Sick of Ovechkin-bashing on commentary

[MotorMaster]

karma?

 

[Tweed]

I guess this thread need some stats

Crosby, all playoffs
1st round 0.521 gpg, 1.458 ppg
Later rounds 0.316 gpg, 0.882 ppg

Crosby, 2010-2016
1st round 0.407 gpg, 1.296 ppg
Later rounds 0.229 gpg, 0.571 ppg

Ovechkin, all playoffs
1st round 0.434 gpg, 0.925 ppg
2nd round 0.581 gpg, 1.065 ppg

Ovechkin, 2010-2016
1st round 0.375 gpg, 0.750 ppg
2nd round 0.417 gpg, 0.792 ppg

This year is the first time in forever Crosby is having decent numbers outside of the 1st round. The last time I think he was ppg or better in a series outside of the 1st round was the ECF against Carolina in 2009.

I have no opinion in this debate, but I should point out that you can't compare all of Sid's "Later rounds" (ie. 2nd + 3rd + 4th rounds)... to Ovi's 2nd rounds. You should to do a straight-up 2nd round vs 2nd round comparison. Mainly because the 3rd and 4th round opponents, regardless of who we're talking about, Sid or Ovi, are almost always going to be a tougher/tighter draw, and their stats would reflect that.


Now with that said, I wouldn't be surprised if your point still stands. I just think you need to make a proper comparison, if you're going to use actual statistics. Any chance you can rework your numbers so we can see what's what?

Edit: Nevermind I see somebody else brought this up, and you addressed it, now that I've continued reading on in the thread. Thanks!

 

[gretskidoo]

You mean like Backstrom?

Didn't you know that Backstrom is pure garbage? 4th liner at best.

 

[Zuluss]

PPG is not a fact, it is a stat. A single statistic out of a thousand different statistics that tell us about the value of a player. Then, there are the things that are not quantifiable by statistics, like leadership.

Therefore, no.

Look, one guy is scoring at a 32 goals, 73 points clip if you prorate to 82 games.
Another one is scoring at a 13 goals, 56 points clip.

I'd say no amount of "other things" can close a gap that huge. Can you come up with an example when player A was outscoring player B by 30% and "out-goaling" him by 145% and still B was voted above A in the Hart voting?

If goals were the other way around, I could probably see this happening, though I cannot come up with an example on the spot. But 13g+43a vs. 32g+41a or any pro-rated version of that?

 

[Lebowski]

Look, one guy is scoring at a 32 goals, 73 points clip if you prorate to 82 games.
Another one is scoring at a 13 goals, 56 points clip.

I'd say no amount of "other things" can close a gap that huge. Can you come up with an example when player A was outscoring player B by 30% and "out-goaling" him by 145% and still B was voted above A in the Hart voting?

If goals were the other way around, I could probably see this happening, though I cannot come up with an example on the spot. But 13g+43a vs. 32g+41a or any pro-rated version of that?

You're also talking about a what, 20 games sample size?

 

[sr edler]

Without Malkin on his team Crosby would have 0 Cups too, we all know that.

That said, Ovechkin has never been a very well-rounded player and his body language is suspect sometimes. His teammates need to carry weight too though. Like Bäckis.

 

[Zuluss]

You're also talking about a what, 20 games sample size?

You can say that about each and every Conn Smythe win, too.

 

[Bloomfield*]

What about the lack of burakovsky, oshie, backstrom??

Where are those guys?

Umm backstrom has more points then ovechkin this playoffs

 

[Bloomfield*]

This is Ovie's favorite time of the year.

The world championships.

Exactly he rather play for Russia

 

[billybudd]

CRosby is Canadian and ovechkin isn't.

Crosby gets credit for winning. Ovechkin gets criticized for always losing to Crosby's teams. Is that fair? Not entirely, but such is life.

 

[gretskidoo]

Umm backstrom has more points then ovechkin this playoffs

Points only matter when a player you want to **** on lacks them.

 

[Bloomfield*]

Where is kuznetsov? The guy is garbage

 

[905PENS]

I kinda hate some of the announcers love affair with Crosby. It makes it so easy for people to hate him. The worst is Peter McGuire.... He's creepy step uncle obsessed with Crosby.

