparison.
Two of the GOATs. While Crosby has caused me an unhealthy level of heartburn and indigestion over the years I think it's pretty cool that I got to watch two of the best compete against each other for over a decade, with one of them being on my favorite team.
That's the thing most fanboys don't get. I honestly can't wait 10-15 years down the line when they sit Crosby and Ovechkin in a room and talk to them for an hour. I bet you they'll both be laughing at this Sid vs Ovie stuff. It'll be awesome just to see these two guys chatting about the past.
Despite the rivalry there is a mutual respect between the two. They both know that good or bad, they will forever be linked and historians will look back on them with admiration and awe.
It's a shame that many are too busy bickering about their favorite players to do likewise.
Crosby has scored goals too you know and Ovie has gotten assists. You act like all of Ovies points are goals.
If you would like to include goals as being worth 1.6 to make it more fair then Crosby still wins.
Crosby: 904 GP, 690 G, 738 A = 1,428 PTS
PPG = 1.58
Ovie: 1,046 GP, 1,022 G, 532 A = 1,554 PTS
PPG = 1.49
Separate names with a comma.