Should we trade for Puljujarvi?

[Predsanddead24]

This is devolving a bit from the Puljujarvi discussion but Smith has actually played at his normal level ever since he got paired with Grimaldi and Bonino. That line first got put together in the Anaheim game and has scored 7 goals and given up none despite having a pretty heavy defensive zone deployment in that seven game span (although that line didn't play together in one of the games so really sort of a six game span). Smith himself has 1G-3A in this time span which is pretty much the normal expectation out of him. Prior to being put on that line he was playing his off wing for the first time in a long time (if not his entire career) and struggled then was moved to basically a shutdown role where all in all he played well although not producing. It's undoubtedly been a a disappointing start for him, but he at least seems to be on track again.

 

[maplepred]

He gets all kind of credit because he generally gets 20-25 goals a season. David Poile is not going to trade a 20g+ roster player for a guy who can't even find a spot on a team that needed wingers so bad I probably could have gotten a contract and then ended up taking his ball and going back home.

If Edmonton was getting anywhere close to that type of player for him from GM's he would have been traded by now. He's the type of player they will end up trading a 4th and a B level prospect for, or another teams guy that hasn't worked out either. GM's contending for cups don't trade guys like Smith or Granlund for hopes and a prayer players because at the trade deadline they are just going to be trading again to try and get the same type of player back. It makes zero sense.

I get your point for sure. You are right that Poile just does not even think of this but just to entertain the idea as fans. I’m just looking at it in a different light I suppose. I see Smith as a guy that we lose at the end of season regardless so not much value other than rental for this season.
His point totals over last three seasons has been 29,51, and 38 which is not a second line player and also inconsistent. Plus this season he only has 1 goal and 5 points in 15 games. Our top six is full and without good linemates Smith just won’t produce kind of like we are seeing this season. I don’t dislike Smith I just think he could be expandable if necessary and it would not hurt this cup window or season. I am sure we could get Oilers to add as well which makes it even more tempting. Maybe a roster player.

Without Smith we still have:
JOFA
Granny Duchene Turris
Jarnkrok Bonino Grimaldi
Watson Sissons Salomaki

That doesn’t even include Puljujarvi not to mention lots of other good young guns in Milwaukee that could be getting NHL time.

 

[Armourboy]

I get your point for sure. You are right that Poile just does not even think of this but just to entertain the idea as fans. I’m just looking at it in a different light I suppose. I see Smith as a guy that we lose at the end of season regardless so not much value other than rental for this season.
His point totals over last three seasons has been 29,51, and 38 which is not a second line player and also inconsistent. Plus this season he only has 1 goal and 5 points in 15 games. Our top six is full and without good linemates Smith just won’t produce kind of like we are seeing this season. I don’t dislike Smith I just think he could be expandable if necessary and it would not hurt this cup window or season. I am sure we could get Oilers to add as well which makes it even more tempting. Maybe a roster player.

Without Smith we still have:
JOFA
Granny Duchene Turris
Jarnkrok Bonino Grimaldi
Watson Sissons Salomaki

That doesn’t even include Puljujarvi not to mention lots of other good young guns in Milwaukee that could be getting NHL time.

As Preds 24 stated Smith is putting up pretty decent numbers on that 3rd line with Bonino and Grimaldi. Smith is essentially a rental at this time, but cup contending teams just don't trade guys like Smith. Not only that but basically in this years line up you have traded Smith for Salomaki. I can understand some not being impressed by Smith, but I think we can all agree that he is far better than Salomaki, so on that reasoning alone you aren't going to move him.

Smith may in fact be on his final year with the team, but if you trade him then you are going to be looking to trade for someone to push Salomaki back out of the line up. Smith on the 3rd is what we have been pushing for for years, we finally got it and now people want to use it as a reason to now move him. Like I said none of it makes sense except for in the minds of fans on a site like this.

 

[maplepred]

As Preds 24 stated Smith is putting up pretty decent numbers on that 3rd line with Bonino and Grimaldi. Smith is essentially a rental at this time, but cup contending teams just don't trade guys like Smith. Not only that but basically in this years line up you have traded Smith for Salomaki. I can understand some not being impressed by Smith, but I think we can all agree that he is far better than Salomaki, so on that reasoning alone you aren't going to move him.

