Should the Canucks regret trading Schneider?

[SladeWilson23]

In trades such as these the team that gets the quality player wins the trade for 4 -5 years and then the team who got the high end draft pick wins when that player develops.

The Canucks got Ryan Miller who is 90% as good as Schneider so I would argue its worked out great for them as Horvat at 19 is already an NHL regular on a good squad.

The Devils unfortunately have done nothing with Schneider. He was 27 with an excellent contract when he first donned the uniform. Now he is nearing 29 with a 7mil dollar 6 year contract starting.

27 year old 4mil dollar Schneider is worth far more than the 29 year old 7mil dollar Schneider.

Vancouver has come out way ahead on this , but at the time of the trade it was fair for both sides. Too bad the Devils couldnt get a contending team in front of him.

Schneider makes $6m starting next year, not $7m.

 

[NYRangerFan*]

Schneider makes $6m starting next year, not $7m.

Big difference. You guys still got robbed. Devils could have used that 9th pick to add a prospect, instead they trade it for an overrated goalie

 

[Fear the Wushu]

Big difference. You guys still got robbed. Devils could have used that 9th pick to add a prospect, instead they trade it for an overrated goalie

Not by Devils fans. I feel we rate him properly, he can be placed anywhere from the 8th to 10th best goalie in the league, who gets absolutely abysmal help from our offense. He also has to work with an extremely young defensive core.

 

[NYRangerFan*]

Not by Devils fans. I feel we rate him properly, he can be placed anywhere from the 8th to 10th best goalie in the league, who gets absolutely abysmal help from our offense. He also has to work with an extremely young defensive core.

By the time the Devils get good again, he will decline. He isn't winning anything for NJ

 

[MikeK]

Big difference. You guys still got robbed. Devils could have used that 9th pick to add a prospect, instead they trade it for an overrated goalie

Overrated is subjective. I think Schneider is a top goalie in the league. The difference in todays game now is that you can't get by with just a great goalie anymore. There are just way too many good players around and most teams ice a competitive team. You need a complete team to be able to distance yourself from the pack. Yesteryear we saw teams ride a superstar goalie into places they had no business being but that time is long gone. That brings up the question as to why NJ even made that deal. Look at them now. Schneider is no spring chicken and by the time they get their team together Schneider will likely be past his prime. Like I've said before, Vancouver is a better team today having made that deal. Horvat is a legit NHL top prospect.

 

[drax0s]

I liked Schneider and would have loved for him to have come back via Free Agency (Vancouver would have without question won the trade in that case), but I think it was even. The Devils got some stability in net after some growing pains and Vancouver got Horvat who's looking great at 19. I *might* give a slight edge to Vancouver because we're not missing the asset we gave up -- we're fine in goal right now. The Devils, however, definitely are lacking prospects and Nichushkin or Domi would have been a solid pickup for them.

That said, my answer would probably be different if Miller didn't happen and Lack and Markstrom were looking rough as a tandem.

 

[Pip]

Obviously

 

[Kimota]

Considering all the garbage stuff that happened with idiot Gillis, Nucks fans must feel like Miller is a Godsend. Funny how things fix themself out sometimes.

 

[TOML]

No, simply because by the time the Canucks are through with their rebuild and Horvat his his prime, Schneider will be pretty much done.

Not sure why this article came out now though. Like, bored or something?

 

[SladeWilson23]

Big difference. You guys still got robbed. Devils could have used that 9th pick to add a prospect, instead they trade it for an overrated goalie

It is a big difference. It's $1m dollars LESS and one MORE season.

We would not have been in better shape with Nichushkin and no Schneider than we currently are.

By the time the Devils get good again, he will decline. He isn't winning anything for NJ

Neither you nor me know what the Devils will look like next year let alone 2, 3, 4, or 5 years from now.

We could very well be back in the playoffs next year. There's 2 reasons why.

1. We have a lot of roster openings to fill and a lot of cap space to do it.

2. We have one of the best groups of young defensemen in the league (who are still developing with them about ready to enter their primes), and have a bunch of really good defensive prospects still waiting in the pipeline.

And it's not like we have Schneider signed until he's 40. He's signed until 36 which is still basically a prime age for a goalie. So we have 7 prime years to build a team around him and our great young defense.

And all it takes is 1 or 2 really good drafts to fill the Devils forward cupboard.

Overrated is subjective. I think Schneider is a top goalie in the league. The difference in todays game now is that you can't get by with just a great goalie anymore. There are just way too many good players around and most teams ice a competitive team. You need a complete team to be able to distance yourself from the pack. Yesteryear we saw teams ride a superstar goalie into places they had no business being but that time is long gone. That brings up the question as to why NJ even made that deal. Look at them now. Schneider is no spring chicken and by the time they get their team together Schneider will likely be past his prime. Like I've said before, Vancouver is a better team today having made that deal. Horvat is a legit NHL top prospect.