I've said it a few times.... Ovie is tbe the first to get blasted when the team isn't doing well. But, in my opinion... Alot of the blame falls on who's centering his line... The onus is on him to set ovie up for those world class shots. Its on him to be a bull behind the net with the puck etc.

I cannot HATE the guy, he's world class... And people hate Crosby because they're jelouis he isn't playing on their team. I refuse to hate on him for the same reason... I dislike his behind the scenes slashing late hits etc. But, its part of his game. He's a physical offensive juggernaut.

 

[ijuka]

Ovechkin is notoriously lazy defensively and he also is a poor leader. His poor attitude trickles down to the rest of his team. You only have to look at his teams' performance historically.

But, in my opinion... Alot of the blame falls on who's centering his line... The onus is on him to set ovie up for those world class shots. Its on him to be a bull behind the net with the puck etc.

This is a Max Pacioretty attitude. And guess who also is a playoff choker?

The truth is that you can be shut down in the playoffs if the team scouts you when you have this sort of a play style, and maybe such a one dimensional and easily shut down player who has to rely on his team to set everything up for him to be effective shouldn't be the captain.

 

[905PENS]

As for the points vs points... Definitely a valid argument, but those Stats do not take into account playing a complete 200 foot game and team leadership. Im not in the locker room before and after games. But, im willing to bet Crosby is the better leader... Just my opinion tho.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

You mean like Backstrom?

Backstrom doesn't have the alround game required hence the word "complete". He's a great playmaker but that's where the elite part ends.

 

[905PENS]

I still say, Iggy was one of the best captains of our time. Not to go off topic haha. He was a leader that lead by example, He had no issues dropping the gloves and playing some sweet chin music, would score goals get assists stop pucks with his face if he had too... And not often did you hear about him taking cheap hits.

 

[Riptide]

We get it Greg Millen.

CRosby is Canadian and ovechkin isn't.

He just said ovechkin has got to be the difference because Crosby is.

All ovechkin does is try and help his team win did he not watch game one? He even helped the caps answer tonight.

When the caps were eliminated the last two years in overtime to the rangers and pens did you know where ovechkin was? The bench.

Ovechkin gives his all. I can't even explain how mad Greg millen is making me I put it in mute for he first time in years.

Ovechkin is a super star... but that doesn't mean he doesn't need to be better - he does. And while he did help on the 2nd goal... it clearly wasn't enough. And after Pittsburgh scored their 4th he completely disappeared.

It has nothing to do with the fact that he's Russian and not Canadian, and has everything to do with the fact that A) he's not matching Crosby's impact and B) that his "all" isn't even close to enough.

 

[Riptide]

Good for you, I guess?

Ovechkin has been underwhelming in these POs and in the post season in general, not even a PPG career wise. When you get paid like the best and you wear the C for your team, you have the be the difference maker almost every night. Far too many times Ovie doesn't quite give it his all in all 3 zones of the rink so when he's not scoring at an all time great pace, he will get his share of criticism.

Especially as he rarely impacts the game if he's not producing. I mean yay he had an assist tonight... but outside of that, you didn't hear too much about him. That can't happen.

 

[Lebowski]

Backstrom doesn't have the alround game required hence the word "complete". He's a great playmaker but that's where the elite part ends.

Backstrom is an excellent two way player, and arguably could have been a Selke finalist this season.

 

[Phil McKraken]

What about the lack of burakovsky, oshie, backstrom??

Where are those guys?

Backstrom and Oshie are outscoring Ovechkin, and they were great last year too. Ironic that you're bashing them when complaining about people bashing Ovechkin.

 

[daver]

It's a tribute to the high standard OV set with his regular performances that he will garner criticism for not playing as well as a player who is arguably pacing for #5 all-time.

 

[Saku11]

If you have only one goal in two games agaisnt playoff MAF you rightfully deserve the bashing.

 

[TheNumber4]

Ridiculous to single Ovie out. But realize that Canadian Sports Media always says ******** ****. Why? Because they need to pick a narrative and stick with it. Happens to other star players as well. Right now they love pushing "whats going on with McDavid". To which they can be proven right or proven wrong, either way they think it's good TV.

 

[Paul4587]

Backstrom is the problem in Washington. He never steps up when he's needed in crucial games.