Smith may in fact be on his final year with the team, but if you trade him then you are going to be looking to trade for someone to push Salomaki back out of the line up. Smith on the 3rd is what we have been pushing for for years, we finally got it and now people want to use it as a reason to now move him. Like I said none of it makes sense except for in the minds of fans on a site like this.

As I said, I absolutely appreciate what you are saying. I guess I am thinking more hypothetically value wise it would be great and we could get by fine without Smith this season. Someone mentioned above we should get Toffoli at deadline who is a ton better than Smith.

I just look at a Puljujarvi plus for Smith as a deal that would easily end up being like an Erat for Forsberg type deal and it just had me salivated.

Also, about swapping out Smith for Salomaki I agree that definitely makes us look less deep on paper but don’t forget we have Puljujarvi then who probably gets the nod over Salomaki. I just feel people are to easy to “throw in the towel” on Puljujarvi’s upside. Some guys take a bit longer to defelop and he sure is looking good in Finland right now. Maybe even Tolvanen comes up in place of Smith add tears it up on a hot streak like he did in the KHL, doubtful though. Definitely options though. And maybe we get a decent roster player back from Oilers in the trade? Who knows.

I agree with you we keep Smith. If we do trade assets it’s most likely for help with third pair defense. Time will tell, who knows what Poile has up his sleeve but we do know that boy wants a Cup to complete his career, and he ain’t getting any younger.

 

[Predsanddead24]

As I said, I absolutely appreciate what you are saying. I guess I am thinking more hypothetically value wise it would be great and we could get by fine without Smith this season. Someone mentioned above we should get Toffoli at deadline who is a ton better than Smith.

I just look at a Puljujarvi plus for Smith as a deal that would easily end up being like an Erat for Forsberg type deal and it just had me salivated.

Also, about swapping out Smith for Salomaki I agree that definitely makes us look less deep on paper but don’t forget we have Puljujarvi then who probably gets the nod over Salomaki. I just feel people are to easy to “throw in the towel” on Puljujarvi’s upside. Some guys take a bit longer to defelop and he sure is looking good in Finland right now. Maybe even Tolvanen comes up in place of Smith add tears it up on a hot streak like he did in the KHL, doubtful though. Definitely options though. And maybe we get a decent roster player back from Oilers in the trade? Who knows.

I agree with you we keep Smith. If we do trade assets it’s most likely for help with third pair defense. Time will tell, who knows what Poile has up his sleeve but we do know that boy wants a Cup to complete his career, and he ain’t getting any younger.

Toffoli is a ton better than Smith? They're basically the exact same production wise over their careers and while Toffoli once looked like he'd be a perennial 30 goal player he's fallen pretty far from that. Toffoli is younger and has better offensive production this season but he's been an absolute mess defensively so much that he got healthy scratched. I don't particularly see that as much of an upgrade.

As far as Puljujarvi goes it's pretty doubtful he comes back to the NHL this season even if he's been traded so I wouldn't count on slotting him in this season. I'm also not particularly swayed by his stats in Finland as that's what you would expect for him to have a shot to make it to the NHL. Look at the rest of the top scorers in that league and its a bunch of AHL washouts or guys who played there entire career in Europe. He's performed well enough that he's worth a shot for a 2nd or 3rd round pick or another struggling prospect but that's really about it. I also wouldn't count on getting any roster player of value back from Edmonton since they don't really have anyone to spare as is.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

I like it.

Definitely not for granlund but for smith for sure. The guy gets all kinds of credit that I don’t understand. He’s “decent” if he has good linemates but I am sure we will not miss his one goal and four assists. Plus he almost certainly walks after season. Losing Smith right now does not really help or hurt our cup aspirations. Granlund I still think will turn it up a notch, he has proven he is super talented for many years in Minnesota.

Puljujarvi has loads of talent which is why he was drafted so high. He’s worth a shot.