We made the deal because we needed a goalie. The Devils have a lot of time to get a good team in front of him.

 

[Rebuilt]

By the time the Devils get good again, he will decline. He isn't winning anything for NJ

I tried to tell them this but they wont listen. The trade was fair but since that point in time the Devils have wasted 2 years of his prime and wont be able to take advantage of him for years while they rebuild.

They need to trade him NOW to get something of value back.

 

[Pip]

Considering all the garbage stuff that happened with idiot Gillis, Nucks fans must feel like Miller is a Godsend. Funny how things fix themself out sometimes.

Miller hasn't been good this season, really other than the past few games where he's been excellent, miller has been among the worst starting goalies in the league.

 

[MikeK]

I tried to tell them this but they wont listen. The trade was fair but since that point in time the Devils have wasted 2 years of his prime and wont be able to take advantage of him for years while they rebuild.

They need to trade him NOW to get something of value back.

There are only a few teams who need a #1 goalie or would be interested in such a deal and I doubt Schneider agrees to waive his NTC to go to any of them. Schneider will be 29 in March. People forget that he was a late bloomer. He isn't some 24yr old goalie just coming into his own. He is at the peak of his player career and will likely be long past his prime when NJ is able to compete with the top teams. Lou is/was a great GM in his day but I wonder if that Schneider trade was a bad move. There were other avenues to take to fill that position. Trading away a #9 pick which turned out to be Horvat for Vancouver was a bad move. My opinion though.

 

[SladeWilson23]

I tried to tell them this but they wont listen. The trade was fair but since that point in time the Devils have wasted 2 years of his prime and wont be able to take advantage of him for years while they rebuild.

They need to trade him NOW to get something of value back.

Trading Schneider makes us worse. And rebuilding doesn't take that long if done right.

There are only a few teams who need a #1 goalie or would be interested in such a deal and I doubt Schneider agrees to waive his NTC to go to any of them. Schneider will be 29 in March. People forget that he was a late bloomer. He isn't some 24yr old goalie just coming into his own. He is at the peak of his player career and will likely be long past his prime when NJ is able to compete with the top teams. Lou is/was a great GM in his day but I wonder if that Schneider trade was a bad move. There were other avenues to take to fill that position. Trading away a #9 pick which turned out to be Horvat for Vancouver was a bad move. My opinion though.

Long past his prime? 36 is still a prime age for a goalie. And that's when his contract will be over. The Devils won't need the full 7 years to rebuild. I'm willing to bet the Devils will be back to a playoff / contending team by the time he's 32 or 33.

 

[Pure West]

Of course the Canucks regret it. I'd rather have a 28 year old Schneider than a 34 year old Miler in net, considering both are making the same money and Schneider was phenomenal as a Canuck....and appears to be giving the Devils a reasonable chance despite many deficiencies.

Horvat has been ok, or at least ok for his age. He has NHL size and was winning faceoffs (although the faceoff % has been in significant decline) but hasn't exactly been a force out there. He's been the team's 4th best centre in an organization without a lot of depth up the middle....or even any push from younger forwards on the farm. He was more or less gifted his spot. He's only 19, so perhaps down the road he will become an impact player, but at this point I'd hardly say he's been worth one of the better goalies in the league just at the beginning of his prime.

 

[MikeK]

Of course the Canucks regret it. I'd rather have a 28 year old Schneider than a 34 year old Miler in net, considering both are making the same money and Schneider was phenomenal as a Canuck....and appears to be giving the Devils a reasonable chance despite many deficiencies.

Horvat has been ok, or at least ok for his age. He has NHL size and was winning faceoffs (although the faceoff % has been in significant decline) but hasn't exactly been a force out there. He's been the team's 4th best centre in an organization without a lot of depth up the middle....or even any push from younger forwards on the farm. He was more or less gifted his spot. He's only 19, so perhaps down the road he will become an impact player, but at this point I'd hardly say he's been worth one of the better goalies in the league just at the beginning of his prime.

Gifted a spot? Players are not gifted spots in today's game, especially in Canadian markets. Horvat is only 19yrs old and already an NHL regular. Earned and deserved. Where he is at 19 is very impressive. Few 19yr olds have his size and ability let along have the ability to hold down an NHL roster spot on a playoff team. Horvat is a legit to prospect and will be one of Vancouver's next core pieces. Most hockey fans would happily take Miller + Horvat over Schneider + nobody every day of the week.

 

[MikeK]

Trading Schneider makes us worse. And rebuilding doesn't take that long if done right.



Long past his prime? 36 is still a prime age for a goalie. And that's when his contract will be over. The Devils won't need the full 7 years to rebuild. I'm willing to bet the Devils will be back to a playoff / contending team by the time he's 32 or 33.

36 is not a prime age for a goalie. Look around the NHL right now. How many of the top goalies are 35+? The answer is zero. There isn't even a top goalie over 32. Not sure why you have this idea that goalies keep going into their late 30's.

 

[SladeWilson23]

36 is not a prime age for a goalie. Look around the NHL right now. How many of the top goalies are 35+? The answer is zero. There isn't even a top goalie over 32. Not sure why you have this idea that goalies keep going into their late 30's.

You do realize Rinne, Luongo, and Lundqvist are over 32, right? I'd definitely call those guys "Top Goalies".

And goalie who have played at 36, and still were able to play at their normal career numbers is a long list.

 

[Pure West]

Gifted a spot? Players are not gifted spots in today's game, especially in Canadian markets. Horvat is only 19yrs old and already an NHL regular. Earned and deserved. Where he is at 19 is very impressive. Few 19yr olds have his size and ability let along have the ability to hold down an NHL roster spot on a playoff team. Horvat is a legit to prospect and will be one of Vancouver's next core pieces. Most hockey fans would happily take Miller + Horvat over Schneider + nobody every day of the week.

Him simply being on the roster isn't proof that he earned it. He was injured in the preseason, got a conditioning stint in the AHL (0 points on it by the way) so I see little to indicate that he came into camp and earned his spot, only that the spot was his to lose in the first place. Clearly, the organization felt it would be better if he developed at the NHL level in a limited role than going back to junior which there may be some merit to. It also doesn't hurt his case that there isn't much depth in the organization at the center position. Had he been AHL-eligible like his fellow Canuck first rounder Shinkaruk I think chances are he's in the AHL.

Anyways, the future may make it worth it, and having a good prospect + Miller may be better than just the better goaltender and no prospect. However, I don't see how anyone can say that Horvat's play to this point (or purely the fact that he has a roster spot) is proof that the trade is worth it.

 

[MikeK]

You do realize Rinne, Luongo, and Lundqvist are over 32, right? I'd definitely call those guys "Top Goalies".

And goalie who have played at 36, and still were able to play at their normal career numbers is a long list.

Lundqvist and Rinne are not "over 32". They are 32... Luongo will be 36 in April and I would argue that he is no longer a top goalie in the league. Lundqvist shouldn't even be mentioned because Schneider isn't even in the same league as he. All I was saying is that Top goalies are very rarely in their late 30's. Schneider will be no different. He's a top goalie right now but he is not all world nor will he be a top NHL goalie deep into his 30's. Mark my words on that one.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I don't understand the logic here.

Schneider is a good goaltender. Good goaltenders help hockey teams win games. Hockey teams want to win as many games as possible.

Explain to me why locking up a good young goaltender is a bad idea?

 

[SEALBound]

It's still baffling to me how Vancouver traded him instead of Luongo. After that who ordeal with Luongo. Baffling.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Lundqvist and Rinne are not "over 32". They are 32... Luongo will be 36 in April and I would argue that he is no longer a top goalie in the league. Lundqvist shouldn't even be mentioned because Schneider isn't even in the same league as he. All I was saying is that Top goalies are very rarely in their late 30's. Schneider will be no different. He's a top goalie right now but he is not all world nor will he be a top NHL goalie deep into his 30's. Mark my words on that one.

I definitely think you're being nitpicky here. Luongo is still a very good goalie. Ryan Miller may not be a top goalie, but he's still putting up his normal Miller numbers.

I'm also not even trying to compare Schneider to Lundqvist.

But you're not even understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying goalies generally still in their primes in their late 30's barring injury. Or they're at least putting up numbers that are similar to their prime career numbers. I said NOTHING of being top goalies. YOU did. I can assure you that several (not all) of the top goalies who are young now, will still be good at 35 or 36.

If you wanna make a prediction about Schneider, fine. But you seem to not realize I'm talking about the FINAL year on his deal. The Devils still have plenty of time to take advantage of his prime. Also, because he was a late bloomer, his body hasn't been under the same stress other goalies have been.

I don't understand the logic here.

Schneider is a good goaltender. Good goaltenders help hockey teams win games. Hockey teams want to win as many games as possible.

Explain to me why locking up a good young goaltender is a bad idea?

People just have an improper opinion on the Devils future. They don't seem to understand that the Devils needed a goalie. So we went out and got one. Nichushkin is gonna be a very good player imo, but I'd rather we have Schneider and no Nichushkin than have Nichushkin and no Schneider.

 

[skywarp75]

I cant imagine any real Canuck fan actually would prefer Cory + our typical useless depth player, over BO HORVAT. We still have good goaltending. We havent drafted a player like Horvat in many many many years, if ever.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I cant imagine any real Canuck fan actually would prefer Cory + our typical useless depth player, over BO HORVAT. We still have good goaltending. We havent drafted a player like Horvat in many many many years, if ever.

Lol?

Pretty sure anyone who knows anything about hockey would rather have an elite goaltender like Schneider over a potential 3rd line center.

If the Canucks had Nichushkin I could see an argument being made, but even then so, Schneider should've never been traded.