Smith has always been a streaky scorer. You might not like his 1 goal and 4 assist in 15 games but you’ll like when he get 4 goals in 7 games

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

He gets all kind of credit because he generally gets 20-25 goals a season. David Poile is not going to trade a 20g+ roster player for a guy who can't even find a spot on a team that needed wingers so bad I probably could have gotten a contract and then ended up taking his ball and going back home.

If Edmonton was getting anywhere close to that type of player for him from GM's he would have been traded by now. He's the type of player they will end up trading a 4th and a B level prospect for, or another teams guy that hasn't worked out either. GM's contending for cups don't trade guys like Smith or Granlund for hopes and a prayer players because at the trade deadline they are just going to be trading again to try and get the same type of player back. It makes zero sense.

It's the right sentiment from the Nashville perspective, but bottom line is Puljujarvi is just better than you are saying, and WILL fetch a better return. And Edmonton knows it and is holding out for that return. They will get it. Not from us. But his draft pedigree and his lights-out SM-Liiga season is going to ensure they get it.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Smith has always been a streaky scorer. You might not like his 1 goal and 4 assist in 15 games but you’ll like when he get 4 goals in 7 games

The nice thing about Smith is that even if his scoring charts out as being "streaky", I don't feel like his effort is. He's just about as involved as ever, whether the puck is going in or not. That makes him easy to like.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Toffoli is a ton better than Smith? They're basically the exact same production wise over their careers and while Toffoli once looked like he'd be a perennial 30 goal player he's fallen pretty far from that. Toffoli is younger and has better offensive production this season but he's been an absolute mess defensively so much that he got healthy scratched. I don't particularly see that as much of an upgrade.

Toffoli is more what I'd categorize as a soft scorer. He scores at a decent-ish clip like Smith maybe, but if he's not scoring he's useless. Whereas Smith, even if he's not scoring, is generally playing a solid game.

 

[Predsanddead24]

The nice thing about Smith is that even if his scoring charts out as being "streaky", I don't feel like his effort is. He's just about as involved as ever, whether the puck is going in or not. That makes him easy to like.

One thing I noticed when looking through Smith's stats yesterday is that he actually has the lowest GA/60 on the team 5 v 5 and has only been on the ice for 3 GA at even strength all season (although he was on the ice for a shorthanded goal against too). That's with a career low offensive zone start % for him as well, which has been especially low since he got moved down a line. Obviously that is somewhat a team stat, but it does suggest he's embraced the role he was given when he got moved into more of a defensive role. The lack of offensive production has been disappointing for sure, but he has been playing well despite it and now the point production seems to have started to come back again.

Toffoli is more what I'd categorize as a soft scorer. He scores at a decent-ish clip like Smith maybe, but if he's not scoring he's useless. Whereas Smith, even if he's not scoring, is generally playing a solid game.

Toffoli really broke out and was great in their last Cup run then followed that up with a couple seasons where he looked to be developing into a solid top line player. Since then though he's really struggled a lot and doesn't seem to be the same player. Most notably is that he used to have an above average two way game, but seems to have abandoned that aspect of his game entirely. Some of that may be situational as the Kings as a whole have struggled, but I'm still not really sure what to think of Toffoli. He could turn it around in a new environment, but he could have also just been a flash in the pan that never reaches what was once his potential. To bring this back to why we're talking about Toffoli to begin with I think that making multiple deals that amount to Smith+prospects for Toffoli+Puljujarvi while probably even value overall is mostly just making changes for the sake of making changes, and with the team performing how it is at the moment it doesn't seem worth it to upset the balance of the team.

 

[maplepred]

I guess Smith and toffoli are a lot more comparable than I thought, I did not realize Toffoli's numbers at that low, I thought he was better to be honest. Maybe because he plays on an awful team, I wonder if those numbers would improve on our team?

I think though what I meant more than anything, is I am totally fine with moving Smith in a deal for Puljujarvi PLUS, and then somehow acquiring Toffoli as someone mentioned above. We do not lose much of a beat in getting Toffoli in replacing Smith, plus we come out with Puljujarvi. Maybe just a pipe dream though.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

it's pretty sad a thread pertaining to acquiring puljujarvi has 5 pages. come on guys.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Yeah, at this point, everyone has chimed in.

Closed.